New hot tub wiring

[watzup]

My son is getting a new coleman tub this week and we have been having trouble with some of the electrical rules.  I know most are general and some are local.  Question #1.  the coleman literature specifies 240 volt 4 wire.  Run is about 80 feet, electrician used 3 #6 awg wires and 1 #10 bare wire in a sheeth.  This was put inside a flex conduit and run to the tub area.  I think?? all 4 wires should be #6 if in fact 4 wires are required.  The electrician ran the cable/conduit down the wall on the patio, left about 15 foot of wire there, no disconnect box used.  Question #2, what exactly is the 5 foot minimum requirement for the disconnect.  Loose reading of the requirement from my son is, from any water source of the tub to the disconnect box.  He wants to place the tub 2 feet from the wall and have the box 5 feet at a diagonal up on the wall.  I don't think that is the intent of the electrical code.  My take is 5 feet horizontal minimum from the tub to the disconnect.  Any comments please, we have several beers riding on this.  p.s.  I believe the electrican is well trained in residential electrical requirements, but does not know the speciality of spa wiring.     TIA  

[Cola]

You did prety good here
The minimum varies by location but if you can touch the tub and the disconnect box at the same time, the box is too close to the tub.  Solid conduit down the wall is prettier than flex, leave a bit of room for expansion in the sun or it will warp.  The wiring is good but may be an issue depending on the current (amperage) draw for an 80 foot run.  Have the electrician check his code book for this one.  The smaller ground wire is not an issue at all.  I prefer to locate the GFI indoors with a cheap disconnect outdoors.  The GFI circuitry is not outdoor friendly.  You will have to be home for service in some cases if you do this.

Good luck
Steve

[Brewman]

 The only problem I see with that wire is the bare ground.  In my locale, it wouldn't be allowed.  NEC calls for all pool and spa wiring to be insulated.  THHN/THWN wire is the best to use.  
 Maybe in your area the type of wiring you describe would be allowed.  It wouldn't fly where I live- we have relatively picky electrical inspectors here.
 6 gauge copper is fine for this application, and it is allowable to downsize the neutral by one and the ground by two, so a #8 neutral might be allowed, and a #10 insulated ground might be allowed.  It's allowed in most cases by NEC, but local inspectors would have final say.
 The disconnect must be 5' away from the water (not the spa, but the water), as the crow flies.  It also must be within line of sight.  Can't be around a corner, or inside a dwelling, etc..  
 This shutoff can be a spa panel with a GFI breaker, or you can put the GFI inside the main panel and use something else as the outdoor disconnect.
  The 80 foot length isn't an issue, the #6 is probably okay- you'd need to be out quite a bit more than 80' before you'd need to upsize.  And going from #6 to #4 is a considerable jump in cost, and the wire is much more difficult to work with.
 Assuming you used a qualified electrician, that wire is probably ok.  Presumably he know what's allowed or he should.  Make sure it's inspected if you are concerned.

[watzup]

More clarification...there is a GFCI Breaker installed in the main panel and therefore all that is needed now is a disconnect to meet the 5 ft rule.  But let me see if I can explain what my son is trying to do.  His plan is to set the tub in a corner about 2 feet from each wall and take a measurement of the water when the tub is full (probably 36 inches) then measure up the wall from the nearest water point to meet the 5 foot rule.  If my math is right, that would be about 7 foot from the ground, does not seem like a good idea to me.  

[Spiderman]

More clarification...there is a GFCI Breaker installed in the main panel and therefore all that is needed now is a disconnect to meet the 5 ft rule.  But let me see if I can explain what my son is trying to do.  His plan is to set the tub in a corner about 2 feet from each wall and take a measurement of the water when the tub is full (probably 36 inches) then measure up the wall from the nearest water point to meet the 5 foot rule.  If my math is right, that would be about 7 foot from the ground, does not seem like a good idea to me.  

If the subpanel or disconnect is too high, I don't think it will be considered "accessible"

[gtp]

We're still in the process of looking and one place we went to said one of the guys that works for them does electrical but it's not associated with the company.  We would pay him direct.  Good thing is he would be involved with the installation of the tub as well, so everything could be done at once.  Possibly not good thing is don't think he goes gets permits, get inspection, etc.  The spa store is 2 counties away.  So what do the majority of folks usually do?  Go through a local electrical contractor or someone who can do it all in one trip?  If local, which is the best sequence of events- company deliver tub,  do wiring, get company back to "set up" tub, or do wiring, deliver tub, hook up tub, "set up" tub?  Kind of chicken and the egg question.

[Brewman]

 I did my own electric- but that's not someting I'd recommend to someone unless they have experience with and understand residential wiring.  Pool and spa wiring isn't a good first project.

 I'd hire a licensed electrician, and insist that the required permits and inspections are done. If this spa dealer recommended guy is licensed fine, but if he's not how qualified or competent is he?  
  The fact that he skips permits and inspections is a red flag to me.  No competent electrician would do that and risk their livelyhood.

As long as you know what the spas wiring requirements are and where the spa will sit, you can do the electrical first or do the spa install first or do them at the same time.



 

[macejh]

I doubt the 7 foot high disconnect panel is legal.  It needs to be 'accesible' for someone to shut off power in case of drowning or other problem.  I believe there is a height requirement for the panel, something like between 36 and 54 inches off the ground, but i dont know for sure.

[Cola]

Height is not an issue for disconnecting in most cases.  Common sense tells me not to install a disconnecting device above a body of water.  I do realise that common sense does vary from state to state so I can't offer any further input here.  But I will anyways.  As I have stated here before, my safety training includes the oportunity to see in graphic photos the results of bad judgement.  It does help me to be a lot more careful when working on live 600V electrical panels and I can offer you this sound advise.  Put the panel more than one foot of arms length horizontally from the closes edge of the tub.  Install the GFI inside so that the elements don't render it useless since you probably won't test it once a month.  Better safe than sorry.
Steve

[watzup]

 Put the panel more than one foot of arms length horizontally from the closes edge of the tub.  Install the GFI inside so that the elements don't render it useless since you probably won't test it once a month.  Better safe than sorry.
Steve

I agree, unless you are a very short person, that should exceed the 5 ft rule.  I will find out tomorrow since we are going to his house for dinner.  ( I am not going to make any comments until after desert!!)