Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Richs100 on June 02, 2007, 06:31:07 pm

Title: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Richs100 on June 02, 2007, 06:31:07 pm
I was just looking somthing up in my owner's manual and ran across instructions for removing the cover.  The manual states that the first thing you should do is to slip your hand underneath it "to break the suction".  Now that I think about it, I remember the cover on my old tub always had a bit of suction when I went to open it.  My new cover has never had a suction seal.  In fact, I have learned to shift it a particular way when closing it to get it to lay flat.  

I am wondering if my dealer incorrectly installed the coverlift which is now preventing the cover from sealing to the top of the tub??? (The old tub did not have a cover lift)  [b]If it is incorrectly installed, can I adjust it?[/b]  It is a CoverMate II (one shock).

Loss of heat from the cover also concerns me a lot more in that as of this month, BG&E is doubling our Kilowatt cost from 11.3 to 23 cents/kw

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Chad on June 03, 2007, 04:42:57 am
Quote
I was just looking somthing up in my owner's manual and ran across instructions for removing the cover.  The manual states that the first thing you should do is to slip your hand underneath it "to break the suction".  Now that I think about it, I remember the cover on my old tub always had a bit of suction when I went to open it.  My new cover has never had a suction seal.  In fact, I have learned to shift it a particular way when closing it to get it to lay flat.  

I am wondering if my dealer incorrectly installed the coverlift which is now preventing the cover from sealing to the top of the tub??? (The old tub did not have a cover lift)  [b]If it is incorrectly installed, can I adjust it?[/b]  It is a CoverMate II (one shock).

Loss of heat from the cover also concerns me a lot more in that as of this month, BG&E is doubling our Kilowatt cost from 11.3 to 23 cents/kw

Any thoughts?
I have the lift with a shock on each side and there is a slight suction when I open it up. I forgot what Covermate it is. :-/
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Tman122 on June 03, 2007, 09:17:15 am
Quote
I was just looking somthing up in my owner's manual and ran across instructions for removing the cover.  The manual states that the first thing you should do is to slip your hand underneath it "to break the suction".  Now that I think about it, I remember the cover on my old tub always had a bit of suction when I went to open it.  My new cover has never had a suction seal.  In fact, I have learned to shift it a particular way when closing it to get it to lay flat.  

I am wondering if my dealer incorrectly installed the coverlift which is now preventing the cover from sealing to the top of the tub??? (The old tub did not have a cover lift)  [b]If it is incorrectly installed, can I adjust it?[/b]  It is a CoverMate II (one shock).

Loss of heat from the cover also concerns me a lot more in that as of this month, BG&E is doubling our Kilowatt cost from 11.3 to 23 cents/kw

Any thoughts?

Rich, Suction on your cover is your friend. Creates a good seal between your warm water and the outside ambient. Even if it's 90 degrees out, there will be heat loss from your water. But in regular mode your circ pump will probably make up for it without the heater, but in summer mode it may kick on more.
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Brookenstein on June 03, 2007, 10:58:31 am
Rich,

I don't have any suction on my Envoy cover either.  Can't honestly remember if if I ever did.  I *think* I did until I did the tennis ball trick one time to keep it from getting too hot, but even still it wasn't much.
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Richs100 on June 03, 2007, 11:16:18 am
Quote
Rich,

I don't have any suction on my Envoy cover either.  Can't honestly remember if if I ever did.  I *think* I did until I did the tennis ball trick one time to keep it from getting too hot, but even still it wasn't much.

Hey Brooke, when your cover is closed, can you feel a little gap between it and the tub at the end where the cover lift is attached?  When the cover is closed, I can push down on the lid and feel a gap.  I think it might be because the dealer did not make sure the lid was laying flat when he attached the lift.  Since it is screwed into the tub, I am reluctant to try to adjust the screws.  I have looked for another way to adjust it, but don't see how I can.  

Anyone got any ideas?
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: hottubdan on June 03, 2007, 11:23:24 am
You may have the wrong shock.  You might need on with less psi.  Check with the dealer and Leisure Concepts.

 ;)
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on June 03, 2007, 11:31:16 am
Quote
It is a CoverMate II (one shock).



Any possibility of a picture? The Covermate 2 doesn't have any shocks (the Covermat 3 and Freestyle have two), and the only cover lift I know with only one shock is the Cover Caddy
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Richs100 on June 03, 2007, 12:19:47 pm
I was wrong.  It is the Covercradle II from Watkins.  One Shock.  Pics below:

(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/richs10/kw007.jpg)

(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/richs10/kw006.jpg)
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Pathfinder on June 03, 2007, 11:22:12 pm
I am I wrong  or is the cover remover screwed into the cover & foam????
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on June 04, 2007, 12:25:24 am
Quote
I am I wrong  or is the cover remover screwed into the cover & foam????

Yup. And if you saw the inside of the cover, and how it was actually done, you'd be even more surprised.. But it seems to work, and work well.
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Gomboman on June 04, 2007, 12:48:08 am
I also have an Envoy with a Covercradle--two shock version. Anyway, I've never noticed any suction either. Water collects on the top of my cover in puddles so I'm sure it's not perfectly flat. Never thought about adjusting the lifter.
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Richs100 on June 04, 2007, 11:09:02 am
Yeah, now that I remember the suction I had on my old tub, this is kinda bothering me.  Heat must be escaping if it is not forming a seal between the cover and the top of the tub.

Does anyone know if this kind of cover lift can be adjusted short of messing with the screw holes in the cabinet?  It is a large, heavy cover (which will get heavier over the next 2 or 3 years) and I do not want to weaken the integrity of the attachment of the lift to the sides of the tub.
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: drewstar on June 04, 2007, 11:26:19 am
Quote
I am I wrong  or is the cover remover screwed into the cover & foam????


There is a metal (aluminum? ) bar that rubs along the edge of cover, under the vinyl.  ;)
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on June 04, 2007, 01:48:18 pm
Quote


There is a metal (aluminum? ) bar that rubs along the edge of cover, under the vinyl.  ;)


Galvanized L-channel. There's a cut made in the edge of the foam that it's slid into. It's then held in place by double sided tape, and about 1/2 roll of duck tape. Then the whole thing is encassed in poly wrap. The screws go through the vinyl, through the poly wrap, into the L-channel, and out the back into the foam. Installed correctly, everything is sandwiched together and the cover wont leak.
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Gomboman on June 04, 2007, 09:46:59 pm
It seems like none of the Envoy folks have suction on the cover. I know my cover is not flat. Perhaps this is the problem. Is this someting we should bother the dealer with or is this a non issue?
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Richs100 on June 04, 2007, 10:41:21 pm
Quote
It seems like none of the Envoy folks have suction on the cover. I know my cover is not flat. Perhaps this is the problem. Is this someting we should bother the dealer with or is this a non issue?

Hey Hot Spring dealers...  do you guys have any input on this.  I had suction on my prodigy, but not my envoy.  Are we losing heat because of it?  
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Richs100 on June 06, 2007, 07:56:27 am
Bump

Hey Term, Hottubdan, Chas, other HS dealers....

Gombo, Brookenstein and I are lookin to you for some input.
We got no suction!  ;)
Are we losing heat here?
Are our coverlifts interfering with getting a suction seal?
Waddayathink?

Dr. Spa:  Do you think we are losing much energy with this situation?
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Gary on June 07, 2007, 10:26:49 am
I would check the lip of spas and see if they are level, if a corner has dropped that would not allow the cover to sit flat and make a good seal. All you need is a 4" level and lay it on the lip of the spa and look for any gaps.
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: hottubdan on June 07, 2007, 10:42:55 am
Quote
Bump

Hey Term, Hottubdan, Chas, other HS dealers....

Gombo, Brookenstein and I are lookin to you for some input.
We got no suction!  ;)
Are we losing heat here?
Are our coverlifts interfering with getting a suction seal?
Waddayathink?

Dr. Spa:  Do you think we are losing much energy with this situation?

Not sure why you got no suction.  If you are losing heat it would be minimal.  On cold nights can you see steam?


Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: stuart on June 07, 2007, 11:42:12 am
Suction comes from 4 things on the spa....

1. The larger radius on the corner adds to the suction on most covers
2. The conformity of the top lip, if your lip is uneven your cover will not set firm
3. The flatness of the cover
4. the seal of the pillows in the seam for not leaving holes.

The cover flap plays a big part in this also.

Some spas on the market use a rounded lip that seems to create a better seal while others use a flat bar top. If you look down the top surface of the spa lip you will be able to see if you have dips or waves in it.
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: hottubdan on June 07, 2007, 11:48:06 am
Update...

I have cover suction on my Jetsetter.

It is not extreme.  I wonder if you are simply looking for too much suction.

Dan ;)
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Richs100 on June 07, 2007, 03:20:49 pm
Quote
Update...

I have cover suction on my Jetsetter.

It is not extreme.  I wonder if you are simply looking for too much suction.

Dan ;)

Dan:  
I'm not looking for a lot of suction, but there is absolutely none on my tub.

Do you have a coverlift on the Prodigy?
Maybe the Envoy cover is too large to seal like a smaller cover?
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: hottubdan on June 07, 2007, 09:11:07 pm
Quote

Dan:  
I'm not looking for a lot of suction, but there is absolutely none on my tub.

Do you have a coverlift on the Prodigy?
Maybe the Envoy cover is too large to seal like a smaller cover?

I have a CM1.

Here in the showroom I have suckage on my Caspian, Vanguard and Sovereign.  Vanguard has Cover Cradle 2.  

I think you should get that little bit of suction.

Dan
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: thearm on June 08, 2007, 12:05:06 pm
[I think you should get that little bit of suction.

Dan[/quote]

I think everybody here would agree that everyone deserves a (little bit of suction) ;D
However I think it is normal and not a defect if your not getting it with your tub. Sometimes I have it with mine and other times I don't. I don't have a lifter and it seems to depend how I position the cover when I put it back on.
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Brewman on June 08, 2007, 12:15:17 pm
Try calling your dealer and informing them that your spa cover has lost suction.

Then see what their reaction is.  And then let us know.

Who knows, maybe you'll get a new cover for your efforts.

Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Gomboman on June 09, 2007, 12:12:20 am
I'll call my dealer to see if he can give me a little suction.
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Mez on June 09, 2007, 09:23:23 pm
I went and pulled the cover up onmy new J-345 (unfilled) today, it has a CMIII on it and I have suction, to the point it makes a woooosh sound when I open it.
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: anne on June 09, 2007, 10:31:17 pm
I'm wondering if some people missing out of suction might be lifting up their covers differently. For example, if I start at the corner of my tub, and lift very slowly, there is less perceived "whoosh." If I hold it by the handle, and pull up fast, there is definitely more "suction" but I think it is just the way I'm displacing air and creating a momentary vaccuum under the cover. Granted, a warped or holey cover will have less vaccuum than a good one, but could some of it in this case be user-created?  
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Richs100 on June 09, 2007, 11:03:14 pm
Well, I guess some of us got it, and some of us don't.
Im sure I will get suction as the cover gets older and heavier, but I really don't want to wish for that!  :)

Anne, I'm gonna checkout your idea.  Most of the time I start lifting the cover from the corner since I have to pull it back from that angle to lift it with the lift. I'm gonna start doing it from the center just to double check the suction issue.  Thanks
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Chad on June 10, 2007, 12:54:04 pm
Quote
I went and pulled the cover up onmy new J-345 (unfilled) today, it has a CMIII on it and I have suction, to the point it makes a woooosh sound when I open it.
So what's the word Mez. Is it filled yet?
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Mez on June 10, 2007, 09:01:05 pm
Quote
So what's the word Mez. Is it filled yet?
Hey Chad, thanks for asking, BUT NO...it is still sitting there empty :(
My electrician called and came over yesterday, did some figuring, told me he had to go out and get the parts, I'm like cool and then he said he would be back sometime in the upcoming week, not sure of the day! I was like, not cool..but, hell, we've waited this long, we can wait another few days. I hate to admit, but I did climb in it yesterday and sit in each seat while I was cleaning it up a little :)
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Chad on June 10, 2007, 10:21:31 pm
Just in time for Father's Day. :)
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Mez on June 11, 2007, 10:16:19 pm
Quote
Just in time for Father's Day. :)
I like the way you think but it was actually a gift I got my wife for Mothers Day...tomorrow, Fathers day will come a little early after her first soak as the electrician will come hook it all up while we are at work. It should be good to go by dusk tomorrow :)
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: NorthWoodsDipper on June 12, 2007, 02:02:26 pm
I have an Arctic Summit, and while I love my spa, I have an issue with my cover.  It has NO suction believe me!  It has about a 3/8" gap along one edge.  I have had this problem for awhile but didn't have time to call it in.  The service tech came out while I was away.  He flipped my inserts around, and said the problem was fixed, but there was the same 3/8" gap.  I live in MN, so my elect bill was NASTY this winter given the gap in the cover.  I am talking a HUGE increase!  :-(

I finally got around to calling the service manager and he is going to call it into Arctic as a warrenty issue.  But I am still waiting to hear what the answer is.  That was a couple of weeks ago.  Perhaps since the flipped the cover insterts over and it still has a gap, the fiberglass top edge is not flat?  Just a thought.

Steven
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: drewstar on June 13, 2007, 10:21:28 am
Quote
I have an Arctic Summit, and while I love my spa, I have an issue with my cover.  It has NO suction believe me!  It has about a 3/8" gap along one edge.  I have had this problem for awhile but didn't have time to call it in.  The service tech came out while I was away.  He flipped my inserts around, and said the problem was fixed, but there was the same 3/8" gap.  I live in MN, so my elect bill was NASTY this winter given the gap in the cover.  I am talking a HUGE increase!  :-(

I finally got around to calling the service manager and he is going to call it into Arctic as a warrenty issue.  But I am still waiting to hear what the answer is.  That was a couple of weeks ago.  Perhaps since the flipped the cover insterts over and it still has a gap, the fiberglass top edge is not flat?  Just a thought.

Steven

Interesting.   I always thoght the cover was covered under a seperate warranty, and most were only good for a year.  I am curious how Artic will (or wont) handle this...

Is it possible you had the straps too tight? Could this cause buckling or have the foam warp?

Please keep us updated on this.  Covers are CRITICAL to cold weather insualtion.  
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Tom on June 13, 2007, 10:39:58 am
Quote

Interesting.   I always thoght the cover was covered under a seperate warranty, and most were only good for a year.  I am curious how Artic will (or wont) handle this...
 

Artic? Who they?   Artic may not handle it but  I'll do my best to be sure Arctic will.    (Just teasin' ya, Drew)

The CastCore Cover has a three year warranty, including parts and labour necessary to repair (normal wear and tear excluded).
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: drewstar on June 13, 2007, 10:55:31 am
It's my yankee accent.    (R-tic hot tubs)



(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/GodlikeMoron/barbossa1.jpg)
I prefer Arrrrrrrrrrrrrr-tic hot tubs.
 


If the foam is mishappen for what ever reason (or water logged) or just not being a good cover. ArCtic will replace it?





Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Steve on June 13, 2007, 11:13:27 am
Often flipping the foam inserts can eliminate a gap but if that didn't solve it, it could be the top rail of the spa. That wouldn't be good... Have you tried rotating the cover 180 degrees to see if the gap is still on the same side or if it moves to the other side with the cover?

I would get them to bring out a new cover to see if that solves the problem first and then take from there.

In my experience, all covers should have a slight suction to them when lifting off the first side.

Steve
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: rick on June 13, 2007, 12:41:03 pm
I get a workout lifting my cover it sucks so hard!

Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: NorthWoodsDipper on June 13, 2007, 06:25:51 pm
I am not joking here... my elect bill was $120.00 higher each month for Dec through Feb than last year.

I am sure Arctic will take care of it.  It is just taking a bit longer than I wish it would.  Part of it is my issue, since I waited to call it in until about 6 weeks ago.  Wish I called it in right away, I could have used the money savings from the elect bill!  But I have been so dang busy...

BTW, this is not a strap issue, they are not tight.  

Steven-
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: tony on June 13, 2007, 06:40:16 pm
Quote
Often flipping the foam inserts can eliminate a gap.

Steve

I've often thought about flipping the foam inserts in my cover for maintenance, but always chickened out.  I was afraid I couldn't get them back in.
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Steve on June 13, 2007, 06:54:20 pm
Quote

I've often thought about flipping the foam inserts in my cover for maintenance, but always chickened out.  I was afraid I couldn't get them back in.

It sometimes can be a lot of "fun"! ;) I've done LOTS of them over the years and if you take your time and slowly go back and forth on each side, it's not too bad really.

Steve
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Gomboman on June 13, 2007, 10:59:53 pm
OK, I was joking around with this thread earlier. Seriously, I've never noticed any suction with my cover. I have a dealer installed Covercradle lifter. I noticed that I have a lot of standing water that collects on the top of my cover. I don't think it is perfectly flat. Should I have someone take a look at the cover?
Title: Re: Hot Tub Cover Suction - should I have it?
Post by: Richs100 on June 16, 2007, 10:11:21 am
Quote
OK, I was joking around with this thread earlier. Seriously, I've never noticed any suction with my cover. I have a dealer installed Covercradle lifter. I noticed that I have a lot of standing water that collects on the top of my cover. I don't think it is perfectly flat. Should I have someone take a look at the cover?

Hey Gombo, if you do have someone look at your cover, let me know what they say, Ok?