Question regarding chlorine

[Late Innings]

We needed more dichlor, (leasure spa 56 chlorine) so the wife stopped at lesiles (pool and spa supply) but they were out. When she went to our Sundance dealer (out of her way), he told her he wasn't carrying leasure products and sold her something he said was better.  (SpaGuard Oxidizer)  When compairing the two products the SpaGuard is 58% chlorine and the Leasure is in the 90's.... I'm not crazy about that as it means I'll have to use almost twice as much to accomplish the same thing.    I did a water change last week since I had a bad motor on the tub and it had to be replaced ( waranty)and since have started using pool shock that I buy in a 70# bucket...   Can anyone tell me if using pool shock is harmful.  I'm thinking its not.  the only draw back is that the granules are a little larger but I always run the jets when I chlorinate so I'm sure it all disolves before the pumps kick off.( 20 min)    Thanks!  I'd really like to keep using the pool shock as I only need about a teaspoon after the both of us soak and I know it burns off quickly.    

[Vinny]

Dichlor is dichlor, sometimes pool shock is cal hypo.

The numbers on dichlor can be a little confusing. There's the available # and the active #. Available # is in the range of 97% to 99%, active can be from 52% to 62%.

The more the active number, the less chlorine you need to get to a certain PPM.

[Late Innings]

The pool shock is 73% calcium hypo, the SpaGuard is 58.2% Sodium Dichlor, and the Leasure Time is 99% Sodium Dichlor.    All are active indgredients.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Spa 56 CONTAINS  99% chlorine, but PROVIDES 55% AVAILABLE CHLORINE

ALL chlorine lists TWO numbers. The percentage of ingredients, and the persentage of available chlorine.

What you got (SpaGuard), will acutaly require about 6% less to achieve te same ppm in your spa

[Micah]

The pool shock is 73% calcium hypo, the SpaGuard is 58.2% Sodium Dichlor, and the Leasure Time is 99% Sodium Dichlor.    All are active indgredients.

Watch out for cal hypo.  That is some nasty stuff.  It is designed for use in a "white plaster pool" only.  if your pool is colored or fiberglass then the cal hypo will bleach out the color or "burn" the fiberglass.  
In your case if you have an acrylic spa it is a big time no-no.  

[Late Innings]

Thanks... You guys have been very helpful..!!!

[Vinny]

Watch out for cal hypo.  That is some nasty stuff.  It is designed for use in a "white plaster pool" only.  if your pool is colored or fiberglass then the cal hypo will bleach out the color or "burn" the fiberglass.  
In your case if you have an acrylic spa it is a big time no-no.  

HUH???

Chlorine is chlorine. I've used cal hypo now for 6 years in my pool. I've also used bleach and trichlor. I have an above ground pool and although the liner is starting to fade somewhat I would imagine it would be starting to fade even if I didn't use cal hypo. In a pool you don't want it to pile on the floor ... that'll get it bleached out. The problem with cal hypo is that it'll add calcium to the pool and if you don't watch it your hardness will go through the roof.

I will agree  - do not use cal hypo in a spa.

[Micah]

HUH???

Chlorine is chlorine. I've used cal hypo now for 6 years in my pool. I've also used bleach and trichlor. I have an above ground pool and although the liner is starting to fade somewhat I would imagine it would be starting to fade even if I didn't use cal hypo. In a pool you don't want it to pile on the floor ... that'll get it bleached out. The problem with cal hypo is that it'll add calcium to the pool and if you don't watch it your hardness will go through the roof.

I will agree  - do not use cal hypo in a spa.

Vinny im not trying to pick a fight, but chlorine is NOT chlorine.  The chemical make up of tri-clor, di-clor, cal-hypo, lithiumhyporclorite and sodium hyperclorite have vast differances.  For instance tri-clor and calhypo are designed strictly for "White Plaster Pools".  Not fiberglass pools (per hawaiian and viking start up sheets) not vinal liner (per splash superpools ) and certinly not spas.  I have a feeling that you will not be able to find a spa store that carries tri-clor tablets, or cal-hypo for spas.  Only pool stores like leslies and of course big box stores where you "think" you are saving money only to find out later it wasn't as good of a deal as you thought.  

[Reese]

Vinny im not trying to pick a fight, but chlorine is NOT chlorine.  The chemical make up of tri-clor, di-clor, cal-hypo, lithiumhyporclorite and sodium hyperclorite have vast differances.  For instance tri-clor and calhypo are designed strictly for "White Plaster Pools".  Not fiberglass pools (per hawaiian and viking start up sheets) not vinal liner (per splash superpools ) and certinly not spas.

I can understand why one might link cal-hypo and plaster pools, but what makes trichlor only for plaster, and not vinyl liners?

Micah, I don't think you are trying to pick a fight, but you have been making some pretty bold statements here and in the salt water spas thread that are a little outside conventional wisdom, and we'd just like some explanation.  I understood the issue with cal-hypo and spas to be the pH and extra calcium, not aggressive bleaching.  Likewise the common issue with trichlor is the pH, and rapid dissolving in warm water.  There were some questions raised by your statements in the salt-water thread that I'm also curious about, so if you have a chance, I'd appreciate your input there as well.

[Vinny]

It would seem that the vast majority of people use trichlor in all their pools. My dealer who also sells inground pools gave me trichlor to use. I did not buy my pool at Leslies or a big box store. The only thing that I have heard is that you don't want to plop a bunch of chlorine, any chlorine into a pool and not have it circulate. Most people are unaware that at higher levels stabilizer renders chlorine ineffective, heck probably some dealers don't know that.

Trichlor has a ph of about 4, Cal hypo has a ph of about 13 so does liquid chlorine or bleach. Dichlor has a PH of about 7

Trichlor has stabilizer in it as does dichlor but the trichlor pucks have a binding agent.

I can't speak of lithium, I never had the opportunity to try it.

Yes, they are all chemically different and you shouldn't mix the different chlorine with each other but in the water 3 PPM trichlor chlorine is the same as 3 PPM cal hypo chlorine. Trichlor will try to drive the PH down and cal hypo will try drive the PH up. Trichlor will add stabilizer as will dichlor; cal hypo will add calcium. Bleach will drive the PH up and add a lot of TDS to the water.

Now for trichlor in a spa. Some of the Canadian folks here have said their dealer had them on trichlor. Emerald Spa does recommend trichlor to use. When I was interested in them I questioned them about that and the Emerald person told me yes. Would I use trichlor in a spa - no. But I would imagine a trichlor puck is similar to a bromine puck ... binders and PH wise. Would I use cal hypo in a spa - again no!

Would I limit what I use in a pool - not at all. Other than possibly using a Baqua type product I would imagine that any pool liner will be about the same after x number of years regardless of the type of chlorine you used.

[Micah]

Reese,
The reason that tri-clor tabs are not recomended for use in vinal liner pools is that they have a tendency to crumble.  when the "crumbles" sit on the bottom of the pool (for up to a couple of days) untill they dissolve they sit there and not only bleach the liner but the low acidity makes the liner brittle.  The following is a liist of companies that recomend using not using tri-clor or cal hypo.  

1. softtub (Vinal liners)
2. Splash super pools (vinal liners)
3. Comfort tub (vinal liners)
4. Viking Pools (Fiberglass)Cal hypo is allowed if it is pre dissolved
5 Hawaiian Pools (Fiberglass)

[Reese]

The reason that tri-clor tabs are not recomended for use in vinal liner pools is that they have a tendency to crumble.  when the "crumbles" sit on the bottom of the pool (for up to a couple of days) untill they dissolve they sit there and not only bleach the liner but the low acidity makes the liner brittle.

So it sounds like an application issue, not the chemical itself?  Don't most pool people use some sort of feeder?  If so, would that allow the "crumbles"?  I know I've heard of people throwing tablets in skimmers or directly in the pool and having problems, but I assume that any chemical applied improperly will cause problems.

[Vinny]

OK, now I have to admit I've never heard of using trichlor tabs without a floater or a feeder. I do know that some people use trichlor in their filter, same with the new cal hypo pucks.

Since I don't use floaters in the pool, where would crumbling trichlor tabs come from? Do the pieces come from the floater. BTW this is the reason I don't like or use floaters. I can see one of these things getting caught by the ladder and bleaching out a section. Or get stuck in the filter. Actually when I use trichlor I put it in a Rainbow in line feeder, I don't want that acidic mixture going into the motor for hours. I do dump cal hypo into the filter and I would imagine that in 1/2 hour the chlorine is disolved.

Micah, I think that they don't allow it due to the problem you just said. There will be people who throw chlorine into a pool and get it bleached out. Assuming a person uses any type of chlorine correctly I doubt that they will see a problem.

My liner is 6 years old and I have no bleached spots. My liner has faded a little but I think it would have faded regardless of the chlorine used. I have used a mixture of trichlor, bleach and cal hypo. I watch my water balance and make sure nothing gets too out of wack. Will my liner last another 6 years, I have no clue. All chlorine will make the liner brittle and all you need is a rip, puncture or have a seam go and you'll need a new liner.

Assuming that any chlorine is used properly what is the difference of a pool with 3 PPM Trichlor chlorine vs 3 PPM sodium hypochlorite chlorine? Assume both pools have the same water balance. I think you'll find that there is no difference. If you use one type over another and don't watch the water balance then you can have problems.

[hottubdan]

As tablets erode or disolve, they can fall through the cracks of a floater (depending on the floater) and small pieces of the material can sit undisolved on the surface, be it fiberglass, acrylic or vinyl.  Not good.

[drewstar]

Most pools now use an in-lin chlorine feeder.  (My fataher in law swears by in line feeders and insists he purchase and install one for me.  ok-hey knock yourself out.   I have a smaller pool and simply add ine or two 3" slo tab into the filter basket works great....  Floaters are horrible and the only time I have seen them used are on the small, low end pools that you see at walmart and such.  Some of the lower end triclor pucks can crumble pretty easily and don't disolve at a steady rate.