Refilled Tub question

[MostlyLurkingGal]

Today I drained and refilled my Jetsetter. I have added NOTHING to it yet, and would like to get this correct from the beginnng.
Soooooooooooo what is the correct thing to do first, please?

[Vinny]

Wait until it warms up and take a reading of the water's chemistry. I would adjust PH if needed (I don't tend to worry about alkalinity), then calicium if you believe in using it and finally put in some chlorine or bromine reserve.

As far as alkalinity, I use baking soda to adjust both PH and alkalinity and in the past I have found that raising the PH to a high correct reading brings my alkalinity in range also. I guess if you have high alkalinity and low PH or visa versa then getting the high reading low then adjusting both is the answer, but I'm not sure on this.

This has been my routine.

[MostlyLurkingGal]

Thanks Vinny! I will wait until tomorrow, then throw in some baking soda after checking if both are low. Then some dichlor.
I have never checked for calicium...ut oh!

[Vinny]

The subject of calcium is a debateable subject. According to Langilier Index, calcium is part of the equation of balanced water. Taylor has calcium as one of their parameters on their Watergram but I believe they use the Langilier to balance the water.

People who believe in calcium say that it's possible that the soft water will errode the metals in the tub/pool as it tries to get calcium from somewhere. Those who don't say that metal can't be bothered by the soft water and it's just a waste of money to put calcium in the water.

I do use calcium and figure it's cheap enough insurance to make sure that if the water can harm the metal (heater) then it's worth the addition to the water.

[hottubdan]

Soft water also causes foaming. :-?

[windsurfdog]

MLG,

Forgive if this post gets to you late...

Though Vinny and HTD give EXCELLENT advice, here is something else to consider:

If your water source is a municipal water supply like mine, then I would bet that it is pretty well balanced...at least in the ball park.  If so, you could do what I do...add 3 tsp. of dichlor while the water is heating and jump in as soon as it is up to temp.  There is not a better soak than the first few soaks with minimal chems present.  I normally don't add anything other than dichlor for the first week or two just to enjoy that fresh water with no other chems.  And unless your water out of the tap is WAY out of balance, a week or two without balancing shouldn't hurt a thing.  BTW, this is positive reinforcement for changing the water...really gives you something to look forward to...8-)

[Reese]

... what is the correct thing to do first, please?

It really depends on the composition of your source water, so test first, unless you already know the make-up.  If it is fairly balanced and no metals, a little sanitizer and you are good to go.  If you have metals, get those out with a metal remover before adding any sanitizer/shock.  If you have high pH, TA or Hardness, adding a stain/scale preventer early in the process can minimize problems that could occur before you get the water balanced.  If you have low pH, some baking soda right away it a good idea.  The list goes on... so perhaps you could post your test results to allow us to give you better advice.

One thing to be aware of is the tendency of some water to test near perfect out of the tap, but show its true make-up after sitting a day or two.  

p.s.  I seldom disagree with WSD, but I wouldn't wait two weeks to balance water, unless it is already close.  If you do that 3-4 times/yr, that could add up to a couple of months of unbalanced water which could be enough time to do some damage if pH is low, or potential for scaling is high.

[windsurfdog]

p.s.  I seldom disagree with WSD, but I wouldn't wait two weeks to balance water, unless it is already close.  If you do that 3-4 times/yr, that could add up to a couple of months of unbalanced water which could be enough time to do some damage if pH is low, or potential for scaling is high.

Reese,
The key ingredient to my suggestion was "And unless your water out of the tap is WAY out of balance, a week or two without balancing shouldn't hurt a thing."  Maybe I should focus on that statement for moment.  I'll use my own experience as an example.

Water out of the tap for me measures around 7.4 pH, 100 TA, 230 Ca...pretty doggone good.  After agitation and aeration, pH goes up to around 8.  To me, this is very acceptable for a short one to two week period ("a week or two" as I stated previously).  I'll then add just enough dry acid to bring the pH down to 7.6 or so and let the dichlor and MPS bring it on down from there.  Normally I have to start adjusting the pH back up during the 3rd month (I'm on a 4 month change cycle) but I don't normally do so until the pH falls close to 7.1-7.2.  My feeling is that any calcium buildup that may occur when the pH is in the 7.8 to 8.0 range during the early stages of the fill cycle would be reversed by the slightly lowered pH during the end of the second month to the middle of the third month.  Though I have never pulled out my heater element to look for calcification, I do feel that signs can be noticed in spinner jet performance and on the jet nozzles and jet trim rings , especially the stainless rings like those on my tub.  At times I do see the slightest calcium buildup but it dissipates as pH drops.  I guess I feel that under these circumstances, less adjustment will do no harm and may help keep the "chemical soup" at bay.

If my water measured "out of the ballpark", then I agee 100% with your assessment.  "Out of the ballpark" for me would be anything 8.1 pH or above or 7.0 pH or below.  TA and CA don't concern me in this exercise as much as pH.  Obviously, metals content should be dealt with immediately or preferably be filtered out during the fill if a hose attached filter is capable...I don't know 'cause I have no probs with minerals/metals.

What do you think?  Am I off base with this recommendation?

[Reese]

The key ingredient to my suggestion was "And unless your water out of the tap is WAY out of balance...Water out of the tap for me measures around 7.4 pH, 100 TA, 230 Ca...pretty doggone good.  After agitation and aeration, pH goes up to around 8.... "Out of the ballpark" for me would be anything 8.1 pH or above or 7.0 pH or below.  TA and CA don't concern me in this exercise as much as pH...What do you think?  Am I off base with this recommendation?

I certainly wouldn't characterize it as "off base", because it works for you.  It just isn't something I'd be comfortable with, nor would I recommend it to someone else -- especially not knowing their water chemistry.
  
Theoretically, at your pH 8/TA 100/ Ca 230, which doesn't seem that bad, there is still potential for precipitation.  According to my Taylor wheel, with those readings and 102 degree water, anything above 50 hardness has the potential to fall out of solution.  Since the heater is the hottest component in the system, it will attract the calcium first, and there is potentially 200 ppm looking for a home.  Although it could just make your heater work a little harder, realistically you aren't likely to know if it is a problem until something plugs, or the heater fails.  I don't know if the time you run at a slightly low pH is enough to bring that back into solution or not.  I just would rather not take the chance.  

As far as what constitutes "out of ballpark"... since pH/TA/Hardness and Temp all work together to determine saturation, I don't think focusing on pH alone is a good idea.  For example: what if pH and TA are within range, but hardness is off-scale?  I'd still be concerned about precipitation.

The high pH/TA/Hardness water in this area has probably made me more sensitive to the importance of proper balance than folks with "better" water.  (While difficult to manage in a hot tub, our limestone aquifer water tastes great right out of the tap, lots of minerals... so "better" depends on what you are using it for.  I have seen the effects of scale and don't want it in my tub.  That said, I'm all for keeping things simple -- and lots of folks report success without worrying about water balance, so perhaps this is just a theoretical discussion.  Definitely, "whatever works" is the way to go.

[D.P. Roberts]

Before putting any of the chemicals mentioned above, I'd put water in it.

[Reese]

Before putting any of the chemicals mentioned above, I'd put water in it.

[MostlyLurkingGal]

So I soaked this morning with virgin water, then put in 1 tsp of dichlor. My water is now reading Ph = 7.2 and Alk = 30. What would you do/add now?

[Gomboman]

So I soaked this morning with virgin water, then put in 1 tsp of dichlor. My water is now reading Ph = 7.2 and Alk = 30. What would you do/add now?

MLG, wow, Alk at 30 is very low. What are you using to measure your alkalinity?

[MostlyLurkingGal]

Taylor test kit. I just put in one TBS of baking soda....just did only one because I'm not sure what to do.....

[Reese]

Taylor test kit. I just put in one TBS of baking soda....just did only one because I'm not sure what to do.....

Your baking soda dose was just fine.  It should raise both pH and TA.  Wait until tomorrow and see what it tests then.  You should also test your hardness to determine what level of pH/TA to shoot for, and if any additional calcium is recommended.  The book that came with your Taylor kit has a lot of good info, along with charts to help determine how much chems to add.