Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Kaisermust on August 14, 2007, 09:25:54 pm
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The more we shop, the more uncertain we are as to brand. We're pretty much sold on getting a thermopane spa vs full/partial foam (no need to get opinions here on what's better). I would like to hear though from thermopane insulated spa owners and what brand they chose and how energy efficient it is. We live in upstate NY and intend to use our spa year round. This is our first spa and hope we'll have it for many years. Pros and cons on the brand you chose would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. :-/
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I bought an Arctic, and wrote a full review in the review section. It is under Arctic Summit Legend.
I think my tub costs $20-30/month
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I own a Hydrospa and a couple of my friends own Gulf Coast spas. We all like our spas as far as performance. They do cost a lot to operate in winter though ($70-$85/mo). I had to fix two kinked (bent) hoses in my Hydro. All three of us had to add extra insulation and seal up all of the air leaks in the cabinets. I was sold on thermal-pane spas because I think they are a good idea in theory. Now with experience, I really think they are not as good unless the manufacture uses more then just foam panels and bubble foil for insulation. They also need to seal up the cabinets better. What good is insulation if the cabinet has huge openings everywhere for cold air to enter? I’m considering having the shell underside sprayed with foam after the warranty is gone.
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If you're set on TP, you can't go wrong with Coleman or Arctic.
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We just got the Coleman 481 a week ago. It'll be awhile before we know how much power it's using, as we're not running the heater now (folks, it's HOT outside!). Right now it's at 99 degrees and we had it set at 80. The cover seems to be very sturdy and thick, and seals well.
We got the Deluxe package with the air pump and multicolor LED lights - very cool! With Jets 2 on "high", the air pump running, and the diverter turned towards the deep seat, the massage action is very aggressive (very useful after a long day at work or working in the yard). It only takes 10 min or so before my back feels better on this setting, so after that I scale back on the intensity. Mine also came with calf jets in the lounger (not present on the floor model I tested while shopping).
After all my preparation issues, it's nice to finally be in spatopia ;D
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Being from Upstate NY as well I know what the winters are like. Most TP spas talk about a similar insulating approach but not all TP spas insulate well so if you're really set on going this route I would lean toward the Arctic vs. the other 3 options listed as I trust their method more. The difference between a well insulated spa and a poorly insulated one in winter time can be $100/month so take that into account if you're weighing a premium spa versus some of the TP spas out there that can be real energy hogs.
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I would lean toward the Arctic vs. the other 3 options listed as I trust their method more. The difference between a well insulated spa and a poorly insulated one in winter time can be $100/month so take that into account if you're weighing a premium spa versus some of the TP spas out there that can be real energy hogs.[/quote]
This is very true. are TP spa unwraped can cost 100 bucks or more a month depending on the set temp and outside temp,Never mind the Wind chill factor.
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Based on what people have said here defintely Arctic as a choice.
Look at Coleman as people say good things about them.
There are a few people here with Emerald and like them.
All are TP spas.
Emerald has 3 levels of insulation and when I was looking at them I was planning on the top level. It has sprayed on along with foil/bubble skirt wrap.
There is a thread on here of an Arctic Coyote spa and it seems to have a nice foam exterior.
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TP spa unwraped can cost 100 bucks or more a month depending on the set temp and outside temp,Never mind the Wind chill factor.
Maybe instead of Thermopane VS Full Foam, the debate should be Thermopane vs Thermopain.
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Brewman, who do you say thermopane is a "thermopain"? Curious, please enlighten me. I thought TP spas are much easier to find and repair a leak if you have one?
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Brewman, who do you say thermopane is a "thermopain"? Curious, please enlighten me. I thought TP spas are much easier to find and repair a leak if you have one?
Kaisermust,
I don't want to highjack your thread because you said you were set on a TP spa rather than full foam, but I have had two Hot Spring tubs over the last 12 years, and a friend of mine has a 16 year old Hot Spring. We have never had a leak in any of these tubs. I realize its just our limited experience, but given the recurring problems I read about with a bad TP insulation situation vs. a potential leak in a reputable full foam tub, I would go with Full Foam. Especially in light of the recent escalating cost of electricity. I think the fear of a leak in a full foam tub is very overblown from what I read here and on other forums.
Good luck with your ultimate decision!
Rich
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It was an attempt at a joke. It was in reference to Spatech T.U.O.'s post on poorly constructed thermopane spas that leak air like a sieve. Bad thermopane = thermopain.
This subject gets brought up a lot, and often ends in bickering oversthe merits of one method of insulation (thermopane or whatever the particular manufacturer calls it) versus the other (full foam).
Yes, it's possible that a non full foamed spa might be easier to locate and repair leaks- in some cases. But that, in my opinion isn't a valid reason to rule out a good spa that you otherwise like.
Facts:
Spa leaks are most often in the area around the pumps/equipment bay and therefore the supposed advantage of TP is moot.
If the spa develops a leak in the plumbing deeper inside the cabinet it can cost more to repair in a full foamed spa. BUT- the foam better supports the plumbing, and therefore it's less likely to leak.
A good quality spa (regardless of insulation method) isn't going to be leak prone to begin with.
Cheap spas are often of the TP design because it's cheaper to execute- but the cheap spas have leaky cabinets. Any outside air infiltrating into the cabinet will greatly reduce or eliminate your insulation, resulting in an essentially uninsulated spa. That's why it's important to choose a spa brand with a good reputation.
In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter very much which type of insulation method is used. If done well, they both work fine. If done poorly, they both can suck. But that's a function of manufacturing quality, not of the concept.
If the only reason you are considering TP is because of the leak thing, you are missing out on some possibly great spas.
Don't be swayed by negative advertising or salesmanship from anyone.
The leak scare thing is a common example of negative salesmanship, IMHO.
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It was an attempt at a joke. It was in reference to Spatech T.U.O.'s post on poorly constructed thermopane spas that leak air like a sieve. Bad thermopane = thermopain.
This subject gets brought up a lot, and often ends in bickering oversthe merits of one method of insulation (thermopane or whatever the particular manufacturer calls it) versus the other (full foam).
Yes, it's possible that a non full foamed spa might be easier to locate and repair leaks- in some cases. But that, in my opinion isn't a valid reason to rule out a good spa that you otherwise like.
Facts:
Spa leaks are most often in the area around the pumps/equipment bay and therefore the supposed advantage of TP is moot.
If the spa develops a leak in the plumbing deeper inside the cabinet it can cost more to repair in a full foamed spa. BUT- the foam better supports the plumbing, and therefore it's less likely to leak.
A good quality spa (regardless of insulation method) isn't going to be leak prone to begin with.
Cheap spas are often of the TP design because it's cheaper to execute- but the cheap spas have leaky cabinets. Any outside air infiltrating into the cabinet will greatly reduce or eliminate your insulation, resulting in an essentially uninsulated spa. That's why it's important to choose a spa brand with a good reputation.
In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter very much which type of insulation method is used. If done well, they both work fine. If done poorly, they both can suck. But that's a function of manufacturing quality, not of the concept.
If the only reason you are considering TP is because of the leak thing, you are missing out on some possibly great spas.
Don't be swayed by negative advertising or salesmanship from anyone.
The leak scare thing is a common example of negative salesmanship, IMHO.
I agree. If you are not considering full foam spas because it is more difficult to find a leak I think your missing out on some of the best the industry has to offer. Almost all the major and certainly the top selling manufacturers utilize full foam insulation and it is not because they like fixing leaks...remember they own them for the first five years. The better manufacturers insulate well weather full foam or thermopane. If you stick the majors you will have some good spas to choose from.
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I also have a home in upstate NY, in the northern Catskill Mountains (ski country) and it does get cold in the winter. I also bought an Arctic, Tundra legend SE, just for the reasons that you are worried about. Have had it now just about a year and a half and love it. Tubbing with 3 feet of snow and -10 was a blast, once you get into the tub. The water stayed at 101 all winter long with no problems. I would say that it costs me about $30 a month, on average. Matter of fact, it is so well insulated that the only problem that I have is in the summer, trying to keep the water temp in the mid 90's. The pumps alone keep the temp from dropping below 94 degrees. Good luck in your search!
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LOL, Catskills are downstate:0) anything below rt90 is down state:0) Just busting on you.
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Yeah, but when you live down in the City, anything above the Cross Westchester Expressway is Upstate. ;) LOL.
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when you live on lake Ontario anything below you is downstate, which is about 80% of the state but 95% of the population:0)
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Matter of fact, it is so well insulated that the only problem that I have is in the summer, trying to keep the water temp in the mid 90's. The pumps alone keep the temp from dropping below 94 degrees. Good luck in your search!
Thats a problem we all have, lol. Tough to keep it under 100 in the summer. Thats why spas don't work real well as pools unless you prop the cover up.
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I also bought an Arctic, Tundra legend SE.... Matter of fact, it is so well insulated that the only problem that I have is in the summer, trying to keep the water temp in the mid 90's. The pumps alone keep the temp from dropping below 94 degrees.
Arctic offers a couple of solutions to this.
The first is the louvred, screened summer door. Photographer Robert LaPalme (www.robertlapalme.com) of Quebec recently posted three nice photos.
(http://www.robertlapalme.com/Photo/spa42.JPG)
(http://www.robertlapalme.com/Photo/spa43.JPG)
(http://www.robertlapalme.com/Photo/spa44.JPG)
The second solution is the Chiller, shown below. This solid-state device has no plumbing connections, so it's easy to add to any Arctic spa. It works by cooling the air inside your cabinet, which in turn cools the shell and the water. Perimeter Heatlock insulation continues to work for you by keeping the cool in and the hot out. (I tried hard not to make this sound like a sales pitch. If I failed, please forgive me.)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s173/ArcticTom/Chillerstraight.jpg
) (Photo Credit: Arctic Spas Marketing Dept.)
The summer 07 edition of Arctic Splash, our consumer newsletter, featured an article on keeping your Arctic Spa cool. You can find it on the corporate site.
It's ironic that, after working so hard to keep the heat in, we had to come up with ways to get the heat out!
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The first is the louvred, screened summer door. Photographer Robert LaPalme (www.robertlapalme.com) of Quebec recently posted three nice photos.
(http://www.robertlapalme.com/Photo/spa42.JPG)
(http://www.robertlapalme.com/Photo/spa43.JPG)
(http://www.robertlapalme.com/Photo/spa44.JPG)
The second solution is the Chiller, shown below. This solid-state device has no plumbing connections, so it's easy to add to any Arctic spa. It works by cooling the air inside your cabinet, which in turn cools the shell and the water. Perimeter Heatlock insulation continues to work for you by keeping the cool in and the hot out. (I tried hard not to make this sound like a sales pitch. If I failed, please forgive me.)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s173/ArcticTom/Chillerstraight.jpg
) (Photo Credit: Arctic Spas Marketing Dept.)
The summer 07 edition of Arctic Splash, our consumer newsletter, featured an article on keeping your Arctic Spa cool. You can find it on the corporate site.
It's ironic that, after working so hard to keep the heat in, we had to come up with ways to get the heat out![/quote]
Sweet looking skirts :)
John
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Hey Kaisermust, we bought the Coyote Renegade about 2 months ago and we use the spa 40 to 80 mins a night and the hydro bill was about 30 dollars more and I wouldn't expect to pay any more then that in the winter and we live in Ontario. We will use it for less time in the winter but the tub is so efficient that it will be cheap to run. We
couldn't afford the Arctic but have been very happy with the model we have, lots of room, lots of great jets, and very hot water, all you need. We have the tub set of 99 degrees and the heater never turns on and when we get out the tub is around 102. :) :) :) Good luck with your shopping,
Pete
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Nice pictures. I love Arctic's wood cabinet.