Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Steelerpete on June 09, 2007, 11:05:50 am
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Hi, I'm in the process of shopping for a spa and the Coyote line from Arctic is what we are looking at any opinions out there on these tubs.
Thanks,
Pete
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I have an Arctic, and love it. I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have. I reviewed my tub in the "review" section too. That was after having it a few months, and now it has been about 1 1/2 years, and I am still extremely pleased with the purchase.
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Thanks for the reply, I'm from Canada and Arctic is a popular brand here. I like the open cabinet design for future service if it is required. What are the jets like? Did you see a huge difference in your hydro bill?
Thanks,
Pete
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I find the jets well placed and there is a lot of variety seat to seat. There are a couple of jets that seem to "like" to rotate themselves off, but I know which two they are, so I check them as I sit in the seat. I bought the tub for both fun and therapy, as I tend to get a lot of achy muscles from activity and stress. I have a lot less soreness and better sleep patterns than I used to! I do have a model with a lot of jets- it was a floor model, and has bells and whistles that I would not have otherwise been able to buy. It is a 2005 tub that I got in very early '06. For the first several of months that I had the tub my energy bill was about $25-$35 more. Since then, I have not tried to accurately gauge extra $$ for the tub in my bill, as rates have gone up, and I haven't bothered to calculate KWH. My energy usage would likely be different than yours, as I'm in CA!
I love the cedar cabinet, and it doesnt not look weathered at all. My cedar stairs do need yearly sanding/restaining to look nice, but that doesnt bother me. The cover seems as good as the day I got it, but it should- it is only two years old.
Any other questions, feel free to throw them my way.
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Any other questions, feel free to throw them my way.
How often do you soak in the buff? :-*
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How often do you soak in the buff? :-*
every single day, day or night. ;) :-*
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How often do you soak in the buff? :-*
Chad, What does it matter to you. You are way to young to appreciate the ageless beauty of a more mature lady. Leave that to us that have been around several generations. ;D
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Hey! I'm not THAT mature!!!!!!! :-X :'( >:( ;D
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Once a woman hits 28-30 years it is time to trade in for a younger sportier model.
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Once a woman hits 28-30 years it is time to trade in for a younger sportier model.
Hey Gary, what about "only educated opinions"? ;)
I'm not bothered, though, because most women once they hit 28-30 are ready to trade in theirs as well for something more stable and classy. 8-)
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Once a woman hits 28-30 years it is time to trade in for a younger sportier model.
Hey we haven't even reached our sexual prime yet at 30.... you would be sadly mistaken to trade us in now.
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I live in Canada and love my arctic. I have had very few issues in almsot 2 years of use. I enjoy the look and the molded seating. The tub is well constructed and well designed IN MY OPINION. My hydro bill was very minor increase. But you need to remember when you spend the kind of money that you are looking at, all the top brands will give you relatively the same hydro costs.
As per the coyotte spas. They are nice, they are arctics B line so to speak. I saw their first year production and thought that they honestly looked very cheap. This year I have noticed that they look a little nicer but still not as nice as the arctic line. Spend sometime and research before you buy. I dont know how much you can afford but consider looking into the arctic line.
It will still be good quality product but wont have the nice look of the arctic and some quality I assume will be compromised.
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I would agree with Bosco about the knowing the ALL the differences between the main line and the entry level...At times dealers don't make that clear and what you get is not what you thought you were buying.
As far as liking the cabinet design for easy maintenance later...don't let that be the deciding factor. We work on all brands and that system has it's flaws also....
Look at the spa for history of service and longevity of manufacturing, not who has the best sales pitch or gimmick.
I think Artic makes a fine spa but I also think that for the price there are a lot of other brands to also consider and I’m not so comfortable with their marketing…It always concerns me when dealers of any brand have a tendency to use questionable stories and marketing to sell the product.
Choose 3 or three other brands as well as Arctic and then pick them apart…Warranty, longevity, comfort, ease of use and what features really matter.
Then wet test!! At the end of the day three things matter the most…hot clean water, comfortable seating and good jets. If you open that spa and it is not hot and clean your not getting in. If you struggle to stay in the seats you will use it less and less. If the jets are weak or even to harsh and piercing or not placed well you won’t be as thrilled with using them. We all have to justify our power usage, frames, warranties and maintenance but your not thinking about those as you soak.
Good luck
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Hey Gary, what about "only educated opinions"? ;)
I'm not bothered, though, because most women once they hit 28-30 are ready to trade in theirs as well for something more stable and classy. 8-)
Just trying inject a little humor (and I do me a little humor). ;D
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No worries, Gary.
Steelerpete, I agree that you have to make sure that the features of the Coyote spas will fit your needs. I cannot compare the two, as the dealer that I bought mine from only had Arctic. I dont know what the price/quality threshold is between the two, or if energy costs could vary, etc.
Good luck!
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It [Coyote] will still be good quality product but wont have the nice look of the arctic and some quality I assume will be compromised.
Well, we think it's not too much of a compromise. Perhaps one of our dealers will comment. Chris? Guru?
There are a number of similarities between the two lines:
- self-supporting shell,
- perimeter insulation,
- total access,
- energy-efficient design,
- available with cabinet options including cedar, "no-maintenance" Eon, and Lexan
- sealed and insulated floor.
There are some important differences:
- Coyote has more cabinet options at the moment;
- 2" of polyurethane insulation vs 3" in Arctic;
- Durathane floor vs pressure-moulded fiberglass floor;
- more open seating;
- some models have 110V option
- simpler controls
- fewer available acrylic colors;
- jet configurations are fixed (one level)
- fewer options
- less extensive warranty;
- and of course, lower price points.
I hope I did a good enough job of this. Readers are invited to check the lineup, warranty, etc. at www.coyotespas.com
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Hi, all great info. I was told that the Coyote line uses the same components ( motors, heater, plumbing, etc. ) but you save the money on a weaker warranty 3 years not 5 and less options so they can pump them out of factory faster making them more affordable. The same jet count with cedar is in the 13k+ tax range for the Arctic, where the Coyote is 9k all in. I'm pricing the Renegade model. This will be my first tub and shopping is very hard, different stories at every dealer so all the advice is greatly appreciated. Now I was told today not to get the Ozone option because it corrodes the plumbing and cover???? We dry tested the tub on Saturday and it felt great now we are going to wet test soon. If you have any recommendations please post. Thanks.
Pete
http://www.coyotespas.com/models.php
P.S. Any opinions on the air blower for bubbles I was told that they are noisy and suck the air out of the cabinet. Now this wasn't the Arctic dealer telling me this??? I will see the Arctic dealer tomorrow.
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Now I was told today not to get the Ozone option because it corrodes the plumbing and cover????
Any opinions on the air blower for bubbles I was told that they are noisy and suck the air out of the cabinet.
My opinios:
1) Ozone does not alter the plumbing. It will discolor the bottom of the cover faster but that's no big deal IMO. People replace their cover every 4-5 yrs (or so) but not because of discoloration on the bottom side.
2) I'm not a blower fan at all. IMO, they are noisy and just cool the water down (not a bad thing in July maybe) and other than making the water look more turbulent and showy on the sales floor I don't see what they add. Other people disagree and like them. Not really a big deal though because if you don't like it, just don't turn it on!
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I'm a fan of the air blower! I dont use it in the middle of winter when cooling the water off seems silly, but the rest of the year, I enjoy it. I probably spend 35% of my time with no jets, 65% with jets, and maybe 1/4 of that time with with jets *and* blower. While I dont use it often, I like it when I do. It is a little noisy, though.
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Thanks for the Ozone and blower info, went to see the Hot Springs dealer today and they have a 2006 Envoy model left for 9900+ tax and that includes the cover+ lifter+ matching steps+ deliver and set up, does this seem like a fair price???
Pete
P.S. The dealer says that is tub has to be put on a concrete pad, any comments??? We have a 20'x20' patio with 18"x18" patio stones that are 2" thick and about 6" of gravel underneath. They have been down for 6yrs and haven't moved at all due to frost. Will this be a good surface??
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Thanks for the Ozone and blower info, went to see the Hot Springs dealer today and they have a 2006 Envoy model left for 9900+ tax and that includes the cover+ lifter+ matching steps+ deliver and set up, does this seem like a fair price???
Pete
P.S. The dealer says that is tub has to be put on a concrete pad, any comments??? We have a 20'x20' patio with 18"x18" patio stones that are 2" thick and about 6" of gravel underneath. They have been down for 6yrs and haven't moved at all due to frost. Will this be a good surface??
If that $9900 is Canadian dollars, jump on it as it is an excellent price. We sell the 2007 Envoy for that price in USD.
I would say that your patio is sufficient based upon what you described, although I admit to having no practical experience with permafrost.
Good luck with whichever spa you choose! :)
Terminator
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P.S. Any opinions on the air blower for bubbles I was told that they are noisy and suck the air out of the cabinet. Now this wasn't the Arctic dealer telling me this??? I will see the Arctic dealer tomorrow.
My guess is that whoever said this sells spas without blowers ;). I enjoy the blower in the summer, but it would not be a deal breaker. It is very popular when there a lot of people in the spa.
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We have a blower, I could take it or leave it, SWMBO loves it. Go figure.
You don't have it- you won't miss it. You have it and don't like it- don't use it.
It's certainly nothing to fret over one way or another.
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My new tub has the air blower.
I don't think it add's anything to the therapy of the tub. The air agaisnt the skin give's a cooling sensation, but I agree with Brewman, I wouldn't fret over it.
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If energy efficiency or a quiet operation of the spa is important to a consumer, I can't see the benefit of a blower... :-/
In 10 years, I can count on one hand how many people went with that option in the tubs I sold...
The REAL benefit of a blower IMO...
For weaker tubs, they make the water really move for a showroom display... ;)
Steve
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Some spas, like my Optima just come with it.
It's integrated into the aroma therapy contraption, which to me isn't much more than a sales gimmic- I can't detect too much aroma from those beads.
And it does add to the noise, but only when it's on.
Usually, it's not.
Noise reminds me of what I'd expect to hear if you used a vacuum cleaner to power a large bong.
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Noise reminds me of what I'd expect to hear if you used a vacuum cleaner to power a large bong.
Why that's exactly how my friend described it.
Wtf?
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I like it for the way it gets the water moving, and all I hear is lots of bubbling. I'd not use it much with company, but I like the "white noise" effect.
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Hi all, well we bought the Coyote-Renegade and we loved the wet test ;D. The tub was very spacious plus the sit down lounger was fantastic. Now, a quick question regarding the Arctic chemicals does the owners of the Arctic spas use them and can anyone give me some heads up info. for the best product out there to make this as easy as can be, first time owner!! so all advice would be great.
Thanks,
Pete :)
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Congrats on the tub.
I can't speak of Arctic chems but Doc has great prices. Decide if you want to try bromine or chlorine.
Alkalinity up is baking soda. I use it to raise both PH and alkalinity, my water responds to it in both.
Not all dichlor (if you go that route) is alike, there is different strengths - they all may say 99% dichlor but it's the active chlorine that's important. Stay away from walmart, their "spa chlorine" is cal hypo - do not use!
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I have been using arctic chemicals since day 1. I use the disposable filters so I dont need clarifier, scale etc. It is not required.
I use bromine tabs, that arctic sells, I believe that they are spa boss chemicals. I use arctic refresh which is the 'shock'. I also use perfect balance by arctic for alk and ph up and down which I never use.
Every week, I add some tabs to the brominator, I shock once a week or after a heavy use, I add 2 capfuls of perfect balance as the bromine causes my alk to drop. That is it. No more or less.
Some people may disagree, and I would not expect this to be considered as the gospel. It works for me and it is easy. REALLY EASY.
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I have been using arctic chemicals since day 1. I use the disposable filters so I dont need clarifier, scale etc. It is not required.
I use bromine tabs, that arctic sells, I believe that they are spa boss chemicals. I use arctic refresh which is the 'shock'. I also use perfect balance by arctic for alk and ph up and down which I never use.
Every week, I add some tabs to the brominator, I shock once a week or after a heavy use, I add 2 capfuls of perfect balance as the bromine causes my alk to drop. That is it. No more or less.
Some people may disagree, and I would not expect this to be considered as the gospel. It works for me and it is easy. REALLY EASY.
Bosco, how does that work? No scale, no clairifer? I thought disposable filters ment you didn't clean them, but I don't understand how they elimiate the need for scale or clairifier?
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Drewstar,
Some disposables filter finer than regular filters.
I also think it depends on the water. I can't compare Bosco's water to mine but I don't use scaler as my water comes out of the tap very soft. As far as clarifier, if I keep up with the water I don't need it either.
What Bosco says is true - there is no gospel in water care, it's whatever works for an individual.
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Drewstar,
Some disposables filter finer than regular filters.
I also think it depends on the water. I can't compare Bosco's water to mine but I don't use scaler as my water comes out of the tap very soft. As far as clarifier, if I keep up with the water I don't need it either.
What Bosco says is true - there is no gospel in water care, it's whatever works for an individual.
I read it as he attributed it to the fiters and that his filters, either due to the fact that they were disposable or had a smaller pore size eliminated the need for scale or clairifers. I didn't think pore size could do that, and wanted to understand it better.
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drewster, I was told that when I use the disposable filters, not to add clariffier or scale. The explanation that I was explained was that the filter will get clogged up quickly and ruined. It is my unerstanding that some chemicals clump material together so they are bigger and that the pleated filter can pick it up better.
Now I know that there has been serious debate over the past whether or not disposable micropure filters actually have the abillity to filter down to one micron. I dont know the answer and dont really care to know.
I just know that every 4 to 5 months I add a new one and thats it. I was told never to add scale or stain, clarifiers and never to use the chems to clean the filter.
I must say, I have yet to have an issue with clarity or scale and stain problems. I mean this honestly, absolutely never.
here is the info from the website.
Micron Filters
Pool and spa filtration has gone to a new level with the Micron Disposable filters.
Filtration is based on 2 standards elements, Micron Rating (The size of the particles that are being filtered) and Efficiency (The percentage of particles above a certain size that are stopped by the filter), not square ft of filtration. Our micron disposable filters have the highest rating in both Micron and Efficiency Rating than any pool and spa filter on the market today.
What Disposable Filters Can Offer That Cartridges Can Not:
No filter cleaning needed with costly and dangerous filter cleaners.
Lower density at the surface of the filter with progressively higher density towards the center.
Particles are trapped throughout the entire cross section of the filter, creating superior dirt-holding capacity.
Patented thermally-bonded blown microfibre process assures consistent performance, filter to filter.
No leachables or extractable's, the filter holds onto all that it filters.
Inert material means broad chemical compatibility.
Lower maintenance time and costs.
Longer Optimum Filter Life Expectancy.
Increased Filtration
Filters faster and more efficiently than any other spa filter on the market.
Quicker water recovery after heavy use, takes contaminants out of water before they build-up and cause a decrease in sanitizers.
Lasts 2 -3 times longer than your standard cartridge filter.
Eliminates the need for Defoamers, Clarifiers, Cleaners, Enzymes and Descummers.
Chemicals last longer with less contaminants in the water, Less chemical problems and longer water life.
Removes solids in water and lowers your TDS on a constant basis.
Takes out minerals, stopping buildup on your equipment and heater, extending the life of your equipment.
Directions on use:
Micron disposable filters are meant to last from 2-5 months depending on use and chemicals added. To get maximum filter life with crystal clear water you do not need to use enzymes, brighteners, clarifiers, coagulating agents, or stain & scale preventers. Your filters natural properties will attract oils and scum that go through standard filters, so you can decrease or stop the use of defoamers or other anti-foaming agents.
*The filter will be full and should be changed when the color darkens to the core or the filter core is full of oils and contaminants and looks very saturated and clogged.
*Do not take the filter out and rinse off. Place the filter in the spa and do not check until at least 2-3 months later. If water goes cloudy, adjust chemicals and boost filtration to maximum for 24 hrs.
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Just to further add. Several hottub companies have also started adding microban product to their shell construction. Here is a little note that I took from Microbans web site.
There’s no better place to seek relaxation and relief from stress than a spa. However, the high temperatures and wet environment can make an unprotected spa surface a target for the growth of bacteria. Look for a spa or hot tub with a non-porous Lucite® surface and one that offers the added protection of Microban® antimicrobial product protection. Microban protection inhibits the growth of bacteria that can cause stains and odors on the surface of the spa. The continuous antimicrobial cleaning action makes your spa surface easier to clean and keeps it cleaner between cleanings. Microban protection is not a substitute for normal water treatment chemicals.
This sounds like it also contributes to the stain and scale issue.
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How much does a disposable filter cost? I was quoted $38 for one from my dealer.
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I get 3 filters at a time for 90.00. or they are 34.95 here. So that seems like an accurate price range to me.
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Do you get foam in your tub?
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I had foam once in almost 3 years. I had 5 friends in the tub with soap, lotions etc on. The tub took care of itself though and was better by the morning. But the foam was not out of control like some of the pictures that you see.
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I had foam once in almost 3 years. I had 5 friends in the tub with soap, lotions etc on. The tub took care of itself though and was better by the morning. But the foam was not out of control like some of the pictures that you see.
wow.
How often do you have friends with suits on in the tub?
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Help the illegal aliens out and buy American. ;D
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I always have washed clean suits no soap on standby for all company. All sizes, we got them on sale at old navy at the end of the season last year. This way no worries.
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Thanks Bosco, all the info. was great and the tub is being delivered on Thursday ;D so lots of tubbing on the long weekend. Wooo Hooo 8-)
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Steelerpete, did you get the tub?? where are your pictures
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Sorry for the delay, we've been tubbing for about an hour every night so didn't get a chance to reply yet. The tub is fantastic. The pic's are coming just a couple of little details to finish. Thanks again for all the info everyone contributed to the buying process. :)