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Author Topic: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!  (Read 4335 times)

Webini

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Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« on: December 29, 2006, 03:33:06 pm »
I'm taking the plunge (no pun intended) and doing a drain a refill today.  First time on my new Jetsetter.

My initial fill of water was provided by the dealer at install.  I've got my chemical routine down now (Vermonter method).

I drained the tub at noon using a submersible pump.  No issues there.  Removed filters and N2 cartridge.

I cleaned the entire tub using highly chlorinated water and a Magic Eraser.

Then I attached the HotSpring FreshStart pre-filter to my faucet, attached the hose, and put the other end in the pipe.  Let the filling begin.

Here's the thing.  I have well water.  VERY hard water with lots of iron.  I have a water softener that does a good job with the hardness, not so good with the iron.  Anyway, I cannot bypass the softener for reasons that take too long to explain.

The fill is almost done.  The water seems to have a very green tinge to it.  The funny thing is that if I put some in a glass it looks clear.  My guess is that I have lots of iron.  Not good.

The pH is low, calcium VERY low.  I can bring the pH up and hopefully bring the calcium up.  Obviously I'm going to give the tub a massive dichlor shock.

Any idea what can I do about the color / rust?  Stain & Scale Defense?  Will it clear with the shock?  Or am I scr*wed? :-[
« Last Edit: December 29, 2006, 03:38:10 pm by Webini »

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Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« on: December 29, 2006, 03:33:06 pm »

hot tub Frank

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2006, 03:58:20 pm »
Could you post a pic from you water?
what is the color of your shell?

My water look also a bit green do to the shell color and the use of bromine

Bonibelle

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2006, 04:01:51 pm »
No one has answered, I hope this is the right thing to do...
First DON'T shock yet...you need to remove the iron before you add any chlorine products.  I will take a guess that the green tint may be from the low Ph and...(if you have copper pipes).

Anyway, you have filled your tub and need to remove the residual iron that your softener missed by using a stain and scale before you do anything else. Chlorine will make the rust much worse, you need to first remove it. I usually add my stain and scale as the tub is filling and let it run for a couple of hours before adding any sanitizer.   after you have let the tub run...(I wait until it is up to temperature), add the other chemicals to adjust your ph etc. Then when they are pretty much right, add your sanitizer.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2006, 04:03:31 pm by Bonibelle »
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Reese

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2006, 04:07:06 pm »
Your dealer should have given you instructions that would have allowed you to duplicate what they did on the first fill. It sounds like you should use a metal remover.  Usually you put that in right away, let it filter for a day to remove as much metal as possible, then rinse the filters before continuing on with balancing the water.  If you don't get the metals out, your first shock will oxidize them, and you may see even more color (think rust).  Check your stain/scale product.  Some of those are for calcium, not metals.

I'm surprized that your dealer recommended all soft water, most of the time I have seen recs for partial soft because softened water can be corrosive on sensitive components.  Make sure your warranty won't be affected by the use of soft water.

Sometimes color tints in the water can be reflections from the surrounding area.  One respected member here had us going 'round when he was a newbie, trying to help him clear up a green tint that turned out to be a reflection from a nearby tree. :-[
« Last Edit: December 29, 2006, 04:11:36 pm by Reese »

In Canada eh

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2006, 04:09:21 pm »
Quote

The fill is almost done.  The water seems to have a very green tinge to it.  The funny thing is that if I put some in a glass it looks clear.  My guess is that I have lots of iron.  Not good.

Any idea what can I do about the color / rust?  Stain & Scale Defense?  Will it clear with the shock?  Or am I scr*wed? :-[


Webini

    Iron content in the water will make it red, copper will make it green. Boni is right, you should use a stain and scale reducer before shocking.  Also if your tub has a white shell it could just be an underlying tone in the white colour.  Think about the last time you painted your ceiling and how many different shades of white there were :o
« Last Edit: December 29, 2006, 04:10:24 pm by Confused_in_Canada »
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Webini

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2006, 04:21:13 pm »
Quote
Could you post a pic from you water?
what is the color of your shell?

My water look also a bit green do to the shell color and the use of bromine

It's dark out now and I'd have to use a flash so I'll have to wait until morning.  I think the flash would distort the color.

Webini

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2006, 04:23:58 pm »
Quote
Your dealer should have given you instructions that would have allowed you to duplicate what they did on the first fill. It sounds like you should use a metal remover.  Usually you put that in right away, let it filter for a day to remove as much metal as possible, then rinse the filters before continuing on with balancing the water.  If you don't get the metals out, your first shock will oxidize them, and you may see even more color (think rust).  Check your stain/scale product.  Some of those are for calcium, not metals.

I'm surprized that your dealer recommended all soft water, most of the time I have seen recs for partial soft because softened water can be corrosive on sensitive components.  Make sure your warranty won't be affected by the use of soft water.

Sometimes color tints in the water can be reflections from the surrounding area.  One respected member here had us going 'round when he was a newbie, trying to help him clear up a green tint that turned out to be a reflection from a nearby tree. :-[

I am duplicating what they did on the first fill.  The difference is that they brought the water in a tank and did not use my well water.

My house is a light blue and the shell is "sand" so I've seen a bit of a green tint before.  Nothing like this though.

Dealer said the soft water was OK as long as I immediately got the calcium level up.  I've accomplished that and gotten the pH up.  Stain & Scale is next I guess.

Webini

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2006, 04:25:08 pm »
Quote
No one has answered, I hope this is the right thing to do...
First DON'T shock yet...you need to remove the iron before you add any chlorine products.  I will take a guess that the green tint may be from the low Ph and...(if you have copper pipes).

Anyway, you have filled your tub and need to remove the residual iron that your softener missed by using a stain and scale before you do anything else. Chlorine will make the rust much worse, you need to first remove it. I usually add my stain and scale as the tub is filling and let it run for a couple of hours before adding any sanitizer.   after you have let the tub run...(I wait until it is up to temperature), add the other chemicals to adjust your ph etc. Then when they are pretty much right, add your sanitizer.

OK, no shock yet.  I do have copper pipes.  I'll let the Stain & Scale run overnight.

Bonibelle

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2006, 05:15:11 pm »
pshew!  Glad you read before you dumped in your sanitizer...you would have really been unhappy tomorrow!

I have well water but I turn off my water softener.  I tend to get iron too, sometimes a lot of iron!  My one set of filters are so stained that I have decided to keep them to just use on refills..that way both sets of filters aren't so rusty looking.

Just curious if you have thought of a neutralizing system for your water?  The low ph will eventually do a numer on your copper pipes...pitting them and causing leaks... :-/ Just something to think about...
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Webini

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2006, 05:18:25 pm »
Quote
pshew!  Glad you read before you dumped in your sanitizer...you would have really been unhappy tomorrow!

I have well water but I turn off my water softener.  I tend to get iron too, sometimes a lot of iron!  My one set of filters are so stained that I have decided to keep them to just use on refills..that way both sets of filters aren't so rusty looking.

Just curious if you have thought of a neutralizing system for your water?  The low ph will eventually do a numer on your copper pipes...pitting them and causing leaks... :-/ Just something to think about...

I've had the pH tested for the house and it is low, but not a problem for the pipes.  It was fairly easy to bring the pH up in the tub.  The calcium level was a bit more difficult but it is OK now.

I'm letting the jets run for 2 hours and then will let the tub heat up and see what I have in the morning.  If I can't get the water to settle down I'm going to have to get deliveries from somewhere.  It will not be cheap...

Bonibelle

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2006, 05:20:30 pm »
I'm sure you can get your water straightened out...it just may take a few days...good luck  ;)
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neocacher

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2006, 05:22:17 pm »
This is a very interesting discussion, especially for us new people.  It sounds like you are getting some good advice.  It will be interesting to see if you have the problem solved by tomorrow. I hope you do!  Good Luck.

Neo

Webini

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2006, 05:24:49 pm »
Quote
This is a very interesting discussion, especially for us new people.  It sounds like you are getting some good advice.  It will be interesting to see if you have the problem solved by tomorrow. I hope you do!  Good Luck.

Neo

People always give great advice here.  I'll post in the morning with a picture.  Hopefully I can get this solved and the info will help someone else.

tony

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2006, 05:50:58 pm »
With well water high in iron, I would use a metal sequester such as Leisure Time Metal Gon.  A stain and scale product protect more against calcium problems.  Though some stain and scales help with metals, a product just to suspend or sequester metals is safer, IMO.  I use Leisure Time Products because it is what my dealer sells.  I have high iron and manganese.  Metal Gon is only used at a new fill.  Leisure Time stain and scale is Defender used weekly or biweekly.  It does not sequester metals.

Webini

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2006, 06:45:20 pm »
Quote
With well water high in iron, I would use a metal sequester such as Leisure Time Metal Gon.  A stain and scale product protect more against calcium problems.  Though some stain and scales help with metals, a product just to suspend or sequester metals is safer, IMO.  I use Leisure Time Products because it is what my dealer sells.  I have high iron and manganese.  Metal Gon is only used at a new fill.  Leisure Time stain and scale is Defender used weekly or biweekly.  It does not sequester metals.

Unfortunately I won't be able to get to my dealer until Sunday.  Will any metal removal product work?  How much damage will I be doing if I don't get this corrected until then?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2006, 06:55:41 pm by Webini »

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Re: Refill Issues - Arrrggghh!
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2006, 06:45:20 pm »

 

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