Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: solo on September 07, 2007, 06:07:03 am
-
Every single spa dealership I have walked into does the following:
1. MSRP is $10,000 but
2. Our sale price is $8000
Now, I'm smart enough to know that NOBODY pasy MSRP for ANYTHING. For example, has anyone on this board ever paid full sticker price fpor a car?
So when the dealer does the above, my assumption is that his normal price is $8000. So if the first real price that he quotes you is $8000, how much can you expect to get off without it being a special case (like end of the year, closeout model, etc).
I want my dealer to make money, but I don't want to get raped. If my dealer makes $1000 on something he paid $5000 for, I think that this is more than fair for him.
So how much did you guys talk your sales rep down off the price? Not the MSRP, but the first price he quoted you? Again, I want to have reasonable proce expectations, but don't wish to be taken.
EDIT: It kind of bothers me that every time I talk to my Hot Springs Dealer (the last 2 phone calls), he asks me what price he quoted me. This makes me feel like he has lots of room to drop the price.
-
If you're smart enough to know that NOBODY ever pays MSRP for anything,(which isn't exactly true, btw), and you're smart enough to know exactly what a merchant can make a living on, ($1000 on a $5000 item), then you should be smart enough to figure out EXACTLY how much additional money they can drop the price.
-
"Hot tub purchasers: how much did you get off"
Well...I was excited about it but..... ;D ;D ;D ;D
OK, seriously... perceived value is the easiest and laziest way to show value. If they can't show you an invoice where someone recently paid that 10K, then that's not a discount. Ask them to show you an invoice of a recent sale.
Tell them you are not negotiating and you want their best price and if you are serious about the purchase, be prepared to buy or walk. Most dealers will throw in goodies as opposed to discounting as well.
"It kind of bothers me that every time I talk to my Hot Springs Dealer (the last 2 phone calls), he asks me what price he quoted me. This makes me feel like he has lots of room to drop the price."
Tell him it was $7000 and wait for his reaction... ;) Sounds a wee bit shady to me.
Steve
-
If you're smart enough to know that NOBODY ever pays MSRP for anything,(which isn't exactly true, btw), and you're smart enough to know exactly what a merchant can make a living on, ($1000 on a $5000 item), then you should be smart enough to figure out EXACTLY how much additional money they can drop the price.
WOW...Sounds like I struck a nerve with you. The post wasn't intended to be offensive. I am simply trying to get a good deal on a hot tub.
-
The original price we were quoted for our Piper Glen was 10K and that's what we paid, but we were able to get the steps, chems, cover lifter thrown in as well as a bar table with 4 stools that was in the showroom that we liked and was retailing for $400. We were happy with the deal.
-
We paid what the dealer quoted us, we did not haggle because we knew it was a good price, and that was the hot tub we wanted. I am of the old school that you only get what you pay for.
-
So how much did you guys talk your sales rep down off the price? Not the MSRP, but the first price he quoted you?
Any specific responses to this question will be completely irrelevant unless they went to that same dealer you're talking to.
I've worked for dealers who don't play the MSRP game. For them the answer may be that the dealer went down only a few hundred dollars AFTER being seriously pushed to do so or maybe not down at all because they give everyone a fair sale price and leave little room to negotiate. Another dealer may drop his pants after 20 seconds of conversation because he built in room to do so.
I'm certainly a fan of not leaving any money on the table. The key is to try to get him to lower and get to a point where you're satisfied you got his best deal. The problem is each dealer may be different so to hear that someone else got their dealer to lower his price on the same spa as you a certain amount means ZILCH unless it was the same dealer you're talking to.
-
Any specific responses to this question will be completely irrelevant unless they went to that same dealer you're talking to.
I agree with Spatech. Each dealer has their own way of making the deal. I liked how my dealer handled it on the second tub purchase. List price of $12,890.00 for an 06 Envoy with SpAudio II. Then a "Repeat Customer Discount" of $2000.00 for a sale price of $10,890.00. It was his first offer and I didn't haggle with him because I was satisfied with the discount and the price, I like the guy, and I wanted him to be my dealer again on the new tub.
BTW, the price included steps, covercradle II lift, chems and two Silver Ion cartridges)
(I'm bracing for everybody to tell me I got a bad deal! :( )
-
Update time.
I have my Hotsprings dealer down to $6995 on the Soveereign. Initial price quote was $7595.
Gonna take this back to the Sundance Dealer and see how far they will drop.
I'm still torn on which hot tub to get. Pretty sure I will be happy with either. So price might factor in.
-
Update time.
I have my Hotsprings dealer down to $6995 on the Soveereign. Initial price quote was $7595.
Gonna take this back to the Sundance Dealer and see how far they will drop.
I'm still torn on which hot tub to get. Pretty sure I will be happy with either. So price might factor in.
I am going out on a limb here!!
Not to sound bad, but the game you are playing is not one I like from consumers,when I get a person like yourself that I have worked with for awhile and trying to sell them a spa, and get what your are doing, I look them straight in the eye and say,this is the best price I can do for you, and I am 100% sure you will be happy with the product!! Silence! Its either a yes or no response from you. In other words take it or not cause its not going any lower, weather you walk or not.
So if the Sundance dealer comes down are you going to get in your car and drive back to the H.S dealer with the same and see what he will do?
To be honest if you walked on me I would probably be glad I am not saying you are this person! But a lot of times you are a customer a dealer does not want to sell a spa to.
-
When folks come to our stores, we give them our best and only offer. If they want to haggle, we tell them they have our best offer.
If they want a step or coverlifter "thrown" in, we offer to split the cost with them providing they pay in full and can take immediate delivery on the spa. It is called reciprocity: If I do this for you, are you willing to do this for me?
If a shopper just wants a handout, go to the welfare office.
Terminator
-
When folks come to our stores, we give them our best and only offer. If they want to haggle, we tell them they have our best offer.
If they want a step or coverlifter "thrown" in, we offer to split the cost with them providing they pay in full and can take immediate delivery on the spa. It is called reciprocity: If I do this for you, are you willing to do this for me?
If a shopper just wants a handout, go to the welfare office.
Terminator
We would work well together!!! ;)
-
Update time.
I have my Hotsprings dealer down to $6995 on the Soveereign. Initial price quote was $7595.
Gonna take this back to the Sundance Dealer and see how far they will drop.
I'm still torn on which hot tub to get. Pretty sure I will be happy with either. So price might factor in.
Now help me out. Why would a Sundance dealer care what a Hot Springs dealer can sell a Hot Springs spa for, I appreciate you are looking at both spas but they are different deals why not choose the spa you want and make your deal on that one.
-
I am going out on a limb here!!
Not to sound bad, but the game you are playing is not one I like from consumers,when I get a person like yourself that I have worked with for awhile and trying to sell them a spa, and get what your are doing, I look them straight in the eye and say,this is the best price I can do for you, and I am 100% sure you will be happy with the product!! Silence! Its either a yes or no response from you. In other words take it or not cause its not going any lower, weather you walk or not.
So if the Sundance dealer comes down are you going to get in your car and drive back to the H.S dealer with the same and see what he will do?
To be honest if you walked on me I would probably be glad I am not saying you are this person! But a lot of times you are a customer a dealer does not want to sell a spa to.
Sounds like you want the easy sale. I can't blame you. You want to sell to the guy that is gonna take your first quote and make you the most amount of money. I am just not that guy. I know that you as a dealer aren't going to give me a deal that is bad for your business. You might not make as much money on my sale as the next guys, but you are gonna make money. I leave it up to you to know what is good for your business.
But just as you would call my bluff, I doubt that this dealer is gonna be ready when I call his bluff. When I say to him "Show me the invoice for the last Sovereign you sold". Is he gonna whip out an invoice or is he gonna hem and haw about why he can't do that? I just want to know that I am getting a good deal. Not what I think is a good deal, but truly a good deal.
And here's the thing. The dealers are the ones that have made a game out of buying a spa. Most first quote MSRP and immediately knock off 20% from MSRP before the customer opens his mouth. Then, they end up selling the same spa at all different prices. If you don't like playing the negotiation game, just have set pricing. Quote every customer the same price on the same spa and stick to your pricing. I don't negotiate at Walmart. I don't negotiate at the grocery store. I know that these places have set pricing. But I feel as though the spa dealerships have made a game out of pricing and hence feel obligated to play the game.
Honestly, I don't like haggling either. I don't enjoy pitting one dealer against the other. But it's pretty much the only way to ensure that I am getting the best deal I can. I don't think anybody enjoys paying more for something than they have to.
-
Now help me out. Why would a Sundance dealer care what a Hot Springs dealer can sell a Hot Springs spa for, I appreciate you are looking at both spas but they are different deals why not choose the spa you want and make your deal on that one.
Guess what...the Hot Spings guy dropped his price as soon as he learned that I wet tested and was seriously considering a Sundance. On labor day, his best deal was $7200. Today, it was $6995.
Why does he care what Sundance can do? Because he wants to get the sale. He wants me to own a hotsprings not a sundance. It's called competition and competion generally drives prices down. It;s the basis of our free market economy.
I seriously and truly like both spas about equally. So I am going to make the best deal I can on both, then make my decision from there.
-
I understand that a Hot Springs Dealer wants to sell you a Hot Springs Spa in much the same way I am clear that Grant is buried in Grants tomb, but a dealer can only do what he can do based on HIS COSTS and not the cost of his competition. I have been taken to task here before but I simply believe the best way to deal is for both parties to be direct and upfront since you have a common goal in this case you both want to you own a new spa, you should be able to find something that works for the both of you as long as both parties are realistic and fair.
-
I understand that a Hot Springs Dealer wants to sell you a Hot Springs Spa in much the same way I am clear that Grant is buried in Grants tomb, but a dealer can only do what he can do based on HIS COSTS and not the cost of his competition. I have been taken to task here before but I simply believe the best way to deal is for both parties to be direct and upfront since you have a common goal in this case you both want to you own a new spa, you should be able to find something that works for the both of you as long as both parties are realistic and fair.
Have I been unfair? I told him up front that the MAX I can spend on a spa is $7000. That doesn't mean that I want to spend $7000 if I can get it for $6500. I have been truthful with my dealer in every way. I like his spa and I like his competitors spa. I am going to buy the one that I feel offers me the best deal. I just don't see how giving 2 dealers a shot at my business is not fair.
Each dealer knows their costs and is going to work within that limitation. But I feel like the Hostsprings guy is playing with me. First quote was $7600. Labor day quote was $7200. Today $6995. Are you tellimg me that his costs have gone down?
I am realistic and fair in that by Dec 31st, 2007 I will be the proud owner of either a Sundance or Hotsprings Spa. I have given both dealers a chance to earn my business. That's fair, right?
Remember, the pricing game was started by the dealer, not me. He should be willing to play the game since he started it.
-
BY DECEMBER 31ST!!!???? :-/ :-/
I personally think both of your dealers will be a bit tired of you by then. You are at the end of the negotiations. The last price your HSS dealer is a FANTASTIC price.
I understand your need to get the best price. No issue there. But you are going in and beating these guys up. Then you'll tell them you are going to buy by the end of the year? Not cool. You should be ready to buy when you complete your beatings.
What's going to end up happening is these dealers will sell you a spa, but then they will dread every time you call. Your profile is shaping up to be one of "those" customers.
All dealers have "those" customers they don't like to deal with. Sorry to say it, but what you are doing is telling them that's how you'll be the entire time you own a spa. It's tough to hear that, but I've seen it time and time again. I've actually been in circumstances where I've finally told the customer to go somewhere else.
Don't get so caught up in a couple of hundred dollars on a product that should be with you for 10 or 15 years that you end up alienating the dealers.
Just my zero cents worth.
-
BY DECEMBER 31ST!!!???? :-/ :-/
I personally think both of your dealers will be a bit tired of you by then. You are at the end of the negotiations. The last price your HSS dealer is a FANTASTIC price.
I understand your need to get the best price. No issue there. But you are going in and beating these guys up. Then you'll tell them you are going to buy by the end of the year? Not cool. You should be ready to buy when you complete your beatings.
Oh...I am ready to buy now. I am just willing to wait until Dec 31. I will probably make my purchase in Mid october. There is a home show in early Oct that I want to check out to see if I can get a better deal.
I want my spa TODAY...but I also know that if I rush, I will not get the best deal I can. Time is in my favor. I know that these guys want to move in the 2008's. So the closer it gets to 2008, the hungrier they will be to get rid of the 2007's.
Trust me, if I were to see a "can't pass this up" deal today, I would buy it today. But no dealer has looked me in the eye and told me that this is his best deal. I wish spa delaers had set pricing, that would be easier on everyone. But the dealers don't want this because they can get some people to pay much more for a spa than others.
-
Have I been unfair? I told him up front that the MAX I can spend on a spa is $7000. That doesn't mean that I want to spend $7000 if I can get it for $6500. I have been truthful with my dealer in every way. I like his spa and I like his competitors spa. I am going to buy the one that I feel offers me the best deal. I just don't see how giving 2 dealers a shot at my business is not fair.
Each dealer knows their costs and is going to work within that limitation. But I feel like the Hostsprings guy is playing with me. First quote was $7600. Labor day quote was $7200. Today $6995. Are you tellimg me that his costs have gone down?
I am realistic and fair in that by Dec 31st, 2007 I will be the proud owner of either a Sundance or Hotsprings Spa. I have given both dealers a chance to earn my business. That's fair, right?
Remember, the pricing game was started by the dealer, not me. He should be willing to play the game since he started it.
Sloooow down did I say your were unfair, not at all, I also said BOTH need to be upfront maybe its just the way we do business but we try to find a way to make each deal work in the very best way we can.
-
You are comparing apples and oranges, not that it matters.
What comes with each spa?
Just so things are clear, from the factory you get:
Hot Spring--spa, cover, factory installed ozone, 220v GFCI subpanel
Sundance--spa, cover
So, what are the dealers offering?
You have a great price on the Sovereign. Frankly, I am amazed your delaer has gone as low as he has.
Of course eah dealer wants the business.
It is a shame that buying a spa is so often a haggling game. While the industry has done it to itself, now, in most cases, I beleive customers expect some movement or something "thrown in".
-
Oh...I am ready to buy now. I am just willing to wait until Dec 31. I will probably make my purchase in Mid october. There is a home show in early Oct that I want to check out to see if I can get a better deal.
I want my spa TODAY...but I also know that if I rush, I will not get the best deal I can. Time is in my favor. I know that these guys want to move in the 2008's. So the closer it gets to 2008, the hungrier they will be to get rid of the 2007's.
Trust me, if I were to see a "can't pass this up" deal today, I would buy it today. But no dealer has looked me in the eye and told me that this is his best deal. I wish spa delaers had set pricing, that would be easier on everyone. But the dealers don't want this because they can get some people to pay much more for a spa than others.
Just by the above statement there is a communication gap, It would appear that nether of you have said to each other , is there a way to make this happen today as in NOW.
-
Solo,
Just my 2 cents in the matter, a new Sovereign in the Baltimore/Washington DC area sell new to every customer for $7895. So if I were you I would jump on the $6995 price. Also, you sound as if you would rather not purchase from the Hotspring Dealer by the way you talk about them, so why wait to relax, because you could have started the process of relaxing by making a purchase on a new sundance spa. Also, HomeShow deals generally are no better than purchasing from the store today. Good luck. I'm glad we have set pricing with all of our customers.
-
I am realistic and fair in that by Dec 31st, 2007 I will be the proud owner of either a Sundance or Hotsprings Spa.
Does that mean you're going to be posting interminable new threads till then??
-
Does that mean you're going to be posting interminable new threads till then??
What does this mean?
I am educating myslef on spa ownership, spa features, and also sharing my experience with the board. Do you want me to quit posting?
I won't be here forever. As soon as I buy my spa I will probably only come back for maintenance questions. Your post makes me feel as if I am not wanted.
-
Your post makes me feel as if I am not wanted.
On behalf of all the kind and generous folks at HotSpring Spas, we welcome you with open arms! :)
Term
-
Solo,
Just my 2 cents in the matter, a new Sovereign in the Baltimore/Washington DC area sell new to every customer for $7895. So if I were you I would jump on the $6995 price. Also, you sound as if you would rather not purchase from the Hotspring Dealer by the way you talk about them, so why wait to relax, because you could have started the process of relaxing by making a purchase on a new sundance spa. Also, HomeShow deals generally are no better than purchasing from the store today. Good luck. I'm glad we have set pricing with all of our customers.
No, I don't mind purchasing from the Hotsprings dealer at all. However, he has said a few things in our discussion that contradict each other. I guess the trust factor is not there.
-
I wet tested various models offered by 8 different manufacturers. Every dealer but one phoned me after a few days saying they just got a special discount from the manufacturer on the model I was interested in.
Amazing how some sales people think the consumer is so naive and gullible.
I researched the total likely cost of manufacture plus shipping plus probable dealer overhead and made an offer containing a fair markup to the more honest one, and he accepted.
Any time a price is negotiable the knowledgeable and patient consumer can get a fair deal.
-
I wet tested various models offered by 8 different manufacturers. Every dealer but one phoned me after a few days saying they just got a special discount from the manufacturer on the model I was interested in.
Amazing how some sales people think the consumer is so naive and gullible.
I researched the total likely cost of manufacture plus shipping plus probable dealer overhead and made an offer containing a fair markup to the more honest one, and he accepted.
Any time a price is negotiable the knowledgeable and patient consumer can get a fair deal.
Where did you get your information? I would love to do the same.
-
I really see where you are coming from, Solo. A few dealers here will say with honesty that they offer the best price that they can, and seem sort of offended when customers try to "haggle." We wouldn't do that if, as you said, it were not part of the game already created. I appreciate that dealers here give us their perspective, but you are not BUYING from one of them, you're buying from some Joe-schmoe, and after you have shopped for a while, and been given all those salesman lines that make your skin crawl, you dont trust anyone anymore. It is a vicious circle, and neither dealers not consumers are to blame, but in order to get a good deal, you have to ask the questions that you are asking.
And just as not all dealers are created equally, not all consumers are, either. You sound like someone trying to make sure that he gets a fair deal, but doesn't want to take advantage of anyone. I know that there are people just going out there, wasting dealers' time, and trying to low-ball everything. (Try not to become one of those.) Just as we generalize that dealers are schmarmy, they probably have to generalize that an awful lot of customers are cheap. Again....vicious circle. But in a market where there really IS NOT ANY information on dealer mark up or dealer economics, how can we possibly know when "This is the best I can do" means "I am running business, please let me continue to do so" versus "this guy looks like he'll cough up a few hundred extra no sweat"
Glad I'm not in the market anymore. :)
-
Oh...I am ready to buy now. I am just willing to wait until Dec 31. I will probably make my purchase in Mid october. There is a home show in early Oct that I want to check out to see if I can get a better deal.
Talk to the Sundance dealer and see what he’ll do for you. If you get these guys down to where they are giving you a very good offer they’ll want you to make a decision. If you in turn say you want to wait a month to see the spas at some home show don’t be shocked if they pull the offer and don’t encourage you to come back (everyone has the choice to walk). When you break a dealer down to get a good price they can understand you maybe buying elsewhere (not like, but understand) but when they cave to give a good offer they may not appreciate you just putting them on hold for a month and expecting you can come back to get the same price. Then again, maybe you can.
I wish spa delaers had set pricing, that would be easier on everyone. But the dealers don't want this because they can get some people to pay much more for a spa than others.
I'm not so sure that's what you really want. The way it is now you've got one dealer down to $7000 on a spa you like but he's fine with that because someone else might pay $7400 for theirs. If it were pay one price that Hot Spring dealer would charge everyone $7200. Would that make you happier?
This is the reason I don't buy a Saturn car. I don't want to pay $20,000, the same as everyone else. I want to dicker with the guy and get mine down to $18,500 which can happen because someone else paid $21,500 for theirs.
-
Where did you get your information? I would love to do the same.
Information about materials cost for the typical acrylic/fiberglass/resin type shells is available on the web. The cost of producing molds for the shells is roughly the same for similar sized tubs. Costs for the plumbing, electronics and skirts are roughly equal depending on the quality of the control panel and spa size. Labor costs vary by region, but I used California as most of the brands I analyzed are made in California. Marquis, I believe is made in Oregon which has slightly lower average labor costs.
Knowing that it takes about 4 days from start to "ready to ship" to make a single spa enables you to roughly calculate labor and QC testing costs. Manufacturing overhead is an average I used for this type of manufacturing.
Also, some brands have higher marketing (promotional and advertising) costs than others.
I am not saying that I came up with an actual true cost to make and set up a spa in the showroom, but I did have ballpark numbers which enabled me to be prepared to negotiate fairly with my adversaries (uhh, the spa dealers). Generally, I knew more about their products than they did. This all took time, but time is all that we have, and hard-earned money should be spent wisely.
-
Where did you get your information? I would love to do the same.
Neptuner didn't have any hard and fast data. He guesstimated on the cost to build the spa (he knows what parts go in it but from his post he doesn't show knowledge of production costs). He estimated on delivery costs but that's not too difficult when a lot of internet spa companies charge for this. As far as overhead goes, maybe he has some business experience to understand that and from there he estimated what he though he should pay for the spa which isn’t too tough since he said he had tested 8 models so he had an idea what they were asking so he just estimated how low he could go.
He really didn't do much more than you’ve done expect he went to them with a firm offer based on what he thought he could get whereas you’ve just ground them down by continuing to show interest but desire for a better price. It sounds like you’ve worked your way down to getting a good deal a well.
-
OK...Let's go a different route. This board seems to have a number of dealers or sales reps on it. I want their opinion. I am not saying that this is fact, just using this as a grounds for the discussion. Let's assume that spa ABC from company XYZ costs the dealer $5000.
1. What is the max price you would feel comfortable charging a consumer for that spa?
2. What price do you feel is a fair deal for both the dealer and consumer?
3. What price is a better deal for the consumer, but still worth pursuing?
4. What price is just not worth it for the dealer?
-
Knowing that it takes about 4 days from start to "ready to ship" to make a single spa enables you to roughly calculate labor and QC testing costs. Manufacturing overhead is an average I used for this type of manufacturing.
Besides all the other generalizations this is about the only part of the post where you put a number on anything but it's not accurate. If a spa is started the beginning of the day by a spa manufacturer it's completed the same day by any decent sized company, maybe a day and a half. What changes from manufacture to manufacturer is how many hands are on that spa. It may see many stations and have many people work on it. A small company may build it in a couple days using far fewer people. I don't know who would take 4 days to make a spa but you're talking about smaller places where they are batching their operations. Now in the end, not counting efficiency of production you could say it'll take similar man hours whether its made in a day or 3 days. Those making it in one day in a modern manufacturing line will be much more efficient of course.
-
Sounds like you want the easy sale. I can't blame you. You want to sell to the guy that is gonna take your first quote and make you the most amount of money. I am just not that guy. I know that you as a dealer aren't going to give me a deal that is bad for your business. You might not make as much money on my sale as the next guys, but you are gonna make money. I leave it up to you to know what is good for your business.
But just as you would call my bluff, I doubt that this dealer is gonna be ready when I call his bluff. When I say to him "Show me the invoice for the last Sovereign you sold". Is he gonna whip out an invoice or is he gonna hem and haw about why he can't do that? I just want to know that I am getting a good deal. Not what I think is a good deal, but truly a good deal.
And here's the thing. The dealers are the ones that have made a game out of buying a spa. Most first quote MSRP and immediately knock off 20% from MSRP before the customer opens his mouth. Then, they end up selling the same spa at all different prices. If you don't like playing the negotiation game, just have set pricing. Quote every customer the same price on the same spa and stick to your pricing. I don't negotiate at Walmart. I don't negotiate at the grocery store. I know that these places have set pricing. But I feel as though the spa dealerships have made a game out of pricing and hence feel obligated to play the game.
Honestly, I don't like haggling either. I don't enjoy pitting one dealer against the other. But it's pretty much the only way to ensure that I am getting the best deal I can. I don't think anybody enjoys paying more for something than they have to.
Okay for starters no sale is really easy,well some are ;) And I dont just spit out one quote and leave it at that,I like a haggler as much as any sales guy, but when they start to play the they went to this price, how low will you go and I know there going to get back in there car headed to whoever to say what I told them, I set my price and stick with it.
I have been sucked in to many times in the past with the price war thing I just dont go there anymore if I know thats what there doing,most people dont but some do.
I understand the consumer wants the best value for there money, who doesnt! But to play dealers against each other is not something I go for anymore.
And for what its worth, I will show anybody a previous sales contract and can honestly say they wont find a better deal with in the last year if thats what it takes to sell them a spa.
Either way no hard feelings and good luck in your purchase!!
-
On $5000 dollar spas, we would sell it for $5010, but we sell a lot of spas.
Costco would sell a $5000 spa for approximately $8995 if they follow their current markup practices.
Good luck with whichever spa you end up getting, you will enjoy it! :)
Term
-
Solo - You are not going to get the dealers INVOICE price. That is simply NOT how MOST retail establishments work. Car stealerships on the other hand...
When was the last time you asked your grocer to "show you the invoice" on a loaf of bread. Kinda stupid, huh? Well, it's the same way here. If your looking for the best deal, you need (#1) a dealership that sells a LOT of spas (smaller dealerships simply don't have the volume to allow significant discounts). In addition, each storefront has differing carrying cost. If the dealer also owns the property (i.e. building) then he doesn't have rent costs and can pass along savings (if he wants too). Remember that tubs are not like cars (at least the sales tactics should not be like car sales. If it is, RUN AWAY from that dealer QUICK). I paid $6,500 for a Jacuzzi J-370 with stereo 4 years ago. Retail then was around $8,500. Adjusted to todays values would indicate that you "should" be able to buy a J-365 for around $7K (typical annual increase is $500 and the 355 is the LOUNGER version a level/size below/smaller than the 375 which is about a $1K difference). Some Jacuzzi dealers may extend that price while others may not.
-
Have I been unfair? I told him up front that the MAX I can spend on a spa is $7000. That doesn't mean that I want to spend $7000 if I can get it for $6500. I have been truthful with my dealer in every way. I like his spa and I like his competitors spa. I am going to buy the one that I feel offers me the best deal. I just don't see how giving 2 dealers a shot at my business is not fair.
Each dealer knows their costs and is going to work within that limitation. But I feel like the Hostsprings guy is playing with me. First quote was $7600. Labor day quote was $7200. Today $6995. Are you tellimg me that his costs have gone down?
I am realistic and fair in that by Dec 31st, 2007 I will be the proud owner of either a Sundance or Hotsprings Spa. I have given both dealers a chance to earn my business. That's fair, right?
Remember, the pricing game was started by the dealer, not me. He should be willing to play the game since he started it.
You DO realize that some salesman somewhere is going to ask you that basic Sales 101 question, right? You know the one that goes... "So, what dollar amount EXACTLY (taxes, options, etc) would it take to get you into my XYZ spa today?" You're then obligated to give a "reasonable" response. Sounds like that is where you are with the Hot Springs dealer and his $6,995 price. If he's smart, he will ask if your ready to buy it AT THAT price each and every time you come back in. If he is lucky, he will sell the unit and then tell you that the newer/next units he is getting are going up in price (i.e. since they will be a year newer, 2008's) and that you missed your chance.
Bottom line is that I am not a spa salesman (nor any salesman for that matter) but I have run retails sales operations in the past. Continue your research and learn but the best thing you can do is to learn the CURRENT market prices for the spas that interest you via the internet. Spa dealers are NOT going to give you their bottom line prices over the internet (no reason too). Some of the dealer on THIS SITE are nice enough to tell you "hey, that's a pretty good deal" and you should accept that guideance as there is NO BENEFIT to them if you buy at that price from your local dealer so they have little reason to mis-lead you.
-
Hot tubs are not cars, $6995 for the Sovereign (220V) is a great price; super price actually. Dealers aren't making as much as people think. Dealers do have something called "overhead" to run their business.
We paid $5295 for our Hot Spring Jetsetter last July (2006) and they included the sub-panel and Tri-X filters. I thought that was a great price so I bought the tub. I think that price was about $1000 below retail. I was happy with what I got, my wife and I use and enjoy the hell out of our tub every night, the dealer made a few $$$'s, so all is good.
You can't spend your whole life worrying about "did I get the best deal" or "did I get screwed"; it will drive you crazy. Let us know what you buy; hopefully soon.
-
Solo - You are not going to get the dealers INVOICE price. That is simply NOT how MOST retail establishments work. Car stealerships on the other hand...
When was the last time you asked your grocer to "show you the invoice" on a loaf of bread. Kinda stupid, huh? Well, it's the same way here. If your looking for the best deal, you need (#1) a dealership that sells a LOT of spas (smaller dealerships simply don't have the volume to allow significant discounts). In addition, each storefront has differing carrying cost. If the dealer also owns the property (i.e. building) then he doesn't have rent costs and can pass along savings (if he wants too). Remember that tubs are not like cars (at least the sales tactics should not be like car sales. If it is, RUN AWAY from that dealer QUICK). I paid $6,500 for a Jacuzzi J-370 with stereo 4 years ago. Retail then was around $8,500. Adjusted to todays values would indicate that you "should" be able to buy a J-365 for around $7K (typical annual increase is $500 and the 355 is the LOUNGER version a level/size below/smaller than the 375 which is about a $1K difference). Some Jacuzzi dealers may extend that price while others may not.
I didn't mean invoise, I meant sales receipt. I want to know what he sold his last sovereign at to see if he is giving me a good deal. Is it fair to ask that?
-
Hottub dan...You make a great point to lay out exactly what is being offered from each dealer.
From Hotprings: 355 gal sp, 23 jets, 1 pump. Ozone. spa cover, steps, 220V subpanel, possibly a nicer filtration system (not sure)
Sundance: 400 gal spa, 41 jets, 2 pumps. cover, steps.
Again...The Sundance has a stronger massage, the hotsprings has a nicer overall fit and finish. The Hot Springs just has a slightly higher quaity feel. Though for my hydrotherapy, the Sundance might be better with the stronger jets. It really is not an easy decision.
One question I haven't asked either dealer is how much water gets filtered each day. And is the water being filtered while I am in the tub. I think these are important questions.
-
I didn't mean invoise, I meant sales receipt. I want to know what he sold his last sovereign at to see if he is giving me a good deal. Is it fair to ask that?
That's a really loaded question for many reasons, Under the definition of Being "Fair" Would you agree to pay that price even it was higher ? And if not why should you see it.....being "Fair" should work both ways right ?
Let me just add I would never do it, perhaps I am wrong but it just rubs me the wrong way, if we do not have a mutual trust than why bother. If we agree to a deal than lets shake on it, write it up and get you into some hot water but hey that's just me, again perhaps others feel differently.
-
That's a really loaded question for many reasons, Under the definition of Being "Fair" Would you agree to pay that price even it was higher ? And if not why should you see it.....being "Fair" should work both ways right ?
Let me just add I would never do it, perhaps I am wrong but it just rubs me the wrong way, if we do not have a mutual trust than why bother. If we agree to a deal than lets shake on it, write it up and get you into some hot water but hey that's just me, again perhaps others feel differently.
What if I made him the deal to buy the tub if he could show me that he is giving me a good a deal or better than the last 5 Sovereigns he sold? He goes and whips out the last 5 sales receipts for Sovereigns, if my deal is as good or better than the best in that group, I sign on the dotted line.
You see, I am beginning to feel that there might be a GIGANTIC markup on these tubs and that the price you pay might be incredibly variable. I can find out what a dealer paid for a car, I can't do that for a spa.
Don't you find it odd that I told the guy my MAX price is $7000 and we are noe sitting at $6995? I just don't trust that I have his best deal. By being honest with the sales guy and not trying to hose him, I think I hosed my negotiations. So whereas I know that I have been 100% trruthful with him, I don't know that he can say the same. If he has nothing to hide and everything to gain by making the sale, why not disclose the info I want? It;sd not like I am asking for his invoice and his cost and his profit margin. I just want to know what he is charging others for the same product.
-
It appears that you simply do not trust many people, I do not know what a fair deal on Sovereign is but several others here have said your deal is very very good. My question again is what if he did do as you ask and it turns out your deal is the best of the lot, it would only be to me that you agree since you are the pushing for it to at least pay the best deal of the group even if its higher, than you are both stepping up to be men of your word. But again let me say I would never do this as I think it smacks of poor taste on several levels again just my feeling, I try to treat all customers the same and figure a way if we are close to make a deal that works for the both of us and the reasons as to why sometimes a deal can vary is much to long to list each scenario but it just your common type of things, like color, aged unit, floor model both wet and dry, co-op, etc. For me from what I am reading it seems like you really are still undecided on a tub and that should the Hot Springs do all that you ask, you would still go back to Sundance just to see what they can do.
-
1. Yes, I do not trust many people, especially sales guys. Many sales guys say whatwever it takes to get the sale. I am sales myself and have seen this time and time again from my peers. It's almost impossible to differentiate the truth tellers from the liars.
2. This forum seems very dealer/seller friendly. It is full of great info about spas. I have learned a lot from posting here and appreciate the information that has been provided. But I am not certain it is the greatest forum for the consumer to learn how to get the best deal.
3. My mind is definitely not made up yet. It is made up between 2 brands: Hotsprings and Sundance.
People must understand, that a SPA isa huge purchase and can lead to lots of anxiety, especially for a man of average means. Again, the rich person might not care if he pays $1000-2000 too much. He has the money to spare and the spa is merely a luxury purchase. I am an average joe that has a medical condition and I need to purchase a spa. I can't afford not to get a great deal...
-
lol....well...than I guess I am right you are not ready to buy as you are not settled on which tub you want but what your sure of is give me your best deal so much so that you want to see previous sales tickets so that you can than go and do some more shopping, that is not fair to anyone. Settle on a tub go in and make your deal it seems like your only working the poor Hot Springs guy, what do you sell ?
-
Solo,
FWIW, the dealer that I purchased from actually offered to show me their last few months sales slips. I obviously said sure(I was going to ask him anyway). Talk about honest. Sure enough the last 8 j345s(my spa) were all sold within $200 of eachother.
-
lol....well...than I guess I am right you are not ready to buy as you are not settled on which tub you want but what your sure of is give me your best deal so much so that you want to see previous sales tickets so that you can than go and do some more shopping, that is not fair to anyone. Settle on a tub go in and make your deal it seems like your only working the poor Hot Springs guy, what do you sell ?
I sell services. I am a head hunter. Companies call me to help them find employees. I charge all of my customers the same rate. I will gladly show any of my customers all of my invoices.
By the way, I just read where the jacuzzi dealer volunteered to show his customer the last few months sales slips. That's the kind of dealer I want to work with...
-
People must understand, that a SPA isa huge purchase and can lead to lots of anxiety, especially for a man of average means....... I am an average joe that has a medical condition and I need to purchase a spa. I can't afford not to get a great deal...
Spa is a huge purchase? you learn something everyday.... It's a luxury item NOT a necessity. I never heard anyone equate the purchase of a discretionary luxury item with anxiety...until you. If you can't afford it don't buy it. Simple. If you have a medical condition that warrants it maybe your health insurance will cover physical whirlpool therapy or your accountant can show you some tax breaks associated with the purchase of a spa due to medical needs. In either case you are simply going to alienate the salesman from whom you ultimately make the purchase by trying to beat his price into the ground on a daily basis.
-
I sell services. I am a head hunter. Companies call me to help them find employees. I charge all of my customers the same rate. I will gladly show any of my customers all of my invoices.
By the way, I just read where the jacuzzi dealer volunteered to show his customer the last few months sales slips. That's the kind of dealer I want to work with...
lol, that's great if it works for you, I have never been asked I guess if your repoire with someone is strong enough it is a non issue.... ;)...I do encourage those who are shopping to check prices people are paying online for the product I sell to see if we are fair or not.
-
Spa is a huge purchase? you learn something everyday.... It's a luxury item NOT a necessity. I never heard anyone equate the purchase of a discretionary luxury item with anxiety...until you. If you can't afford it don't buy it. Simple. If you have a medical condition that warrants it maybe your health insurance will cover physical whirlpool therapy or your accountant can show you some tax breaks associated with the purchase of a spa due to medical needs. In either case you are simply going to alienate the salesman from whom you ultimately make the purchase by trying to beat his price into the ground on a daily basis.
I don't care if I alienate the sales rep or not. He won't sell me a spa if it's a bad deal for him. He has to decide if I am worth his time and effort. So what if I make him work his commission? he wouldn't keep talking to me if there wasn't something in it for him. And I won't feel guilty about terying to get a good deal just like that sales rep doesn't feel guilty when a sucker pays full sticker.
-
Well it's certainly obvious that you're far too smart to be taken by the likes of a salesman. Good luck in your search. And good luck when you call the dealer back for service. Keep plenty of lubricant handy.....
-
Well it's certainly obvious that you're far too smart to be taken by the likes of a salesman. Good luck in your search. And good luck when you call the dealer back for service. Keep plenty of lubricant handy.....
Oh...you have NO IDEA how bad I can be if you hose me. I will picket outside his door. I will scare his customers away if he hoses me on the service end. If you agree to the sale then you agree to the service and you agree to the warranty in my book.
Your posts are giving me a terrible impression of your industry. If I don't let you rob me up front, you will shaft me on the tail end? So spa reps would take my money, then not service me simply because they didn't earn enough profit?
That's awful.
-
So spa reps would take my money, then not service me simply because they didn't earn enough profit?
No, in your case they'd do it just for the fun of it.
-
We sell the Sovereign for about a thousand dollars more than that guy is offering, and that is without any accessories. I'd say he is bending over backwards to try and make you a deal, moreso than most people would.
Our store has never been picketed. Of course, in Texas, we can legally shoot you if you are on our property without permission. That's why everyone loves Texas, except for picketeers.
Terminator
-
Yeah, that and them long legged girls with cowboy hats.....mercy.....
-
We sell the Sovereign for about a thousand dollars more than that guy is offering, and that is without any accessories. I'd say he is bending over backwards to try and make you a deal, moreso than most people would.
Our store has never been picketed. Of course, in Texas, we can legally shoot you if you are on our property without permission. That's why everyone loves Texas, except for picketeers.
Terminator
I love Texas. Lived there for 8 years in the DFW area. Miss it. Great people, affordable living, lots of stuff to do...
-
No, in your case they'd do it just for the fun of it.
I certainly hope that you are joking. But if I do get hosed by my dealer, I do the following:
1. Tell everyone I know
2. Report the dealer ot the better business burea
3. Write the President of the company a personal letter
4. Picket the store if none of the above works.
5. Report dealer to the MFG
-
Yeah, that and them long legged girls with cowboy hats.....mercy.....
Yep!
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/bighat.jpg)
-
Solo,
I think most folks here have been genuine in offering whatever insights/advice they can. I think that you are asking someone to give you the absolute best deal they possibly can but you are not ready to make a commitment to purchase. It is unreasonable to ask someone for a absolute in stone best deal if your not ready, and each dealer works differently at times there may be a variance in price based on different circumstances but remember most dealers prices as you have seen by the other posters usually few only a few hundred dollars and not in the thousands. I am speaking of same dealers in store sales not dealer to dealer.
-
Spa is a huge purchase? you learn something everyday.... It's a luxury item NOT a necessity. I never heard anyone equate the purchase of a discretionary luxury item with anxiety...until you.
Are you serious? Since when is the fact that something is luxury as opposed to necessity going to remove anxiety from a big purchase? I think most people have a certain amount of trepidation, if not anxiety, buying a spa. The fact that it IS a luxury alone brings up all kinds of self doubt......"should I invest the money instead? What if I dont LOVE it? Should I DONATE the money instead???? Afterall, I can do without it, I just WANT it......" That, to me, is anxiety, and I personally experienced it during the whole purchase time.
Now whether someone gets anxious about the price a few hundred dollars one way or another is a different thing. If a $6800 vs $7000 purchase were the difference between gas money for the month and not.......well, then your right- you shouldn't even be considering it at all. But most people just want the best deal they can get, and some are pushier about it than others.
-
2. This forum seems very dealer/seller friendly. It is full of great info about spas. I have learned a lot from posting here and appreciate the information that has been provided. But I am not certain it is the greatest forum for the consumer to learn how to get the best deal.
Shoppers like yourself fill up this forum (and others like it) on a daily basis. If this forum isn't "buyer friendly", it's because many of those shoppers disappear after making their purchases. The only time they come back is if they have problems. You, like many shoppers, are interested in getting the best price. If the last 10 people who bought the spa you're looking at STAYED in this forum after their purchase, they could all chime in and tell you how much they paid and where they're located, and you could get a good idea of how much your spa will sell for.
You've asked tons of questions, and gotten a lot of helpful advice. Will you still be around next year to help future spa shoppers in their quests to get the best tub at the best price?
-
I have gotten a ton of great info here and truly appreciate it. My plans were to only hang out here until I make my purchase then come back with problems (just like you said).
I might start a "yahoo group" message board more oriented for consumers. Based on a few of the responses I have received in this forum, I am not certain that other dealers in the forum would appreciate me hanging out and discussing price with other consumers.
Of course, if I could get the moderator to open up another board in this forum called "Spa Pricing and Consumer discussion", I could probably take the initiative to hang out there ona regular basis.
-
Solo,
You are much like many consumers, much like myself, we want a great deal, a fair deal nothing wrong with that, but what one person paid many times has very little relevance to what another paid, cost of doing business around the country varies, is your dealer seasonal or year round ? what was included in your deal ? was it a floor model ? if so wet or dry? When was it purchased by your dealer? at the beginning, middle or end of the year? the list goes on and on, I can share this from being in sales for 30 plus years many many as in most consumers forget all the small details shorty after the product is home and they may give you a broad price of what they paid but not detailed list of each and every item, things like steps and cover lifts can vary by hundreds of dollars. The spa owners on this board would be the exception to that as most are infinitely more involved than the average spa consumer.
-
I have gotten a ton of great info here and truly appreciate it. My plans were to only hang out here until I make my purchase then come back with problems (just like you said).
I might start a "yahoo group" message board more oriented for consumers. Based on a few of the responses I have received in this forum, I am not certain that other dealers in the forum would appreciate me hanging out and discussing price with other consumers.
Of course, if I could get the moderator to open up another board in this forum called "Spa Pricing and Consumer discussion", I could probably take the initiative to hang out there ona regular basis.
Echoing Mendcino, you can't really judge what others paid. All spa dealers are independent business people. Some may have multiple stores, but most have one. Large corporations are able to hold prices nationwide by averaging out their costs. These independent owners don't have that luxury.
The dealer in New England pays the same for his spa as does the guy in Southern California. However, the New England dealer probably pays two to three times the freight of the manufacturer in SoCal. Cost of doing business in Terminator's neck of the woods is much lower than doing business in San Diego. All of these dealers nationwide must figure out what it costs them to do business where they are and base their price on that.
So, to have a consumer, price oriented chat board, would not be all that beneficial to the consumer. Some consumers would think they were getting reamed when, because of their market and costs, they are getting the best that dealer can do.
I can tell you that if a dealer is clearing $800- $1000 per spa, he is ecstatic. Many dealers are not clearing that after they pay their rent, commissions, utilities, taxes, worker's comp, etc.
I tell you again, as have many on this board, the price of $6995 is an Excellent deal. You should take it. I can bet that your dealer is not clearing more than $500-$600 on that spa after all is said and done.
FYI, I am neither a dealer nor a spa salesperson. I have been around this stuff for a very long time, so I do know of which I speak.
If you like the Sovereign, you have a great price. Now, be kind to your dealer and buy it.
-
Again, the rich person might not care if he pays $1000-2000 too much. He has the money to spare and the spa is merely a luxury purchase. I am an average joe that has a medical condition and I need to purchase a spa. I can't afford not to get a great deal...
Then you can relax knowing that you aren't anywhere NEAR having a quote that is $1000 over what others pay. In fact it appears from what a few others have indicated that you are below the average price. Fankly if I were the dealer and it was truly my best price and you asked for more off again I'd politely tell you the price is final and has a 72 hr window of acceptance to give you time to decide if you really wanted it. Sometimes a dealer just has to help deal get finalized or ended for good for their own piece of mind; I've seen it happen.
-
I sell services. I am a head hunter. Companies call me to help them find employees. I charge all of my customers the same rate. I will gladly show any of my customers all of my invoices.
By the way, I just read where the jacuzzi dealer volunteered to show his customer the last few months sales slips. That's the kind of dealer I want to work with...
I stopped reading this thread and came back to find all this.
As a head hunter you have no knowledge of the person you are selling and swear this person is a good canidate for the job. The person may be watching porn all day on his /her computer and you don't know that - talk about sleazy!
You want the absolute best price and you say the dealers around here won't want you around because of pricing ... I say BS. What happens here is exactly what DP said and you concured that's your plan too. Well I'm a consumer looked at a ton of spas and will give people prices, unfortunately their 2004 prices but add $2000 to the price and there you go. I've been here for a while helping people any way I can.
Showing sales slips is BS to me as well - what happens if the factory has a bonafide sale? Do you always buy food items at the same price - NO! Steak can fluctuate from $11.99 per lb to $4.99 per lb - that's just life. I went to dealers and asked what their best price was, that's it. If I liked the dealer I considered it, if not I walked.
ALL the dealers here a cut above the standard dealers. They donate their time to help consumers out. Do they want you to buy their brand of spa - yes they do. Other than a select few people here that have one of these dealers close by, they will never get a sale from their time.
Apparantly if you go to Utah and find the Artesian dealer there they sell my spa for $1000 less than here in NJ ... that was in 2004, it may be true today.
Mostly all tubs in the same catagory cost about the same. Negotiate for your tub, stop looking for us to hand feed you! If you don't like the way business is being done - boycott and don't buy the tub! No one says you need a tub, it's not food.
-
Besides all the other generalizations this is about the only part of the post where you put a number on anything but it's not accurate. If a spa is started the beginning of the day by a spa manufacturer it's completed the same day by any decent sized company, maybe a day and a half. What changes from manufacture to manufacturer is how many hands are on that spa. It may see many stations and have many people work on it. A small company may build it in a couple days using far fewer people. I don't know who would take 4 days to make a spa but you're talking about smaller places where they are batching their operations. Now in the end, not counting efficiency of production you could say it'll take similar man hours whether its made in a day or 3 days. Those making it in one day in a modern manufacturing line will be much more efficient of course.
Reply:
I'm talking about QUALITY spas here.
I'm saying that it takes about 4 days if you start with an order and an empty mold. Extra time is taken if the manufacturing process includes hand rolling the fiberglass backing to create a really good shell.
Of course the assembly process is much quicker if there are completed shells available (maybe just laying around out in the sun like some of us have seen).
I am familiar with manufacturing cost. I worked for a company where the total manufacturing cost of an electro-mechanical item was $1,900. The retail selling price was $25,000. But, at that time the company had a virtual monopoly on that type of product. Anyway almost nobody bought them. They were leased and earned billions for the company.
I designed and programmed their purchasing and manufacturing computer-based systems.
-
I stopped reading this thread and came back to find all this.
As a head hunter you have no knowledge of the person you are selling and swear this person is a good canidate for the job. The person may be watching porn all day on his /her computer and you don't know that - talk about sleazy!
What is this about? Why the personal attack? One of your colleagues told me that if I negotuiated too hard, I would deliberately get poor service. That's sleazy.
You on the other hand know nothjing about the way I do my job. I chweck references, I interview my candidates. I know as much about a candidate that I present to an employer as the employer knows when they are done with the screening process.
It's responses like yours that make me fear your industry.
-
Reply:
I'm talking about QUALITY spas here.
I'm saying that it takes about 4 days if you start with an order and an empty mold. Extra time is taken if the manufacturing process includes hand rolling the fiberglass backing to create a really good shell.
If you're talking about the amount of time to build a spa at one of the top 10 spa makers where they are building 10,000+/year, it takes:
1 day to form and glass.
1 day to assemble in a fully integrated assembly line.
Of course it'll take maybe a few days from the time its ordered to get started and the shell may/will sit in between it getting done and getting pulled to be assembled but you're looking at labor so its 2 days work though time wise it takes longer. Of course it gets many hands working on it at each station where smaller spa makers may take more time because they're using more of a batch method.
-
Wow you know my industry, what is it? It's not spas. Apparently as a head hunter your not too observant. "Well I'm a consumer looked at a ton of spas and will give people prices, unfortunately their 2004 prices but add $2000 to the price and there you go. I've been here for a while helping people any way I can. " was on that same post.
Personal attack - yeah. Everyone here is trying to help and yet it seems that you're pooh-poohing everyone off. Not every person in the world is there to screw you.
You got prices, apparently some good prices and yet it seems you don't believe anything.
If all you have is $7000 and you got a price of $6995 and that's the only one under $7000 then you found your tub - PERIOD! Stretch it to $8000 and you'll find more tubs
-
I just can't help it, SOLO, I've been reading your post's,....I appreciate that you want a "GREAT DEAL" on a spa...Don't we all!!! I just realized what is bothering me the most, about your attitude, is that what makes most of us MAD, UNCOMFORTABLE, and DOWN RIGHT PISSED OFF about others, is the fact that, we see in ourselves, that we do not like the most in others....In your case, someone getting the better of you!!! Head Hunter that you are.
BUY a spa, get a GEAT PRICE, and let us ALL know how GREAT YOU ARE at getting the best deal out there!!!!!
It's been a very long day for me, and, I for one am tired of listening to the justifications for getting the BEST deal out there!!! I have one question, "Is your name JIM?"
Okay, maybe that was out of line ( the Jim section) but, would you buy the blasted spa and let us know what you purchased? I do feel sorry for the dealer that you get your spa from, he/she's in for a whole lot of pain.....
(My apologies to the rest of this forum, if I was a bit out of line)
-
Maybe I can add something worth thinking about. When my Maxxus was first delivered, I noticed a crack a day or 2 later. A couple months later the replacement was craned into place and the old one removed. The dealer had originally agreed to pay for this crane, but an invoice appeared in the mail for about $300. I was p---ed off and made no bones about it. This went back and forth a few times, and I then decided that it was in my best interest to pay and shut up. 2 years later, my cover was sagging and brutally heavy. I asked for a price on a replacement panel or cover, and told to send pics. The dealer had my old cover replaced under warranty and even installed it for me while I was at work. A month after that one of the waterfall LED strips failed...again replaced within days while I was at work. My point is this: You can press and press for deep discounts, but at the end of the day, wouldn't it be best for you if your dealer enjoyed doing business with you? Beat them down, and they may not be as quick to stick their neck out for you later when you need service or warranty. If I had argued and refused to pay the $350 my dealer may not have been so quick to provide such great service 2 years down the road ;)
Best of luck with your purchase :)
Steve
-
OK...I get the picture. I'll make you all a deal.
I will stop talking about pricing, stop talking about how to get a good deal, and limit my discussion to other topics. I seem to have hit a touchy spot with the board. When I do buy a spa (and I won't rush my decision no matter how many people want me to buy a spa already), I will come back and tell you about the great spa that I purchased.
Deal?
Moderator...feel free to lock this thread.
-
There is one question I always ask a seller when I think we are close to a deal:
Is that your final offer?
Try it, Solo.
-
OK...I get the picture. I'll make you all a deal.
I will stop talking about pricing, stop talking about how to get a good deal, and limit my discussion to other topics. I seem to have hit a touchy spot with the board. When I do buy a spa (and I won't rush my decision no matter how many people want me to buy a spa already), I will come back and tell you about the great spa that I purchased.
Deal?
Moderator...feel free to lock this thread.
Oy Vey! It really doesn't concern me at all whether you buy a spa or not.
That's your "tortured" decision, apparently.
But I do think you need a good soak to relax a bit!
-
SOLO,
You said a while back that you don't trust people. Have you ever heard the saying " if you can't trust anyone, then you yourself cannot be trusted". Take it for what it's worth.
Good luck.
-
One of your colleagues told me that if I negotuiated too hard, I would deliberately get poor service. That's sleazy
Apparently reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits.....either. Continue to play one dealer off of another, like you already have, and act like an ignoramous, as you have here, and good luck getting prompt curteous service when the time comes.
-
We all want the best deal. My issue here solo is that you want to negotiate NOW and get the best price NOW but you're not willing to buy NOW. Seems like a very one sided relationship at this point.
As a dealer, that would just piss me off. I do not agree with your "style" of purchasing and also echo the feeling of others that suggest your future dealer is in for a ride with you. :-? For those of us that have been around many years selling spas, we know your type and have seen it before many times. I would rather sell my spa for $500 or $1000 less than normal to someone else who would appreciate it and not be paranoid that I'm trying to screw them.
You didn't come here for "help"... you came to get an idea of the best price you could so you can go beat up your local dealers. You are already set in your ways and methodically knew exactly how you were going to do it. That is very clear to me.
Steve
-
Steve...Actually I got a couple of very good tips from a couple consumers in this forum. Yhey told me to:
1. Be patient
2. Find spas from several dealers that I like
3. Ask for the homeshow price or attend one
4. Be prepared to wait for end of year deals as dealera want to bring in next years model
I had no idea how to get a good deal on a spa before I came here and took this advice. It seems that this advice has gotten me a good deal. So I am really glad that I came here. And again, I also got a lot of great info about spas in genral.
Bottom line: it's a business transaction. I will deliver on my end of our business relationship and I trust that the dealer will be a professional and keep up his end of the deal too. I mean, if he's not happy with our deal, why make it? I rely on him to know what is good for his business.
He may not like working with customers like me. Well, he doesn't have to. I am not forcing him to sell me a spa. I don't enjoy haggling either or pitting dealers against each other. But it is apparently the game we have to play, the game that was set up by the dealer. The delaer is willing to sell some spas for much less in order to sell others for much more. It's all a part of the game. If a dealer doesn't want to play it, why not set your pricing as non negotiable?
I feel like this forum has villifed me. But I haven't seen too many people busting on the Hotsprings dealer for:
1. Telling me that sitting in a vista will pretty much give me the same experience as a Sovereign.
2. Telling me that a Soverign Classic is only cosmetically different from a Soverign II when in fact the motors have been upgraded.
3. Telling me that he can pretty much simulate the Moto Massage II feel by giving me a faceplate to put on a Single Moto Massage
Just as I have pulled out my book of tricks, the dealer has done his fair share of manipulating as well. I am doing my best to get a great deal and he is doing his best to sell me a spa. Isn't that the game?
-
As noted in your earlier statement.. this is a business transaction and no, it's NOT a game (maybe to you it is).
We actually DID set our prices as non-negotiable due this sort of unatractive behavior and it worked very well. For every dollar a dealer subracts from the price during negotiation, so follows the value of the item being purchased IMO.
I don't disagree with getting a good deal, it just bugs me that you are unprepared to make that move until Oct or whenever yet expect a different set of rules from your local dealers...
I'd say come back in when you're ready and serious and we'll chat... Don't talk price until you're ready to be at that level of negotiations. You haven't reached it yet.
Steve
-
Steve...Actually I got a couple of very good tips from a couple consumers in this forum. Yhey told me to:
1. Be patient
2. Find spas from several dealers that I like
3. Ask for the homeshow price or attend one
4. Be prepared to wait for end of year deals as dealera want to bring in next years model
1. Yes, be patient, but that doesn't mean pushing the dealer for a very good price only to not really be interested at the time anyway because you're going to a home show next month. I agree with Steve's commentary on this issue a few posts back.
2. True.
3. Homeshow price? I'm not sure where that nugget came from. Home shows don't necessarily equate to better pricing and sometimes its the opposite (maybe Chas can jump in here as he's talked about this before). Sometimes its not as good as the store because they pay VERY high prices to sell there.
4. The end of the eyar is a bit early for thet. You're probably talking more like late January to early February and at that time you'll get a very good price but it would not shock me if it were about the price you already got unless you're talking about the wet floor models and even then it's not like it'll be $1000 less on a $7000 spa if you got a very good price in the first place.
-
...
I feel like this forum has villifed me. But I haven't seen too many people busting on the Hotsprings dealer for:
1. Telling me that sitting in a vista will pretty much give me the same experience as a Sovereign.
2. Telling me that a Soverign Classic is only cosmetically different from a Soverign II when in fact the motors have been upgraded.
3. Telling me that he can pretty much simulate the Moto Massage II feel by giving me a faceplate to put on a Single Moto Massage
Just as I have pulled out my book of tricks, the dealer has done his fair share of manipulating as well. I am doing my best to get a great deal and he is doing his best to sell me a spa. Isn't that the game?
One advice that was given is to feel good about the dealer, you even mention it. You obviously don't, so why give this dealer your hard earned money? I had a dealer call me an idiot for not buying his spa - I don't go back to him for anything.
My advice is: don't buy this spa from this dealer - he obviously wants your money and will stop at nothing to get it - even lying to you. Walk away and look for a more honest dealer. How's that for the game, when he calls you up (if he does) you can tell him what a dirt bag he is - you win as you don't have to deal with this person and he wins as he gets to sell the spa "at a higher price".
That'll be my last bit of advice!
-
Steve...Actually I got a couple of very good tips from a couple consumers in this forum. Yhey told me to:
1. Be patient
2. Find spas from several dealers that I like
3. Ask for the homeshow price or attend one
4. Be prepared to wait for end of year deals as dealera want to bring in next years model
Solo, I have some more good tips for you:
5. Never tell me the odds.
6. No reward is worth this.
7. Don't get cocky.
8. There's no time to discuss this in committee.
9. Keep your distance. But don't look like you're keeping your distance.
10. Laugh it up, fuzzball.
11. Get in there, you big furry oaf, I don't care what you smell.
12. Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy.
13. Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster.
-
Solo, I have some more good tips for you:
5. Never tell me the odds.
6. No reward is worth this.
7. Don't get cocky.
8. There's no time to discuss this in committee.
9. Keep your distance. But don't look like you're keeping your distance.
10. Laugh it up, fuzzball.
11. Get in there, you big furry oaf, I don't care what you smell.
12. Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy.
13. Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster.
How about ...
When you come to a fork in the road, take it!
When in doubt, throw it out!
Almost is not good enough except in horse shoes, hand grenades and nuclear weapons!
Sometimes in life your a bug and sometimes your a windshield.
If you cry wolf too many times, nobody will respond when the wolf finally comes.
If it looks like poop, smells like poop and tastes like poop - it probably is poop!
(Sorry DP, I'm not up on my Star Wars sayings!)
My favorite saying is - Do unto others as you will have others do unto you!
I truely try to live my life by this, I wish others would as well!
-
But I haven't seen too many people busting on the Hotsprings dealer for:
1. Telling me that sitting in a vista will pretty much give me the same experience as a Sovereign.
2. Telling me that a Soverign Classic is only cosmetically different from a Soverign II when in fact the motors have been upgraded.
3. Telling me that he can pretty much simulate the Moto Massage II feel by giving me a faceplate to put on a Single Moto Massage
Just as I have pulled out my book of tricks, the dealer has done his fair share of manipulating as well. I am doing my best to get a great deal and he is doing his best to sell me a spa. Isn't that the game?
Solo
I think you have answered your own question of what spa to buy
-
But I haven't seen too many people busting on the Hotsprings dealer for:
1. Telling me that sitting in a vista will pretty much give me the same experience as a Sovereign.
2. Telling me that a Soverign Classic is only cosmetically different from a Soverign II when in fact the motors have been upgraded.
3. Telling me that he can pretty much simulate the Moto Massage II feel by giving me a faceplate to put on a Single Moto Massage
Solo,
Nobody has ragged on the dealer because he is not here. As you know there are at least 2 sides to every story. We have heard from, but we don't know his side of the story.
Besides, what's the point. He isn't here to read and respond.
All I can say is you have a great price from a dealer you don't trust.
:-/
-
And here's the thing. The dealers are the ones that have made a game out of buying a spa. Most first quote MSRP and immediately knock off 20% from MSRP before the customer opens his mouth. Then, they end up selling the same spa at all different prices. If you don't like playing the negotiation game, just have set pricing. Quote every customer the same price on the same spa and stick to your pricing. I don't negotiate at Walmart. I don't negotiate at the grocery store. I know that these places have set pricing. But I feel as though the spa dealerships have made a game out of pricing and hence feel obligated to play the game.
Honestly, I don't like haggling either. I don't enjoy pitting one dealer against the other. But it's pretty much the only way to ensure that I am getting the best deal I can. I don't think anybody enjoys paying more for something than they have to.
Solo, I think you hit the nail right on the head with this post, I couldnt have said it better myself. New to the spa scene, I was VERY taken aback by the games and B.S. that most dealers are playing, I went to 4 dealers in one day and all but one tried that, used car salesman approach cr@p with me...it makes me want to turn and run.
You are correct, the dealers started this game and it will continue, because EVERYONE wants to think they got a great deal. I used to work in a LARGE National grocery chain out of high school. Every Sunday nite was price change nite...american cheese would be regular price of .99, it would go up to 1.29...2 weeks later it would go on "sale" for $1.19 and they would sell the hell out of it :)...next week it would go back up to 1.29, then it would drop back down to 1.09 and so on...moral...everyone loves a sale.
But still...the buying experience could use ALOT of improvement...you are right, you dont haggle at a big box store, gas station, restaraunt, etc...I am turned off by it. I went into a Scion dealer last year to help my daughter buy her first brand new car...guess what...when it came time to "deal"...I was actually releived...no haggle pricing...you pay sticker and thats it. I tried to get "free oil chages thrown in"..nope, sorry sir, we dont do that here. It was actually kinda nice.
I am a buyer by profession and spend around $3 million a week of my comapny's money...its my job to negotiate, etc...so...to answer your question...
I bought an 07 Jacuzzi J-345...MSRP...$7995.
Factory auhorized new model sale...$6995....
I paid $6900 out the door..INCLUDING TAX, chems, delivery, cover...
Habits are hard to break :)
-
... The dealers are the ones that have made a game out of buying a spa. Most first quote MSRP and immediately knock off 20% from MSRP before the customer opens his mouth. Then, they end up selling the same spa at all different prices. If you don't like playing the negotiation game, just have set pricing. Quote every customer the same price on the same spa and stick to your pricing. I don't negotiate at Walmart. I don't negotiate at the grocery store. I know that these places have set pricing. But I feel as though the spa dealerships have made a game out of pricing and hence feel obligated to play the game.
Honestly, I don't like haggling either. I don't enjoy pitting one dealer against the other. But it's pretty much the only way to ensure that I am getting the best deal I can. I don't think anybody enjoys paying more for something than they have to.
If I were "selling" you, I would say... "OK, you want the BEST price possible, right? But, you wouldn't not expect to pay the same price I sell these things to my own family and friends for, would you? Of course not, a guys gotr to make a profit SOMEPLACE, RIGHT? How about this, I will sell you the XYZ tub for the same price I sold it to my sister plus $500. Now, does that sound fair?"
Seems like at this point, you would say... "Thanks, but I'm just looking" and then you'd be off to the next stealership. One of the POINTS to sales (ANY kind of SALES) is to MAKE the sale. If your not really SERIOUS about buying (as everything in this thread has already demonstrated beyond a doubt), then the dealer can probably tell this as well and is not about to make you his "best deal". In order to get to that BEST deal, YOU (Mr. Buyer) MUST show some goodwill. Tell me your going to buy it if I get to X. As a salesperson I'll do one of two things (if we've already gone through everything you've outlined here with me as a salesman). Say... "YOU'VE got a deal, let's write this up" or "Sorry, that's WAY out of the ballpark". At some point, the room for negotiations runs out. You're obviously WAY past that point with certain dealers already.
-
One advice that was given is to feel good about the dealer, you even mention it. You obviously don't, so why give this dealer your hard earned money? I had a dealer call me an idiot for not buying his spa - I don't go back to him for anything.
My advice is: don't buy this spa from this dealer - he obviously wants your money and will stop at nothing to get it - even lying to you. Walk away and look for a more honest dealer. How's that for the game, when he calls you up (if he does) you can tell him what a dirt bag he is - you win as you don't have to deal with this person and he wins as he gets to sell the spa "at a higher price".
That'll be my last bit of advice!
LOL, c'mon Vinny! I'm giving the dealer the benefit of the doubt in this case. I'm sure it would be interesteing to hear his side (both dealers) on how this series of negotiations has gone.
-
If I were "selling" you, I would say... "OK, you want the BEST price possible, right? But, you wouldn't not expect to pay the same price I sell these things to my own family and friends for, would you? Of course not, a guys gotr to make a profit SOMEPLACE, RIGHT? How about this, I will sell you the XYZ tub for the same price I sold it to my sister plus $500. Now, does that sound fair?"
I've thought about this a lot, as my ultimate goal is to own my own business (instead of running someone else's). I know I want to have "no haggle" prices - if the spa (or whatever) says $7995, that's how much it costs. But where would I draw the line with "discounts"? If a friend, a neighbor, someone from church, etc. comes in, do they get a discount? This is probably a big issue, since I live in a small town and most of the people who are likely to be my first customers would fall into this group. If the first 4 spas I sell are "discounted", and the 5th customer is a stranger off the street who asks to see my last 4 invoices, I can't exactly look him in the eye when I tell him I only sell for the published price, can I? So, no discounts. Even Mom pays my list price.
-
Whoever this guy is rescind every offer and charge him FULL RETAIL!
-
Based on the responses in this forum, I think many of the dealers in this forum just don't want to work for a living.
"OH...I don't want to work with someone that negotiates a good price. Yo aren't being fair, you are being unethical"
PUH-LEASE!
How about earning that big fat commission check? I work a job that is 100% commission for a living and I have never seen such a bunch of cry baby sales guys in my life.
It's like you guys have banded together to make the consumer feel bad about negotiating a good deal. I notice that I have NEVER seen a single one of you advise a consumer that thery could get a better price. It's always: "BUY IT".
So pardon me if I don't trust you.
Bottom line: the only dealer that is upset are the ones in this forum. I have the Hotsprings dealer here in Richmond calling me twice a week. So apprarently he's not nearly as upset as you guys think he is. I will know when I have his best deal and I won't need you all to tell me.
So can we talk about something else?
-
Solo is a good name for you.
You should hook up with that guy from a few years back, "Needsaspa" or Wantsaspa" or whatever he was calling himself. This thread is remarkably like his were.
If you could believe his tripe, he had a dealer committed to selling him a Cameo for an outrageously great price, and still wouldn't believe it.
His problem was thinking if the dealer came down that far, then certainly he should be able to come down even more. He got so caught up in the price thing, that he'd probably spend the next 5 years agonizing over what he paid for his hot tub, instead of enjoying it.
Believe me, once you hit that hot water, you quickly forget about what the damn thing cost.
-
Well...I should have realized that this was a bad idea to ask this type of question in this forum. Asking spa dealers and sales people for advice on pricing is kind of like asking the fox to watch the henhouse.
I kind of thought that this forum had a bunch of spa owners in it. But I now realize that it is a lot of dealers and a ferw owners.
My bad. I should have had a better understanding of the audience. But really we can drop this. The dealers in this forum that take issue with my methods are never going to agree with strategy. And I will never agree that there is anything wrong with what I am doing.
PS...My hesitation on purchasing my spa is not because I don't believe I have a good deal. It's because I don't have my best deal on the table from both reps and I am undecided as to which spa I prefer. On top of that, I want to check out the home show in the first week of October. I don't think that asking someone to wait a wait a month is a huge deal considering the money I am getting ready to spend.
-
Well...I should have realized that this was a bad idea to ask this type of question in this forum. Asking spa dealers and sales people for advice on pricing is kind of like asking the fox to watch the henhouse.
I kind of thought that this forum had a bunch of spa owners in it. But I now realize that it is a lot of dealers and a ferw owners.
Oh, we owners are also here. I think its just that most of us bought our spas to relax. Worked what we thought was a good deal and went with it. And as someone said earlier, once you are soaking in the tub, you kinda forget about all that anyway.
Good luck with your search, Solo!
-
Well...I should have realized that this was a bad idea to ask this type of question in this forum. Asking spa dealers and sales people for advice on pricing is kind of like asking the fox to watch the henhouse.
I kind of thought that this forum had a bunch of spa owners in it. But I now realize that it is a lot of dealers and a ferw owners.
Nice try Solo but you’re getting about the same response from spa owners as you’re getting from spa professionals. The problem is you really didn't come here to get advice but rather to get confirmation that your thinking is accurate so it doesn't amtter what anyone says unless they simply agree with your wisdom.
Go to Costco and take a look at what they have to offer. I truly believe you are the target audience for that product. No dealer involved which should make you happy since you seem to have a firm grasp on everything in life so you won't need what a dealer has to offer anyway.
-
Well...I should have realized that this was a bad idea to ask this type of question in this forum. Asking spa dealers and sales people for advice on pricing is kind of like asking the fox to watch the henhouse.
I kind of thought that this forum had a bunch of spa owners in it. But I now realize that it is a lot of dealers and a ferw owners.
My bad. I should have had a better understanding of the audience. But really we can drop this. The dealers in this forum that take issue with my methods are never going to agree with strategy. And I will never agree that there is anything wrong with what I am doing.
PS...My hesitation on purchasing my spa is not because I don't believe I have a good deal. It's because I don't have my best deal on the table from both reps and I am undecided as to which spa I prefer. On top of that, I want to check out the home show in the first week of October. I don't think that asking someone to wait a wait a month is a huge deal considering the money I am getting ready to spend.
Last you reported, you were still working the Sundance guy and the HS guy is calling you.
Prove me wrong...I think you do have your best offer on the Sovereign. You might get a better deal on the Sundance.
Negociation is part of the business. There are always customers looking for a deal. Who cares?!
Go for it, Solo. Get your best deal.
Then, enjoy.
-
Aren't you glad you didn't buy an Iphone a couple of months ago? ;D
-
Well...I should have realized that this was a bad idea to ask this type of question in this forum. Asking spa dealers and sales people for advice on pricing is kind of like asking the fox to watch the henhouse.
I kind of thought that this forum had a bunch of spa owners in it. But I now realize that it is a lot of dealers and a ferw owners.
My bad. I should have had a better understanding of the audience. But really we can drop this. The dealers in this forum that take issue with my methods are never going to agree with strategy. And I will never agree that there is anything wrong with what I am doing.
PS...My hesitation on purchasing my spa is not because I don't believe I have a good deal. It's because I don't have my best deal on the table from both reps and I am undecided as to which spa I prefer. On top of that, I want to check out the home show in the first week of October. I don't think that asking someone to wait a wait a month is a huge deal considering the money I am getting ready to spend.
Solo - As a headhunter you should realize that "time is money". If you were attempting to position me as a high end VoIP consultant for around $150K and your client said..."Let me hold off on this for about a month. Afterall, $150K is a lot of money and I (the buyer) deserve to take my time, right". What would be your answer... Yep, "Things change with time and that resource may no longer be available", right? Same thing here. You may well be giving that time-value away on the Hot Springs. Maybe the dealer only has one and will sell it to the guy that came in the door after you for that price. Next months shipmnet cost more and .... your new (i.e. time-induced) price is now $500 more. Congratulations, you just screwed yourself out of a good deal. By the way - BJ's does have a fairly large "no name" tub available for around $3K. No haggling, just buy it and be gone.... Of course, it's not the quality of the Hot Springs or like but it is cheap (in more ways than one). Oh yea, name on the tub is "Keys Backyard". Maybe that is waht you REALLY want after all.
By the way - I do have a need for a high end VoIP consultant in the Northern Virginia area. Total comp will probably be between $100 and $130K. PM me if you think you might have a resource.
-
But I haven't seen too many people busting on the Hotsprings dealer for:
1. Telling me that sitting in a vista will pretty much give me the same experience as a Sovereign.
2. Telling me that a Soverign Classic is only cosmetically different from a Soverign II when in fact the motors have been upgraded.
3. Telling me that he can pretty much simulate the Moto Massage II feel by giving me a faceplate to put on a Single Moto Massage
Just as I have pulled out my book of tricks, the dealer has done his fair share of manipulating as well. I am doing my best to get a great deal and he is doing his best to sell me a spa. Isn't that the game?
Solo
Here is the point I don't get. The above quote is yours, where you claim that the HS dealer has basically lied to you and manipulated the facts and features of his/her tub and you still are in negotiations with them. WOW, I would have walked out the door and never gone back, deal or no deal. What is your after sale service going to be like from this dealer if their sales pitch was full of inconsistencies and half truths.
Go buy the Sundance and enjoy it
-
LOL, c'mon Vinny! I'm giving the dealer the benefit of the doubt in this case. I'm sure it would be interesteing to hear his side (both dealers) on how this series of negotiations has gone.
Spatech,
I'm giving the dealer the benefit of the doubt as well.
Solo is the one who claims what he claims and according to him, he was lied to. He doesn't trust anyone and believes every person in the spa industry is out to screw us.
Remember, I was accused of being a spa professional even though I clearly stated that I am a consumer. My take is the truth is no where near what is being said. As I mentioned, not too observant.
He said he's here not to make friends ... by doing what I suggested he certainly will piss off the dealer and he achieved that goal. People with piss poor attitudes deserve nothing IMO. Let him piss this dealer off to the point the next dealer he goes to has a price of $800 more and the original dealer will not sell to him. 8-)
I can see that in the future he will be around for help even though he's not friendly ... I don't care if he soaks or not, it'll probably be better if he doesn't! ;D
-
Okay, How's this one. who is this dealer in VA?? Anyone who asked who it was I was dealing with, in TN, I gave an honest answer to.
I did my research, and by no means proclaim to be an expert, but, I also knew that I had found a good dealer w/ a good reputation, had been in business for many years, I told him what I had found/learned/priced....We came to an argeement. Not that difficult IMHO.
So, I ask, as no one seems to want to formally go there, (putting myself on the line)
1. Who is/are these dealers that are fighting over Solo's business? i.e.Who is this dealer in VA. ?????
2. What is the great deal they have offered? (both dealers...what's the secret as to who it may be? Is there a problem KNOWING who someone is dealing with? In my line of business I do want to know, if possible, who my competion is!!!
3. Bottom line, out the door price?
4. Why is this person Solo still in such angst over a purchase?
5. Why do we really care about WHAT he does end up purchasing?
Just a query on my part... I have no vendetta, I do NOT sell or repair spa's, I have no one in the business, and really could give a rat's a##'s about the business of the industry as a whole. I do not make a living selling/investing in companies that make or sell spa's/etc. I just do not understand what the big deal is here.maybe someone, Solo, could fill me in as to why this has become a HUGE issue.
I agree with a previous post...Once you are in that spa, PRICE does not matter...it's how you feel at that moment, in the spa of choice, that matters.[/b[glow]]<major sigh>[/glow] They don't seem to have an emoticon for that one!!!!!! :-? :-? :-?
-
Wannasoaknow...My angst is actually with the people in this forum that are calling my negotiating methods unethical. You see, it's not unethical to:
1. Have dealers compete for your business
2. Ask for a discount and do eberythign to get your best deal and
3. Take a few months to research and decide on your purchase. After all, it's probably the only spa I will own for the next decade. Why rush and buy it?
But the dealers and a consumer or two in this forum seem to want to villify me for doing the above.
I do feel that that the Hotsprings dealer I have been negotiating with has not been completely honest with me, but I expect that. So my biggest gripe is with the people in this forum trying to make me feel bad about getting a good deal. That's all.
-
.....So pardon me if I don't trust you.
So you're still here because.....? :-?
-
So you're still here because.....? :-?
I am still here because the site is a good source of information and I am still learning.
Even if I don't trust someone, I can still learn from them.
-
It is important to most people that they do get a good deal, but there comes a time when too much is too much. If all you care about is getting a great price then go to your nearest Costco and buy from there. It seems like you don't care about what type of dealership that you get your tub from i.e not trusting the Hot Springs dealer. SO go somewhere else and leave them alone.
Dealers do a lot for customers like you and there comes a time when they're just not going to give a s@#* and say screw you, and then you will be left paying a higher price. Find a tub and a dealer you like and buy. Since when did quality and loyalty stop becoming a factor in big purchases?
-
So you're still here because.....? :-?
"I've got no where else to go!"
Chris Farley as a roadie in Wayne's World II.
-
I am still here because the site is a good source of information and I am still learning.
Even if I don't trust someone, I can still learn from them.
Personally, I think you're bored and/or lonely. (hence the name SOLO??) :-[
I try not to make it a habit to learn from people I don't trust as often, the information I am receiving is most likely flawed. If there's a credibility issue for ya solo then why take our advice and knowledge as a platform for learning?
If you look back on the10’s of thousands of posts and read how people have come here and received great advice from professionals and owners alike, you'll see a common denominator. There is vast knowledge here and that information is given freely and without prejudice for the most part by the majority and especially those that frequent this spa forum. We come here because we have a passion for the product and take a vested interest in people’s buying decisions and education of how to achieve the best value for their hard earned dollar.
We aren’t looking for life long relationships but I am honored and privileged to be around these people and have had the pleasure of meeting a few of them over the years and I consider them friends. When you suggest that these people are anything but honest, I take that personally and the “free advice” stops. You’ll notice that you have attracted that sort of response of late with your abrasive attitude I’m guessing?
Yes, there are people like you that come here, ruffles the feathers a bit and leave. No biggie as we’ve seen it before but the large majority of people appreciate the input by everyone and we share our knowledge openly and honestly. We’ve been around far too long to let anyone come here and mislead. It’s just not acceptable and those people are called on the floor to back up anything we question.
I think you have received everything you are going to receive here and unless you take a serious look at your demeanor and attitude, I don’t think there’s anything else we can offer.
Best of luck,
Steve
-
Steve...You have made your feelings abundantly clear. If the moderator asks me to leave, I will. Until that happens, I'm here so deal with it.
Best of luck to you too.
-
Solo,
I have to ask, Do you think you are really good at your job ? My reason for asking is that most sale professionals that I know are really easy customers when they find they are getting good service, they recognize the value in it and if they are being treated to what they feel is fair not always the lowest price but a fair price, many would call themselves "lay downs" but something they also all seem to recognize and that is they may go out and do some "window shopping" or you can say kick a few tires but until they have figured out which product they want and UNTIL they are READY to buy they would never waste both their own time or the time of those showing them the product and ask for or expect to get the "very best deal" as they know it totally useless if they are not ready to commit to purchasing. It is just odd to me that you would expect someone to offer up the "best" deal when your not ready since you yourself are a sales pro you would know this.
-
It is just odd to me that you would expect someone to offer up the "best" deal when your not ready since you yourself are a sales pro you would know this.
...and that is what gets me as well because I seriously doubt he said "I'm looking for your VERY best deal. I'll then think it over and after I go to the home show next month I'll let you know if I'm interested."
When someone knocks a spa salesmen for some sales tactic he doesn't like (sure, it happens) but then grinds for the best deal he can get (perfectly fine and what I would so also) when all along he isn't a serious buyer for another month and not letting that be known I can't help but roll my eyes. It's not that the customer has to be totally up front with his plans but he shouldn't knock one side for a less than straight forward approach when the customer has his own fingers crossed behind his back.
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.
-
I told mySundance dealer today that if she wanted to give me the home show price today, then I will be ready to buy now rather than wait until October (the fall homeshow) so long as she would promise me that she would refund me the difference if I saw a better price at the homeshow.
She told me that she had to talk to her manager and would get back to me.
As a recruiter, 2 days ago I found a guys resume that used to be a spa dealer and asked him some targeted questions. It was a very enlightening discussion. Apparently the homeshow price is a deal that can be done any day of the year.
I also asked her to fill up the spa I want to buy. She asked for a deposit. I told her if we could agree to a price, I would put down a deposit. So I am not just window shopping.
-
Good for her.
Has she given you the home show price yet?
Did you find a job for the exspa dealer?
Does he have any salable skills? :)
-
I think you've handled yourself admirably in this dealer's shooting gallery.
You've attempted to tap into the greatest mystery of mankind, far greater a mystery than whether there is a God, or even who shot JFK, no, the greatest mystery of all, the hottub dealer invoice.
It's no wonder the indians have come to circle the wagons and try to shoot you down.
You are right, this industry has forced you to play this "game", and you are doing nothing unethical or unfair. What's lost in these dealers' villification of your tactics, is the simple fact that any dealer can point blank tell you to piss off and that they do not want your business. It's silly that they can take things like this to the personal level and say things behind your back like "sure, I'll sell him the spa, but let's see him try to get service out of me". Talk about unethical! Nobody is forcing that dealer to sell the dammed spa in the first place. It kinda tells me that they have much more wiggle room than they let on from their listed prices.
Oh well, nice try on unveiling the great mystery Solo. Many others greater than you have tried and failed. Don't let it get you down. ;)
Of all the advice given so far though, go with the dealer whom you trust the most, if it is a matter of a few hundred bucks, you'll be happy you did.
But don't fall for the standard line that's already been thrown at you here in this thread at least 4 times already, "you won't care how much you paid once you're sitting in your new spa and soaking". That's just a line they use to justify their raping and pillage of the ignorant.
-
As a recruiter, 2 days ago I found a guys resume that used to be a spa dealer and asked him some targeted questions. It was a very enlightening discussion. Apparently the homeshow price is a deal that can be done any day of the year.
Not a broad statement of fact but maybe true with the employer he had. By your response in your post, I see that you took that as a fact that encompasses all dealers, everywhere. I thought you were sharper than that... ::)
I also asked her to fill up the spa I want to buy. She asked for a deposit. I told her if we could agree to a price, I would put down a deposit. So I am not just window shopping.
She's making sure you are serious so good on her! She sounds like seasoned pro and read you like a book.
-
I think you've handled yourself admirably in this dealer's shooting gallery.
But don't fall for the standard line that's already been thrown at you here in this thread at least 4 times already, "you won't care how much you paid once you're sitting in your new spa and soaking". That's just a line they use to justify their raping and pillage of the ignorant.
I think that comes from owners not salespeople...
-
I think you've handled yourself admirably in this dealer's shooting gallery.
You've attempted to tap into the greatest mystery of mankind, far greater a mystery than whether there is a God, or even who shot JFK, no, the greatest mystery of all, the hottub dealer invoice.
It's no wonder the indians have come to circle the wagons and try to shoot you down.
You are right, this industry has forced you to play this "game", and you are doing nothing unethical or unfair. What's lost in these dealers' villification of your tactics, is the simple fact that any dealer can point blank tell you to piss off and that they do not want your business. It's silly that they can take things like this to the personal level and say things behind your back like "sure, I'll sell him the spa, but let's see him try to get service out of me". Talk about unethical! Nobody is forcing that dealer to sell the dammed spa in the first place. It kinda tells me that they have much more wiggle room than they let on from their listed prices.
Oh well, nice try on unveiling the great mystery Solo. Many others greater than you have tried and failed. Don't let it get you down. ;)
Of all the advice given so far though, go with the dealer whom you trust the most, if it is a matter of a few hundred bucks, you'll be happy you did.
But don't fall for the standard line that's already been thrown at you here in this thread at least 4 times already, "you won't care how much you paid once you're sitting in your new spa and soaking". That's just a line they use to justify their raping and pillage of the ignorant.
You missed the point as well Rick...
I don't think anyone has ever said that a buyer should blatantly buy without considering price and overall value to the consumer.
The "unethical" part of this (and yes, it was me that suggested that), was that solo has got the cart ahead of the horse and negotiating price prior to understanding value, product differences and most importantly, he's not in a position to buy yet!
As I've said before... sit down and negotiate price IF you have reached that point and be prepared to act on it. Nothing wrong with that at all. He's not negotiating on anything right now but instead, blindly looking for a deal. That isn't intelligent shopping IMO, but rather a blatant, uneducated way to discount for no other reason than he feels that he should. No logic in that when you're not prepared to buy.
Steve
-
Solo...
I want to apply for a position with earnings of $150,000 annually. Can you hook me up with a few contacts and get me the job?
WHAT? You need to have my credentials first? :o You need to know my skill set first? :o You need to set up an app't with me to find out more? :o FORGET IT!! I just want a job that pays 150G's so go find it for me. I'll tell you the rest after you’ve got me the job, how's that?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Solo...
I want to apply for a position with earnings of $150,000 annually. Can you hook me up with a few contacts and get me the job?
WHAT? You need to have my credentials first? :o You need to know my skill set first? :o You need to set up an app't with me to find out more? :o FORGET IT!! I just want a job that pays 150G's so go find it for me. I'll tell you the rest after you’ve got me the job, how's that?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I don't trust you, go find another recruiter :)
-
I don't trust you, go find another recruiter :)
LOL!
I'm already there solo and was just making a point that maybe even YOU could relate to. Thanks anywho though! ;) Hopefully my point wasn't lost in the attempt at humor...
-
LOL!
I'm already there solo and was just making a point that maybe even YOU could relate to. Thanks anywho though! ;) Hopefully my point wasn't lost in the attempt at humor...
lol...I think most who got the laugh and your wits sharp edge.....nicely put.... :D
-
I told mySundance dealer today that if she wanted to give me the home show price today, then I will be ready to buy now rather than wait until October (the fall homeshow) so long as she would promise me that she would refund me the difference if I saw a better price at the homeshow.
Very good but I was referring to the Hot Springs dealer who you got to give to a $7000 price (below the previous sales price quoted) after haggling and stating you didn't trust him/her?
It sounds like you learned from your experience with one dealer and made a better approach with the next dealer. That's a very wise appraoch IMO because it conveys to the dealer that you are both serious about wanting a good price and willing to wait if you don't get it but being completely up front about your plans.
-
It sounds like you learned from your experience with one dealer and made a better approach with the next dealer. That's a very wise appraoch IMO because it conveys to the dealer that you are both serious about wanting a good price and willing to wait if you don't get it but being completely up front about your plans.
Humm its seems to me I read that somewhere before, about just being upfront and when you are most of the time you can work out a deal that is fair for both parties..... 8-)
-
Humm its seems to me I read that somewhere before, about just being upfront and when you are most of the time you can work out a deal that is fair for both parties..... 8-)
[size=36]WADDA CONCEPT!!![/size] ;)
-
On behalf of all the kind and generous folks at HotSpring Spas, we welcome you with open arms! :)
Term
Not in your store ;D ;D
-
It is important to most people that they do get a good deal, but there comes a time when too much is too much. If all you care about is getting a great price then go to your nearest Costco and buy from there. quote]
Here it is------ costco------- if you see a better price 10 years down the road you can return your tub and go for the new one.
-
I find it strange out of all the dealers that are probably in your area that you chose a Sundance and a H,Springs dealer,which is fine as they are quality spas. Whats strange is you are looking for a quality spa at the best price possible?? You chose not to shop the Jacuzzi dealer because you didnt like her quoting a price out of the book over the phone? Yet you didnt go see what the have to offer or even give them a chance to come up with a better price?
Did you check anybody else out Marquis? Beachcomber? Arctic? Artesian? All decent spas with great offerings and prices, did you give them a chance?
In the Jacuzzi line which I am sure you know owns Sundance,the Hamilton sets up like the J-365 but its gonna cost more than you want to spend? I suggested I think to you? The J-270/J-280 which I know will be less than the Hamilton with almost the same offerings at a lower price,did you check them out?
For a person like yourself, looking for a great spa with a low price, you narrowed it down pretty quick without giving others a chance? Which is fine, its your choice. But I find it odd you didnt give anybody else a chance?It appears your not in a hurry so why not research them and find out? Maybe you have and have just not told us?
Should add it doesnt really matter to me either way more or less curious so dont take it as an attack on you.
One other thing would be all the dealers and sales people here are great and have given you advice and told you what a fair price is for a spa in there eyes and from past experience. Every place/store/area of the country is different. I have seen prices people have paid for Jacuzzis elsewhere and said WTF! Thats a fantastic price and us as a dealer would never go that low for anyone.
I guess what I am trying to say is dont think the people here (me included) you are conversing with are sleazy back stabbing,lying salesman!! Except that Term guy ;) :) We really dont care where you buy a spa from, but are trying to give you information and advice from our standpoint and what we have seen in the industry. Dont go away bitter about the advice you have gotten here,its easy to get in a heated discussion about any spa subject. I believe it is the best forum as far as advice chemical wise and technical information goes on the internet thats related to spa's.
I will get off my soap box now,good luck with your purchase :) Sorry for the poke in the ribs Term!
-
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/wtfjim.jpg)
-
^^^ Term, you are a RIOT! ^^^
I told mySundance dealer today that if she wanted to give me the home show price today, then I will be ready to buy now rather than wait until October (the fall homeshow) so long as she would promise me that she would refund me the difference if I saw a better price at the homeshow.
She told me that she had to talk to her manager and would get back to me.
As a recruiter, 2 days ago I found a guys resume that used to be a spa dealer and asked him some targeted questions. It was a very enlightening discussion. Apparently the homeshow price is a deal that can be done any day of the year.
I also asked her to fill up the spa I want to buy. She asked for a deposit. I told her if we could agree to a price, I would put down a deposit. So I am not just window shopping.
Seems like a better approach but still a bit of "do this and I'll do that" going on (Fill up a tub for me...OK, but only if your willing to put down a deposit....OK, but only if your willing to give me any "Homeshow" pricing....OK, but only....
Such nit-picking may be fine (and even cherished) by some but it's not really my cup of tea. If I were in Spa sales and had a unit you were interested in on the floor, I'd fill it up and THEN try to work out the details. It's not like it looses any (additional) value if it's been filled up or not (since it IS a showroom piece), right? However, it does sound like this lady is trying to do what she can. One risk here is the same you may have in your industry. If I was the store owner, I'd probably pay her only partial commissions if you bought today. The reason is that should he get some additional discount from the mfg during the show, he may not be able to make up that difference on the unit he has on the floor. How many sales reps want to wait an extra 3 months for their commission on something they sold this week? Not many/any. If I were the salesperson I'd say "Here's my VERY BEST price TODAY." You are welcome to wait until the show to see if we have a better price at that time but I cannot guarantee any "potential" discount. As long as they are confident in their spa's value, they shouldn't be in any rush to prevent you from seeing the others at the show (if there are any. Just remember that some of those shows are shams with only a single, deceptive dealer participating who's name is MasterSpa...at least that was the way it was here in Charlotte NC in 2005).
-
With any luck he'll end up buying from Jim....
-
^^^ Term, you are a RIOT! ^^^
Such nit-picking may be fine (and even cherished) by some but it's not really my cup of tea. If I were in Spa sales and had a unit you were interested in on the floor, I'd fill it up and THEN try to work out the details. It's not like it looses any (additional) value if it's been filled up or not (since it IS a showroom piece), right? .
Now that's interesting as I have posted about this some time ago, We treat non wet showrooms much the same as a spa that sits in the warehouse but once we fill it, it is a demo spa at that point, when I asked before both dealers and consumers agreed that they pretty much felt that was a fair way to go.
We will do a little extra for it being on the floor but not what we would do if it had been filled.
-
It's like you guys have banded together to make the consumer feel bad about negotiating a good deal. I notice that I have NEVER seen a single one of you advise a consumer that thery could get a better price. It's always: "BUY IT".
So pardon me if I don't trust you.
Okay, I had to respond to this. Here is what I advised you long, long ago on a totally different string:
Re: Anyone have pricing on a Hotsprings Sovereign
Reply #2 - Sep 3rd, 2007, 4:01pm Quote
If you are talking about the 220V Sovereign, you are probably in the right ballpark. I've seen the white Sovereign go for as low as $5995, but that is in their old Classic Series. If your dealer took off $400 and brought it down to $7195, make him a counter offer and see if he'll do anything else. However, you have a pretty good price.
So, not everyone has said just buy it. However, those who have know a bit about of which they speak. Nobody is trying to coerce you into buying a spa at a price that is higher than you should pay. The salespeople here know what they sell their spas for and about what their competition sell their spas for. Not one person on this forum will make one penny for their advice. I think they believe you truly have been offered a good price on a Sovereign.
I don't work for a manufacturer, a store or anything closely related. I used to work for a manufacturer so I have a pretty good base of knowledge.
A Sovereign at $6995 is a great price. Go back and ask the HSS dealer if he'll guarantee his price through the Home Show. Ask him if you see a better price between now and then, will he refund you the difference. If he will, then you should get it in writing and know you have a good deal. You'll also know if a better deal is presented at the home show, you'll get the price.
Shouldn't that take your comfort level up a notch? If I were your dealer, my response would basically be, "If I can do that, will you go ahead and purchase the spa?" You'll need to know at that point if you are willing.
This string has gotten fairly heated. I think everyone should chill and let Solo make his deal.
-
With any luck he'll end up buying from Jim....
Thanks for making soda come out of my nose.
We all know that "Jim the Jim" is the only honest spa dealer in the entire universe.
-
Okay...Fair enough Solo....Good luck in your search....When you do get that spa....Shoot some photo's....I for one love to see how creative people can be with there set-up.
Good Luck with your search.
-
This string has gotten fairly heated. I think everyone should chill and let Solo make his deal.
Well said!!! AMEN and AMEN. Let's call it a night. I think we've all had quite a enough of SOLO. He doesn't want to take anyone's advice anyway.
-
Solo , if you think your being scammed by these dealers try searching for a used hot tub and I'm sure you'll find one in a lower overall price range with money left over for any repairs most things can be fixed by a do-it yourselfer if you can handle these simple tasks
-
Now that's interesting as I have posted about this some time ago, We treat non wet showrooms much the same as a spa that sits in the warehouse but once we fill it, it is a demo spa at that point, when I asked before both dealers and consumers agreed that they pretty much felt that was a fair way to go.
We will do a little extra for it being on the floor but not what we would do if it had been filled.
Hmm, iinteresting. Not certain why the water makes that much of a difference. it's not like you would keep the water in it. It's not a Mercedes whose warranty starts the day it gets registered to a buyer. This unit is still a dealer possession. Little or no decrease in (actual) value, right?
It would be for a test soak and then emptied once more. Cost of water... $10.00? Now I guess I "could" see the filters as having been "used" but c'mon, it's a spa dealership. Should have plenty of those around and the cost should be more than $30 or so as well. If I were a dealer, that is what I would do but I'm not a dealer so maybe there more to it than that which I have outlined here. In either case, there's a bottom line on any spa, showroom or warehouse. From his posts here I don't think Solo would object to getting a "demo" off the floor because his #1 objective is all around price anyway, right?
-
I was just stating that when we fill a spa we than would offer a special price on it, for us it becomes a demo unit, a dry unit that still has all of the stickers on it is pretty much the same as one in the warehouse. We just try and be fair with people and treat them in the same way we would like to treated as cliche as that might sound.
As for Solo. I picked up many pages ago that he was not ready to buy and had not settled on the spa he wants, I am just puzzled that someone in a sales position would even care to push for best a price as they are not ready to buy. I wish him well in his hunt.
-
Hmm, iinteresting. Not certain why the water makes that much of a difference. it's not like you would keep the water in it. It's not a Mercedes whose warranty starts the day it gets registered to a buyer. This unit is still a dealer possession. Little or no decrease in (actual) value, right?
It would be for a test soak and then emptied once more. Cost of water... $10.00? Now I guess I "could" see the filters as having been "used" but c'mon, it's a spa dealership. Should have plenty of those around and the cost should be more than $30 or so as well. If I were a dealer, that is what I would do but I'm not a dealer so maybe there more to it than that which I have outlined here. In either case, there's a bottom line on any spa, showroom or warehouse. From his posts here I don't think Solo would object to getting a "demo" off the floor because his #1 objective is all around price anyway, right?
It's common practice and driven by consumer demands that any spa filled and tested at "the dealer level", is now considered slightly used and therefore discounts are expected.
Not all dealers do but I believe most do discount them by varying degrees.
Steve
-
Most of the dealers I visited when spa shopping kept their floor models all season, and cleared them out when the model years changed.
Usually at some type of year end clearance event or something. Other than that I don't think they were too keen on selling the ones on the floor.
-
Most of the dealers I visited when spa shopping kept their floor models all season, and cleared them out when the model years changed.
Usually at some type of year end clearance event or something. Other than that I don't think they were too keen on selling the ones on the floor.
Large volume dealers might do that because they can afford to keep them on the floor. A lot of dealers will sell off the floor. Many will discount it if has had water in it.