Some questions for you wiser folks....

[Spatech_tuo]

http://www.aqua-whirlpools.de/aqua_whirlpool/whirlpool_universum_spa/whirlpool_universum_spa.html

Das ist sehr interessant!




[size=9]Massagebad Techniker t.u.o.[/size]

[redwright]

THANK YOU! That's exactly what I was looking for on the Bullfrog. Makes total sense. I will spout all that information back at Himself (and act like I'm REALLY smart.)


[size=9]he sent me the photo of a german spa??? [/size]  

*grumble*

[East_TX_Spa]

Gunter glieben glauchen globen!

Terminachtung!

[loosenupspas]

geeeeeeeez......ask a simple question and wow what a headache from reading all the convolutions.  As a dealer mind you......the California Cooperage # 103 is a tight round spa.  could run you high high 3's to mid 4's......freeze protection ask your local dealer.....as i am in fla. and am happy to be clueless about that.  tornados, hurricanes, gators v. buckeyes...those are issue i can help you with.......

[In Canada eh]

I would have several concerns over Bullfrog but the biggest on in your area would be that in order for that system to work you have a "trunk line" feeding the jetpacks along the top of the shell where the shell tapers into the cabinet. This line is more likely to fail than any other part of the spa due to the fact that it has movable unions at several points. The problem here is that it has less insulation and is harder to get to than any other piece of plumbing in the spa.

My estimate is that you won't see a failure in that hose until the month after the warranty runs out!

You also won't get nearly the performance overall in that system as you will most other systems due to the fact that you need to share several manifold processes in the same line.

Stuart,

    I normally agree with most of your posts but this one really lost me.  If you think about it, all tubs share the same manifold  ie. the pump volute.  Any tubs water/jet pressure is reliant on the pump volute design and the impellors ability to move water.  That being said,  our tub has 4 jetpacks with one 4.8 hp pump and provides a more powerful massage then alot of other tubs I have been in.

Redwright,

    Bullfrog makes a very good tub, they use the same high quality components as the other guys.  Bullfrog uses Aquaflo pumps,  Balboa controls, Dell ozone generators, Waterway jets, etc. etc. they also come with a very good warranty.  We have had ours for about a year now and are very happy.

   In the past Bullfrog may have had a problem with the water behind the jetpacks not being properly circulated, they have corrected this with the addition of a 3/8"  line in behind the jetpack  to keep the water there circulated and chlorinated. I personally would include Bullfrog with the likes of Caldera, Coleman, Marquis, Epic etc.  They are not in the same boat as Hot Springs, Sundance and high end Jacuzzi but they are cheaper!

   As far as the insulation goes, our tub has added about $20 to $25 per month to our electric bill over this winter and I'm sure that is lower than alot of other peoples.  We were told to expect $30 or $1 per day and have been pleasantly surprised.  We are located in Southwestern Ontario, so our winters are simalar.

   Some of the best advise you can get is to wet test the tubs you are looking at, make sure you fit and that your comfortable, then you can determine what is best for you

                                                           Good luck in your search

[Tom]

My husband and I are really excited about buying our first spa....we do want to make a smart purchase.

So anyone who can comment on my questions -- jump in please!

1.  Like I said, we are easily influenced by bells and whistles so we thought the Bullfrog was fun and interesting. But I hear a lot of negative talk about this brand. Can you tell me what the specific issues with this brand are? What are its drawbacks and problems?

2.  What is the best round spa for 5-6 people?

3.  Does anyone have suggestions or knowledge of good dealers here in Minnesota?

4.  Are there brands we should avoid because of our FREEZING COLD winters? (We're planning on installing our spa in a new 3-season porch ... but there are still dreadful windchills here.)

Nice to meet you all ... and thanks in advance for any info you wanna pass along.

Red

Welcome to the forum; we wish you happy spa shopping.

Arctic Spas has dealers in Burnsville and Dundas, MN, and if one of those is convenient you might take a look at the new Coyote line.  Not much for bells and whistles, but there are some nice models--including some round ones--that offer good thermal efficiency in the price range you've quoted.

Other readers are invited to check out the new line too. I think they're pretty snazzy, but I'll admit to being biased!
 http://www.coyotespas.com

[Chad]

[Ruby]

Another Minnesotan joins the board!!!  Welcome Redwright!

I can't comment about the other brands, but I can comment about Valley Pools and Spas.
Which location are you looking at?  I bought from Andover and the people over there are great,  they've been in business for 25+ years.  They are always very helpful when I call with questions and the times that I've needed service, they were out promptly.  Dennis and Rich are the service techs and Rich also sells at the Andover location on Sundays.  (at least he did the last time I saw him) They are awesome!  You can't go wrong with Valley or the Marquis brand.
Good Luck!

[redwright]

Ruby! I just talked to Valley Pool yesterday! And, yes, they were adorable and very helpful.  We're heading over there once my husband gets his current show open this weekend.

And I love the photo, WN!

Good morning everyone.  

[drewstar]

As far as Bullfrogs spas, I can recall a few posters who had Bullfrog spas saying overall they were happy with them, but as far as the jet packs, they found that they never changed them out.  So if you are thinking you'd buy a BF because you can change and upgrade the packs,  I've nerver heard of anyone actaully doing that.

Just a data point to consider.

By a spa that fits you and has a nice variety of jets and seating options.

[stuart]

In_Canada

I'm glad that we share viewpoints on other things...Just about everyone here has agreed with me once in awhile and disagreed with me probably just as much. Seeing someone else’s reality is one of the hardest things to do in life especially when their reality challenges you personal choices.

Putting a Circ pump on to get circulation around hoses that will get stagnant floating in the stew is nothing more than a bandage for a design flaw. Why would you add more systems to fail like extra pumps and plumbing? Doesn't that go against the philosophy of exterior plumbing? Do you honestly believe that with all that plumbing floating in the water a circ pump will get to every nook and cranny?

If an auto manufacture suggested that we start putting the hoses inside the engine where the fluids could cause deterioration on both sides we would laugh at them.

If you've been around the service end of the industry long you will see that when you have to replace plumbing the wear is not on the outside that is exposed to air and foam but it deteriorates from the inside where the water and chemicals can corrode it over time. That "outer shell" on a plumbing line is many times the one thing that extends the life of the hose. fully immersing it in the medium that causes corrosion when you don't have to is poor engineering.

Again that trunk line is very difficult to get to up under the lip and again it is much closer to the outside cold on top than it would be down in the cabinet area. That can add to cost of operation and even freezing at times.

Anyone that owns a spa in a cold climate has turned on the jets once in awhile and gotten a short blast of cooler water on really cold days from water in the pipes closer to the outside that sat for a few hours.

BF knocked on our door for 2 years and gave us thier pitch then begged us for a year to help them on service. It's rare that we turn down a mass service oppertunity but we didn't want to go there.

It's a great salespitch and the benifit of being able to customize the spa at the time of purchase is cool but  the design has to many long term variables open to failure for me to ever endorse it.

[In_Too_Long]

Does Bullfrog even make a round tub?

[stuart]

Oh I almost forgot! Every JetPack requires a manifold to opperate. In fact the top of every Jetpack is a manifold that is more subject to movement and corrosion than most other systems.

Not only are the manifolds subject to the movement of the water in the hoses attached but now unlike a manifold with hoses attached that is held firm by foam the hoses are "flopping" in a stew of chlorinated water creating more movement at the manifold joint than just about any other system. All in all it sounds more like a marketing design than an engineering design.

[Reese]

Stuart, I have read enough of your posts to know that you are trying to offer an honest assesment on a product in hopes of helping people make a good purchase decision.  It is obvious that you aren't impressed by Bullfrog:o, but I have to wonder if it has been around long enough for your concerns to be proven valid?   I don't have any skin in this discussion, but I have counseled folks in the past not to take criticism of the brand they purchased personally.  I realize that InCanada brought some of this on by comparing Bullfrog to Caldera and Marquis, and implying that HS, Sundance, and Jacuzzi were a cut above those other respected brands.  I appreciate your knowledge, experience and input... but in this case, this much negative discussion of a brand (that doesn't appear to even make a round tub, which was the original request) seems a little like going out of your way to tell someone that their child is ugly.

As far as the design "flaws",  couldn't they also be viewed as "compromises" necessary to give the benefit of changeable packs?  To me, each manufacturer/design has some compromises built in.  For example:
 - FF tubs with the equipment compartment more exposed to the elements vs TP tubs with motors in a hot working environment.
- 100% no-bypass limiting water flow and perhaps jet pressures bypass tubs with unfiltered water moving through the system
- Neckflex pillows and Motomessage jets with movable parts and hoses exposed to water much as your bullfrog manifold example, but unique massage.
- Pumps for individual seats vs diverters and the issues with each.
- Disposable filters that may restrict water flow and cost more, but provide convenience and perhaps better filtering.
The list could go on and on, but in each case a proponent of one feature could view the other as a design flaw driven by marketing.

IMO, people shopping for a tub need to decide what is important to them, consider what the compromises are, and decide what best fits their needs.  If seating flexibility/customization is a major concern, perhaps the other design concerns are worth living with.

Just my 2 cents.

[redwright]

"Again that trunk line is very difficult to get to up under the lip and again it is much closer to the outside cold on top than it would be down in the cabinet area. That can add to cost of operation and even freezing at times."

This is kinda HUGE to us Northerners. Our spa will be on an enclosed porch with only a corn stove for heat. So the idea of freezing things ..... yeah ... that's pretty high on the list of worries.

Right now (Wet tests may change my mind) the Marquis is the most attractive for our project!

But I am learning TONS just listening to you guys!

Red