hostility

[anne]

I am of the opinion that there has been some hypocrisy and meanness here in the last few days, but I'd be delighted if others could convince me that this is not so. I have slowly developed respect for this forum's attempt to treat all spa owners and brands equally, but then there are days that it seems to be such a farce. I know that you know of what I speak, and I'm not looking to have ANOTHER locked thread, so if all you have is bitterness or spite, keep it to yourself.

In my view, the only thing Perogie did wrong was not address himself as an Arctic dealer, if that is what he is, so his statements were perceived as bad marketing. From historic threads here I can see that some may have immediately gotten their knickers is a twist over this, but COME ON. And I, like most others, just dont want to debate "dead horse" cr@p all day, but like spahappy said, 'certain well known posters/spa saleman on this forum can drone on and one about what they see as the benifits of the brand of spa they sell and claim they have " the best filtration/technology/insulation in the industry"  and thats fine.' Even the ol'  FF vs TP doesn't get as heated as when someone says the A word.

I have been as subject as anyone here to Arctic's bad sales techniques, but I'm going to give any newbie here a little room to get to know us all. Ya'll have gotten so cynical and jaded that it is sad. I'm one of the most cynical people I know, and I'm still dismayed. This group can be like a pack of dogs sometimes, going for the one that is down. Sure, you need to be thick skinned to stay on any forum, but that does not mean that the SAME group of people should regularly feel ostracized. We should have equality in criticism.  

[spahappy]

Well said Anne!!!

[Repeat_Offender]

Well said but impractical as the loudest and sometimes rudest voices here are of salespeople who will turn the most innocent questions into a reason their tubs are best.  Myself and a few others here are in the minoity as Bullfrog owners, and already have been the subject of scornful remarks by several so called educated sales people. Speaking only for myself, I avoid any direct comparisons to any other name brands when talking about specific problems or features. You're right though, there is much knowledge here. Too bad egos and the feeling of self import most times cloud that knowledge.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 It happens on a lot of forums not just this one.  Most people can just move on and some can take it very personal as sad as that might be.

 I think here its some of the competition in sales which every salesman faces every day no matter what the product is,everyone thinks theres is the best, hey we are entitled to that, if someone ask a question about a specific spa most here are able to give there advise and thoughts on that spa, but move over if there is another dealer that wants to put his 2 cents worth into the pot,chances are your not selling the guy/gal a spa anyway so whats it even matter except the fact every dealer here would love to see them in there brand of spa, but let them decide what will work for them and give them the best advise you can which I feel most dealers/salesman/saleswomen do here.

 The worst thing you can do on any forum is feed a troll!! All they do is keep aging you on to get as much chit stirred up as possible on any given forum.

 Did Perogie deserve what he/she got probably not, but if he/she wants to contribute to the common good then I am sure he/she could come back and post his/her thoughts lets hope this happens but if he/she is not able to do that it will show up pretty quick.

 Anyway thats my 2 cents worth, weather its right or not its MY opinion.

[Chad]

Since where on the subject of hostility, the movie Hostel was great. I heard some talk of a sequel. I can't wait!

hostel-
1.  a hotel providing overnight lodging for travelers  
2.  inexpensive supervised lodging
hostile-
1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of an enemy  
2. opposed in feeling, action, or character; antagonistic  
3. characterized by antagonism.  
4. not friendly, warm, or generous; not hospitable.  

[Zep]

Anne.....There is definitely an element of "my tub's better than yours" on this message board but I suppose it would be odd to expect otherwise.

I find in life that it is sometimes difficult for many people to rejoice in other's success/happiness or to cheer for others taking a different path from their own.

I work with people that whenever someone quits they immediately start quietly attacking the person leaving implying that they are an idiot, or that the person departing is gonna fail at their new endeavor....blah blah blah.

Such is life........just be thankful you are not afflicted with this insecurity!

[wmccall]

In my opinion, (the one with the most weight right now)  That thread was started just for the point of starting the tired old debate all over again.   Term does use that 100% filtration cartoon quite a bit, but its usually meant to be amusing.

My sensitivity here has been heightened recently, and I may become a littler heavier handed for awhile.

[Spatech_tuo]

Maybe it would have been better received if he'd dipped his toes in the water first rather than attempting a Triple Lindy on his first dive into the website. I thought it was a bit over the top in his first couple posts but many of us have made some bold statements in the past so we'll hold off on the petition to have him flogged.  

[Chas]

'certain well known posters/spa saleman on this forum can drone on and one about what they see as the benifits of the brand of spa they sell and claim they have " the best filtration/technology/insulation in the industry"  

Sorry. I'll try to ease off a bit.

[perogie]

This is my last post here on this fourm.  We all know arctic pricing is higher than other brands out there.  

i think people that live in the south do not understand what difference in temperature makes on trying to keep water warm.

my posts where not to say that FF is not a good way to insulate.  it is.   my point was you need to insulate everything that you dont want to freeze.   If you cant see that leaving something non-insulated is not a good idea, then i dont know what to say.

up here in the winters if you dont want something to freeze you have to insulate.  

so having everything that can freeze insulated is a better idea than only having half the product that way.

i'm not sure what it matters who i am or what i do.   there is a company out there called havenspas that has a website out there that suggests the same ideas.


good bye

[MostlyLurkingGal]

i'm not sure what it matters who i am or what i do.   there is a company out there called havenspas that has a website out there that suggests the same ideas.

Well, I think that says it all.

[anne]

This is my last post here on this fourm.  We all know arctic pricing is higher than other brands out there.  

i think people that live in the south do not understand what difference in temperature makes on trying to keep water warm.

my posts where not to say that FF is not a good way to insulate.  it is.   my point was you need to insulate everything that you dont want to freeze.   If you cant see that leaving something non-insulated is not a good idea, then i dont know what to say.

up here in the winters if you dont want something to freeze you have to insulate.  

so having everything that can freeze insulated is a better idea than only having half the product that way.

i'm not sure what it matters who i am or what i do.   there is a company out there called havenspas that has a website out there that suggests the same ideas.


good bye

Perogie!!!!!!! I was trying to help you!!!!! What the H&ll??? Arctic pricing? Insulate everything? HAVEN??? You're right, MLG- that says it all. I still stand by what I said, but I'm pissed at him now, too.

[anne]

Sorry. I'll try to ease off a bit.

I wasn't pointing fingers.  Well, not in any very specific direction, that is

[anne]

Since where on the subject of hostility, the movie Hostel was great. I heard some talk of a sequel. I can't wait!

hostel-
1.  a hotel providing overnight lodging for travelers  
2.  inexpensive supervised lodging
hostile-
1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of an enemy  
2. opposed in feeling, action, or character; antagonistic  
3. characterized by antagonism.  
4. not friendly, warm, or generous; not hospitable.  

Er, I didn't misspell it......or are you just throwing that out there in an attempt to demonstrate that you dont care about the real subject?

[Reese]

Since perogie has said goodbye, the question of how he was greeted is somewhat moot.  However, since I was one of the folks to question his motives, I'll offer an explanation of why I participated in the less than warm welcome.

As a spa owner, I find the industry people's contributions helpful -- when they don't go overboard positioning their brand or its features as as "best"!  IMO, if perogie had taken the time to read some of the history on this site, he'd have seen that recital of marketing materials/sales training usually gets shouted down pretty quickly, regardless of brand.  Perhaps he underestimated the audience.  I think that coming out of the gate spouting obvious sales points made many of us wary.  When he did the little passive/aggressive thing of typing another company's name in lower case, while capitalizing the one he preferred, followed by disingenuously posting his "innocent question" regarding a completely frozen tub as a set up for an opportunity to play up another marketing point of his favorite tub -- IMO he got the same reception that any member would have.  If I remember correctly, if you look back to the thread where an infamous "filtration diagram" first appeared, it got plenty of negative response, as have several other folks who have tried to positon their tub as best.  IMO, the ones who didn't pack their bags and leave contribute greatly to the discussion on this forum.

I agree that the Watkins folks tend to get away with more, probably because there are more of them on the board, and there are only a few representatives of other brands that come here frequently enough to call them on it.  Realistically the two biggest Watkins promoters get away with it for reasons other than brand favoritism.  Term's humor, and Chas' willingness to help folks, buy them some tolerance when they slip into sales mode.  Luckily, they don't abuse it too often.  The other Watkins reps don't go out of bounds any more often than the other brands, and a couple actually go out of their way to keep their brand preferences hidden in order to offer helpul advice.  

I know the owners of brands like Arctic, Master, Bullfrog, etc have to endure a lot of negative statements about the brand they decided was best for them.  While I'm sure that it isn't fun to read that constantly, I'm also surprised that they take it so personally.  The negative comments are usually about a the way a tub is marketed, not the tub itself (Bullfrog, excepted) and I don't see why that would be a reflection on the individuals who own them.  As I have said before, owners like Anne, Bosco, WSD, In Canada, and many others do more for the reputations of the brands they own, than anyone who comes on here trying to promote them ever accomplishes.