Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: squale on November 04, 2007, 03:26:31 pm
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I have a 2004 Sundance Altamar spa. I keep the water temp setting at 101 degrees and the tub is inside my garage (non-heated garage). I live in northern NJ. For some reason, I put my spa in ECONOMY mode, but then the next day I go and check the spa and it is back in STANDARD mode. I am not sure why this is happening, the power is NOT going out in the house so it can't be resetting the spa.
My spa is setup to run self cleaning 4 times a day for 1/2 hour each time. At 6am, 12pm, 6pm, 12am for 1/2 hour each time.
Also what I don't like is that once the water reaches it's set 101 temperature then the CD Ozonator shuts off and the circ pump also stops running. Does anybody know why this is?
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I don't have ozone, and haven't too much experience with economy mode on my 2003 Optima, but if you basic operation is similar to mine, your circulation pump should run 24 X 7 unless you have it programmed not to. Mine always runs. Sounds like your filtering cycles are pretty similar to mine in length and frequency.
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I am still pretty new at this, but I think the Ozonater shuts off with the circ pump when the set temp is reached because they produce heat. I might be wrong...
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I can't tell you why your controller is not staying on economy mode (maybe needs a battery) but as far as your circ pump - look at your settings, you may have them turning off.
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nope the circ pump is set to run 24 hours a day, but it turns off when the set temp is reached. Basically when the set temp is reached the circ pump, heater, and Ozonator all turn off, and the water just sits stagnent. And since the tub is in my garage, the set temp usually is maintained without much use of the heater.
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Is it possible that you have too many filter cycles set for Economy mode so the tub goes back to standard to accomodate all of the filtration cycles? My tub doesn't have a circ pump, but in economy mode it will only heat while the filtration cycle is running. Maybe there isn't anything wrong at all, it might just be a conflict with what
the tub can do in Economy mode vs what you have it set to do. :-/
It took me a while to understand the different modes on my tub... Just a thought.
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There are only two reasons why your circ pump should stop working if set for 24/7 operation....your spa is in economy mode and the set temp has been reached or the water temp is two degrees higher than the set temp and summer logic takes over.
One thing about Sundance Spas with the LCD controllers....if you cut power to the spa, it will act as if in economy mode until it resets itself at midnight so your circ pump will stop working when the set temp is reached. After midnight if in standard mode, the spa acts normally. Have you cut the power to your spa? If not it seems that your spa is resetting itself and you may need a service call.
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Do you by any chance participate in the "Power Company" program that allows them to "throttle back" power from certain areas at certain peak times? If so, I would speculate that your hot tub is on one of those circuits that the power company "conditions" (i.e. cuts power too) during certain periods of time. This would easily explain the condition and would also explain why you don't see anything else in the house loose power (clock, etc).
As for 24-hour circulation.... There's a REASON it's called a 24-hour pump. It operates 24x7x365. At least mine does. Now, the ozonator does kick in and out based on the tubs own logic butthe pump itself runs 100% of the time. Do you have the same (24hr pump not working) problem when the tub is running under "standard" mode?
I have a 2003 Jacuzzi J-370 which uses the same (pump & electronic controls) components as the Sundance models of most years.
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yes even under standard mode the circ pump DOES NOT work when the temp is at the set temp. I think the circ pump, the heater and the ozonator are all tied together or something..
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I'm having a similiar issue with my new Artesian. The circ pump ONLY runs during filtration cycles. The whole reason I bought a tub with a circ pump is too have it run 24 hours a day. The dealer sent a service guy out Friday, checked it out and left note saying circ pump was running fine. Ummm, hello, you checked it during a filter cycle! I'm confused because the tub is supposed to come from the factory with the circ. pump running 24 hours a day. I can program the filter cycles to last 24 hours a day, but I don't really want the ozonator to run 24 hours a day(won't last long that way). I noticed inside the control panel there are switches with off/on positions. The one for the circ. pump says non/circ with filter. The switch is in the circ with filter position. It has Balboa controls. Does anyone know if switching the position of the switch will correct the problem?
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My power company has my a/c hooked up the way ndabunka describes, but only the a/c- not the spa. As far as I know, they don't offer the service for spas, and if they did it would be of dubious value in this climate, as they only care about power consumption in summer when everyone has their a/c blasting. Most people in this area heat with natural gas, so the electric demand is way lower in winter.
Must not be enought concern (yet) for them to get intested in hot tubs in winter, but I suspect the same principle could apply. I'd never allow it, since I don't like the idea of them not powering my spa in the winter. In the summer it draws minimal power so then the power company doesn't care to bother.
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yes even under standard mode the circ pump DOES NOT work when the temp is at the set temp. I think the circ pump, the heater and the ozonator are all tied together or something..
This sounds like what happens when you cut power to the spa and start back up. The circ pump won't work (and thus the ozonator) until heat is called for. Normally this would reset at midnight. For instance, yesterday I swapped out my filters. I shut the power to the spa to do this. When I turned back on the circ pump wouldn't turn on unless my water temp dropped more than two degrees from my set temp and would stay on with the heater until the water temp reached the set temp...then the circ pump would shut down again. Fast forward to this morning...everything working as it should. This is normal.
As for the circ pump, heater and ozonator being tied together...the circ pump filters, delivers heated water when needed and delivers ozone when main pumps are not turned on.
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so you are saying since I have an Ozonator, if the circ pump is on then I will see those little ozone air bubbles coming up in the water right?
because when I DON'T SEE those little air bubbles, I also don't hear any pump running if I put my ear to the cabinet. But when the bubbles start coming up (usually when the heater is also on), then I hear the pump running if I put my ear to the cabinet.
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btw, yesterday I did clean my filter. I cut power to the spa to do this. When I turned the spa back on, it turned on saying it was in "standard" mode. I put the pumps running on high for about an hour to add some chemicals and such, then once the pumps turned off after their 6:00pm filtration cycle, I then put the tub into "Economy" mode. This morning, I opened the cover and found the tub in "Standard" mode again and NO little ozone bubbles were coming up. Of course being the tub is indoors the set temp was reached so the heater was off, but I would still think if it says it's in "Standard" mode then the circ pump should be running. But I didn't hear anything running when putting my ear to the cabinet so I assume the circ pump was NOT running.
why does the tub reset itself at midnight?
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No I don't believe I am under one of these programs. Nothing else in the house ever just shuts itself off unless of course I loss power to the entire house (which does happen here and there). But when I installed the tub I just threw anohter 60amp breaker into my house panel so I don't see how it would be possible for the power company to just shut off that breaker and nothing else, unless they came in and did some sort of seperate wiring to just that breaker from the pole.
Do you by any chance participate in the "Power Company" program that allows them to "throttle back" power from certain areas at certain peak times? If so, I would speculate that your hot tub is on one of those circuits that the power company "conditions" (i.e. cuts power too) during certain periods of time. This would easily explain the condition and would also explain why you don't see anything else in the house loose power (clock, etc).
As for 24-hour circulation.... There's a REASON it's called a 24-hour pump. It operates 24x7x365. At least mine does. Now, the ozonator does kick in and out based on the tubs own logic butthe pump itself runs 100% of the time. Do you have the same (24hr pump not working) problem when the tub is running under "standard" mode?
I have a 2003 Jacuzzi J-370 which uses the same (pump & electronic controls) components as the Sundance models of most years.
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Just a couple thoughts, do I need to leave the tub in "Standard" mode before I go to bed so that once midnight comes around, the tub is already in "Standard" mode. Then in the morning I can switch the tub to "Economy" mode and then it should stay in "Economy" mode here on out even over night?
and just thinking to myself.. since the tub is indoors and it usually doesn't really fall much below set temp... if I leave the tub in economy mode, then basically the circ pump and ozonator won't operate until my filter cycles (because the tub really doesn't lose much heat with the cover on and being it's inside my garage). Now since I want the circ pump and ozonator to turn on and off more frequently, should I always keep the tub in Standard mode instead?
and also when I'm in the tub and if the set temp is higher than the current temp of the tub, the heater and OZONATOR both are on while the pumps are both running.. is this bad being that the tub is producing ozone? bad for my health?
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I have a 2007 Sundance Optima. The way the dealer/service guy explained it to me was that the circ pump runs 24/7 in standard mode unless the temp gets too high then it shuts off because the pump produces heat. This is called something like summer-mode. The ozonator will not run when jets or blower are on. In economy mode, the circ pump will only come on when heat is needed or during one of the four cycles. I don't know why the economy mode keeps resetting to standard mode. I have only used standard mode. If heater doesn't need to run very much, standard mode may be your best bet anyway.
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okay did a little more experimenting..
my settings for the circ pump are as follows..
start time = 12:00 am Duration = 24
my filter cycles are as follows:
6:00am, 12:00am, 6:00pm, 12:00am Duration = 30 minutes for ALL cycles.
So I leave the tub at a set temp of 101 degrees. Since the tub is in my garage it doesn't lose heat easily and pretty much stays at 101 degrees without the heater really having to kick on much. What I noticed is that when in either Economy or Standard mode, when the tub is at the set temp point the heater is off, and both the ozonator AND circ pump are off. From what I read this is not correct, the circ pump and ozonator should always been running no matter if you are in Economy or Standard mode.
So what I did for a test tonight was to go into the settings and change the Circ pump start time to 9:30pm and the Duration to 23 hours. It was 9:25pm when I changed the settings. The circ pump and ozonator where both off. The tub was in Economy mode. I then waited until 9:30pm and sure enough as soon as it hit the time the Both the circ pump and the ozonator turned on. Then I switched the mode to "Standard" mode and the circ pump and ozonator are Still running. I switched back to "Economy" mode and they are still running. So it appears to be working correctly now.
Now the big test is to see what happens tonight at midnight. Will the tub automatically switch back to "Standard" mode from the set "Economy" mode I put it on before midnight? Will the circ pump and ozonator still be on after midnight? I wonder..
Why could this be functioning this way? is it a bad control board or chip? could it just be a simple jumper setting somewhere that is off?
Thanks again, you have been a HUGE help!
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okay did a little more experimenting..
my settings for the circ pump are as follows..
start time = 12:00 am Duration = 24
my filter cycles are as follows:
6:00am, 12:00am, 6:00pm, 12:00am Duration = 30 minutes for ALL cycles.
So I leave the tub at a set temp of 101 degrees. Since the tub is in my garage it doesn't lose heat easily and pretty much stays at 101 degrees without the heater really having to kick on much. What I noticed is that when in either Economy or Standard mode, when the tub is at the set temp point the heater is off, and both the ozonator AND circ pump are off. From what I read this is not correct, the circ pump and ozonator should always been running no matter if you are in Economy or Standard mode.
So what I did for a test tonight was to go into the settings and change the Circ pump start time to 9:30pm and the Duration to 23 hours. It was 9:25pm when I changed the settings. The circ pump and ozonator where both off. The tub was in Economy mode. I then waited until 9:30pm and sure enough as soon as it hit the time the Both the circ pump and the ozonator turned on. Then I switched the mode to "Standard" mode and the circ pump and ozonator are Still running. I switched back to "Economy" mode and they are still running. So it appears to be working correctly now.
Now the big test is to see what happens tonight at midnight. Will the tub automatically switch back to "Standard" mode from the set "Economy" mode I put it on before midnight? Will the circ pump and ozonator still be on after midnight? I wonder..
Why could this be functioning this way? is it a bad control board or chip? could it just be a simple jumper setting somewhere that is off?
Thanks again, you have been a HUGE help!
Good job.
By changing the start time of the circ pump, you have changed the reset time so 9:30 is now your reset time until you change it back to midnight (if you wish). With the duration set at 23 hours, your circ pump will stop working from 8:30 to 9:30. The economy mode should not change automatically to standard mode. It looks like it made it through one reset point without changing in your 9:30 experiment so maybe OK now. I believe that in economy mode the spa only heats during filtration cycles and thus the circ pump only comes on when the heat is on during these cycles. I have never run in economy mode so I don't have a lot of experience with it. The spa won't hold set temp in economy mode (at least not with the heater) and I keep my spa at temp so I don't use it.
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okay so you are saying 12:00am it won't reset anything? well how about when you disconnect the power then turn the power back on, you said it will reset at 12:00am. But why wouldn't it keep the new 9:30pm reset point after a power loss?
is there any reason why it would possible work now with 9:30pm instead of the default 12:00am circ pump start time? it just doesn't make sense to me!
oh and btw the circ pump WILL run even in Economy mode.
is it possible there is a jumper setting or something on the control board that is set wrong to change the normal operation of the circ pump?
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okay so you are saying 12:00am it won't reset anything? well how about when you disconnect the power then turn the power back on, you said it will reset at 12:00am. But why wouldn't it keep the new 9:30pm reset point after a power loss?
is there any reason why it would possible work now with 9:30pm instead of the default 12:00am circ pump start time? it just doesn't make sense to me!
oh and btw the circ pump WILL run even in Economy mode.
is it possible there is a jumper setting or something on the control board that is set wrong to change the normal operation of the circ pump?
The spa will reset at the start point of your circ pump operation. Normally this is set at midnight, but can be set to anytime. If you change it to 9:30 PM, this is your new reset point. You can make and keep this point at whatever time makes sense to you.
There is no reason why it would work at 9:30 and not at 12:00. I think your system may be OK now.
I don't have a good handle on economy mode except that it only heats during filtration cycles.
As far as I know, there is no setting to change the normal operation of the circ pump.
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what temp do you keep your spa water at at all times? you say you leave it in standard mode so just wondering.. I have been keeping mine at 101 and that's with Economy mode. since the spa is indoors, the water temp pretty much stays at 101 without the heater.. but now that it's starting to get cold here in NJ that might change, I would expect to see a little more heat loss.
is it bad for the heater to keep it in standard mode? and what if I wanted to keep the spa a little warmer, say at 103 degrees at all times? this is the temp I like to get in it at, and right now I have to go manually put the temp up higher about an hour before I want to use the spa..
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what temp do you keep your spa water at at all times? you say you leave it in standard mode so just wondering.. I have been keeping mine at 101 and that's with Economy mode. since the spa is indoors, the water temp pretty much stays at 101 without the heater.. but now that it's starting to get cold here in NJ that might change, I would expect to see a little more heat loss.
is it bad for the heater to keep it in standard mode? and what if I wanted to keep the spa a little warmer, say at 103 degrees at all times? this is the temp I like to get in it at, and right now I have to go manually put the temp up higher about an hour before I want to use the spa..
I suggest leaving it in standard mode. This is what most people do. I leave my temp set at 102 all year long. I like to set it and forget it.
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yeah I want to keep mine at like 103 but I'm afraid what the electric bill is going to look like, especially now that the weather is getting COLD here in northern Jersey..
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I don't think it will make too much difference, especially indoors like yours.
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okay but is it bad for the heater, other components, headrests, cover, etc. to continously keep the water at such a high temperature?
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okay but is it bad for the heater, other components, headrests, cover, etc. to continously keep the water at such a high temperature?
No problem for the heater, headrests, cover, etc to keep the water at 103.
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well I bumped the water temp up to 104, it was in standard mode prior to doing this and everything was working fine, the circ and ozonator was on. Once I bumped the temp up to 104 (it was at 101) then the heater also turned on which is fine. Then once it reached the set temp of 104 EVERYTHING turned off, even the circ pump and ozonator. Not sure why this is happening! The ozonator and circ pump should of stayed running and ONLY the heater should of turned off. Is this a faulty control board or chip or something? So I then switched the settings back for the circ pump so it turns on at midnight and runs for 24 hours in duration. I changed this at 11:55pm, waited five minutes and sure enough, at midnight the circ pump and ozonator turned back on. The tub is in standard mode right now. I wonder how long the circ pump and ozonator will stay on.. I think it might stay on until the heater has to kick on again, then once the set temp is reached I bet everything turns off again.. we will see...
just as a side note, this is a 2004 Sundance Altamar which comes standard with a dimming single color light. The dealer put in a Sunglow multi-color LED into the tub and also installed the Sunzone CD ozonator. Not sure if the dealer could of messed something up on the control board that would be effecting the circ pump such as the issues I am having?
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Anything is possible.
It isn't bad for the heater to be set to 104, by the way. To your skin there may be a lot of difference between 100 and 104, but not to the heater- it just runs a bit more to keep the water hotter. There should be no worries about keeping your spa at any temperature it's capable of being set- other than somewhat higher electric costs.
If you are convinced the spa isn't working as it should be, then perhaps a call to the dealer to discuss a possible service call is in order. If it's a defect(s) and you're under warranty, that should be that. At the very least they should be able to demonstrate to you how to set the thing, but I'm betting at this point you possibly have a flukey control board or something.
Your risk is that you have to pay for a service call if it turns out there isn't anything wrong. For the aggravation this appears to be causing you, I'd risk the service call.