HotSpring versus McDonald's

[hottubdan]

I'm totally with Vinny on this one. Hot tubs are most certainly a luxury. Far from everyone can afford one. I feel pretty darned lucky.

OK.  If hot tubs are a luxury so is everything beyond the basics, that millions of Amricans pay for every day.  RVs, Jet Skis, HD TVs (seen the display at Costco?), vacations, the types of cars and trucks we drive, etc.  

So, if hot tubs are a luxury, then, with some rethinnking, they are an affordable luxury.

[drewstar]

OK.  If hot tubs are a luxury so is everything beyond the basics, that millions of Amricans pay for every day.  RVs, Jet Skis, HD TVs (seen the display at Costco?), vacations, the types of cars and trucks we drive, etc.  

So, if hot tubs are a luxury, then, with some rethinnking, they are an affordable luxury.

I have this discussion many times with my friends. Some who love my hot tub and want one, others that love USING my hot tub, but would never buy one, and others that couldn't give a rat's behind for one at all.  In my sphere of friends, while we are all working folks, $$ is secondary to 1) would I really enjoy it, 2) do I have a place for it  3) of my spendable money for luxary toys, do I want to invest my money into this?  (Think, we can have ANYTHING we want, but we cant have EVERYTHING we want).

[Vinny]

OK.  If hot tubs are a luxury so is everything beyond the basics, that millions of Amricans pay for every day.  RVs, Jet Skis, HD TVs (seen the display at Costco?), vacations, the types of cars and trucks we drive, etc.  

So, if hot tubs are a luxury, then, with some rethinnking, they are an affordable luxury.

Since you sell spas, you think this way.

I've said it before, there are automobiles and then there are luxury automobiles. My Sonata has almost everything a higher end car has. I paid $17,000 for it not $60,000 for it, talk to a high end dealer - you can't live without one of their cars.  It also came with a longer warranty than most cars. If it lasts 8 years (and I'm sure it will) and I buy another Sonata for $25,000 (then price) I paid a total of $42,000 and in 16 years I have an 8 YO car.

By calling something "affordable" - who is doing the calculation. To someone making $35,000 a tub is NOT affordable if their bills are too high. A $200K house with 20% down has a PITI  payment of approx $1600 a month ... how affordable is an $8K spa - not at all. I will state that most people making $35K will not be in a $200K house. If you're here in Jersey - you're not buying a house unless it's in a really depressed area. No House ... No tub.

This is the BS that has gotten people into hot water financially. I once went to a mortgage broker who told me at my salary I could afford another $150,000 in a house and that bankers are too conservative ... that's why houses are being foreclosed. Dirtbag sales people doing what they're paid to do - sell. If you can't afford it, no problem we have payments. Hey dirtbag got his commission and the poor family now has to figure out how they can afford their luxury item. I am not picking on hot tubs ... all aspects of luxury are culprits.

Yeah, I do go to a Circuit City and see the 46" LCD 1080p television that I want ... I have a 27" regular TV that's just fine for now. Let someone else take the payments on it ... $2000 for a TV. I will get it one day but for now, I'll admire it in Circuit City.

[hottubdan]

Vinny,

Believe it or not, you make my case.  You chose to buy a Sonata, and you have a hot tub.

Even if there are 500,000 foreclosures there are millions of homeowners staying current with their mortgages.

The toys continue to be bought.

The household with a $35000 annual income is not going to be in the spa market.  But, they might live in an apartment and have a $2000 TV.

[Vinny]

I was only able to afford my tub and the deck project through an inheritance.

My wife and I make good money and I couldn't afford the tub, even at $6500, let alone averything else associated with it. There are times we live paycheck to paycheck sometimes even dipping into savings ... my only debt at this point - my house.

If it wasn't for my parents and them leaving money for their children I would not own a spa. I would not be able to buy a spa at all at our current salary level. To me a spa is not an affordable luxury - being willed money and having a luxury from that is different IMO than being able to go out and buy a spa because you have extra money available from your paycheck

[drewstar]

always live below your means.  Have emergency cash on hand.  Just because the banker says you can afford it, doesn't mean you really can.

I love the home improvement shows where they evaluate the equity of peoples homes; tony bought this house for 200K 7 years ago and today it's worth 300K.

Tony: Horray! I just made 100K!!! I'm taking out an equity loan!  


Uh, tony, I don't think you understand. You haven't increased you income to pay off the additional liablity, it's equity., not real money as bankers would have you belive.

[Vinny]

always live below your means.  Have emergency cash on hand.  Just because the banker says you can afford it, doesn't mean you really can.

I love the home improvement shows where they evaluate the equity of peoples homes; tony bought this house for 200K 7 years ago and today it's worth 300K.

Tony: Horray! I just made 100K!!! I'm taking out an equity loan!  


Uh, tony, I don't think you understand. You haven't increased you income to pay off the additional liablity, it's equity., not real money as bankers would have you belive.

You hit it it dead on!

I believe I live at our means. My wife dives a '99 Plymouth Voyager and we recently had a bunch of repairs ... she wanted a new car but we can't afford the payments at this time - I do have the money and can pay cash but can't make the $350/month payments every month for 5 years. My oldest will hopefully be going to college in 2 years and it would be nice to have as much money as possible to pay as much as we can for his education.

My kids come first! My oldest went to Disney last year with the Marching Unit - minimum $1,000. He's going to Boston on Friday with the Jazz Band - minimum $400. He wanted a new drum set, he worked around the house saved $300 of "his own" (actually mom & dad's) money and we kicked in another $400 for it. I have 2 boys ... multiply all this by 1.5 (so far the youngest hasn't hit the more expensive items yet but he will).

I worked with a guy who had to buy all sorts of toys. His idea was he'll work more overtime to afford it all. He would work 12 hour days and some weekends to be able to afford it. I, being older and more wiser (?), and having gone through having kids with my wife staying home a few years before explained how he needed to stop buying stuff. I explained that affording things doesn't mean to make more money, it also means to live with what you have ... he told me to stay out of his business! Not a problem as I left on time every day and didn't work weekends!

[cburk0677]

I totally agree that living below your means is the only way to get ahead. You really have to cap your lifestyle and then from that point on no matter how much more money you might make you don't spend it but instead invest it or use it to pay off all of your debt including your mortgage.

I also agree that hottubs are a major luxury. My wife and I make enough money to be able to afford a hottub but my goal was to pay for as much of our hottub as possible without taking any money out of our incomes from our jobs.

Thanks to the popularity of the nintendo wii this past Christmas I was able to pay for almost 90% of our hottub. That means our 2006 Vanguard is only costing us about $1500 out of pocket. Sure I froze my butt off numerous times in front of bestbuy camping out for systems to resell but to me it was worth it!  We probably would not have bought a hottub if we had to pay for all of it out of our regular income.

[thearm]

OK.  If hot tubs are a luxury so is everything beyond the basics, that millions of Amricans pay for every day.  RVs, Jet Skis, HD TVs (seen the display at Costco?), vacations, the types of cars and trucks we drive, etc.  

So, if hot tubs are a luxury, then, with some rethinnking, they are an affordable luxury.

Hotubdaan,
I have to agree with Vinny also that a hottub is a luxury item. Just because you can buy them doesn't mean you can afford them. 500,000 new foreclosures predicted isn't peanuts and your talking about someone's house that is going to be repossessed. If people are going to let there houses go back to the bank don't you think this is indictative of people making bad choices about some of life's basic needs. I believe like Vinny that we are programed to think we can have it all by just signing on the dotted line and wonder later how we are going to pay for it. However I also believe that most have the ability to buy a hottub if they so deem it a priority and are willing to sacrifice something else. Living within your means is easy to say but difficult to do IMO.

[anne]

OK.  If hot tubs are a luxury so is everything beyond the basics, that millions of Amricans pay for every day.  RVs, Jet Skis, HD TVs (seen the display at Costco?), vacations, the types of cars and trucks we drive, etc.  

So, if hot tubs are a luxury, then, with some rethinnking, they are an affordable luxury.

Yeah, all those things are luxuries. I do consider anything beyond the basics of paying mortgage, *saving money*, not stressing about what to wear or eat and basic fun like a movie here and there, to be a luxury. For a few people, I can see that a hot tub would be so critical to physical comfort to be more of a necessity, but for most of us, that is not the case. "Affordable" is relative- a hot tub is no more or less "affordable" than any of those other things that cost 8-11K, it is just a matter of choice. Most people can afford a little luxury here and there, if they are careful about day to day spending, but a tub or other big item is a BIG luxury that I feel very lucky to have. I drive a honda, shop conservatively and cook rather than eat out. Because of that, and a raise, I was able to choose to get a tub. I guess I could have picked a home theater, or jet skiis, or whatever, but not more than one!  (I *do* get a home theater, though, since that's my boyfriend's *choice* of a luxury, so I guess I get both!!!

[hottbpete]

I find most people are living beyond their means.  Credit card debt in the US is higher then ever.....that is just stupide debt.  Then again we are an IPOD christmas society....I am not sure about you, but my parnets were not spending $300 plus on just one of many gifts they gave me.  The keep up with the jones's is unbelivable.  

By the way, I bought my kid a Sansa 250...at $69 dollars witha $30 reabte at office max...it was a great buy at $39.  My kid loves it....it does more then an IPOD....and it stiffenss my kid's backbone!

If you look at a Hottub...it's probably the 3rd or 4th most expensive item people buy.  House, Car  then toys

I say live cheap early on and make some dough....then you can spend it....when you have it.  Don't owe anybody but the bank on your house.....and make sure you own at least 25% of the original equity.  That's a safe strategy.

[Vinny]

I find most people are living beyond their means.  Credit card debt in the US is higher then ever.....that is just stupide debt.  Then again we are an IPOD christmas society....I am not sure about you, but my parnets were not spending $300 plus on just one of many gifts they gave me.  The keep up with the jones's is unbelivable.  

By the way, I bought my kid a Sansa 250...at $69 dollars witha $30 reabte at office max...it was a great buy at $39.  My kid loves it....it does more then an IPOD....and it stiffenss my kid's backbone!

If you look at a Hottub...it's probably the 3rd or 4th most expensive item people buy.  House, Car  then toys

I say live cheap early on and make some dough....then you can spend it....when you have it.  Don't owe anybody but the bank on your house.....and make sure you own at least 25% of the original equity.  That's a safe strategy.

My oldest needed an IPOD, at 16 it's all about name brand (it's also seems for older people too) and he got one this Christmas. The Christmas before he got a Sandisk 512 MB. I think the IPOD is nice but you do get more features in a Sandisk. He's a kid and I'm hoping he'll outgrow it, I already warned hi to plan on making a lot of money as his tastes are expensive.

I think how to live is dictated by your situation in life. If you're 25 and live at home ... bank as much as you can and spoil yourself a little too. If you're 25 and have 2 kids then buckle down and forget the toys. Having money and possibly a house are the 2 most important items to me. My wife and I decided that we were not going to strap ourselves just for a house ... the bankers model of 28% housing payment is fine by us. We made mistakes along the way but they were never too bad.

[thearm]

My oldest needed an IPOD,


Are you sure he needed it? I have to disagree with this statement as thinking like this can lead to big trouble down the road. EG: I need to live in a 6000sf home, I need to drive a 50,000.00 SUV, I need to have all the latest gadgets and toys. There is a very large gap between NEEDS and WANTS. For the most part I believe as Americans we are very blessed with what we have and don't realize the high standard of living most of us are enjoying.

[Vinny]

My oldest needed an IPOD,


Are you sure he needed it? I have to disagree with this statement as thinking like this can lead to big trouble down the road. EG: I need to live in a 6000sf home, I need to drive a 50,000.00 SUV, I need to have all the latest gadgets and toys. There is a very large gap between NEEDS and WANTS. For the most part I believe as Americans we are very blessed with what we have and don't realize the high standard of living most of us are enjoying.

I should have put it in quotes ... my sarcasm didn't come through!!!

[BxCowboy]

I need my iPOD so I can drown out those voices in my head that keep talking to me. :-/