Obervations on circualtion pumps.

[Chas]

Yes, you can avoid freezing in a tub with a circulation pump - that is one of many reasons that HS puts the heater on it's own circuit breaker. If the heater has an issue, the rest of the tub can keep going, and it will stall off freezing for a very long time, perhaps indefinitely.

In our mild weather, the circ pump by itself can raise the temp of a HS tub to the mid nineties - and hold it there. Obviously, that is not just because the water is in motion like the lake example above, but in the case of the hot tub there is a samll amount of heat imparted into the water and motor compartment as well, and the fully insulated tub captures and holds that heat.

Vermonter fired up his Grandee once in the dead of a snowy winter with the heater switched off. It took a few days, but the thing got up to around 98 degrees on just the circ pump. Brad - correct me if I have that wrong please.

 BTW - I have seen air blowers used to keep the water from freezing around a dock. They run the air down to a pipe with holes in it down the length of the dock. The bubble action brings up warmer water from the depths, and keeps the water in gentle motion. Seems to work, but they make noise. The submersible pumps are pretty much silent.

8-)

[Gary]

However, my expereince on the lake got me thinking how it might work in relation to freezing. If the heater went out, but not the power, it would make a difference in the tub, nbut would it in the pipes and jet pumps?

So with that theory I spa that uses the low speed of the jet pump to circulate the water for heat would be a better system, because it moves 10 times the amount of water. Heater fails and a circ pump system still only moves 7-8GPM, a non-circ pump system would move 60-80GPM (depend on the pump).

So with a non-circ pump system it would take much longer for it to freeze up.

Thanks Drewstar, I never been a big fan of those little circ pumps and now I have another reason not to like them.


 

[drewstar]

So with that theory I spa that uses the low speed of the jet pump to circulate the water for heat would be a better system, because it moves 10 times the amount of water. Heater fails and a circ pump system still only moves 7-8GPM, a non-circ pump system would move 60-80GPM (depend on the pump).

So with a non-circ pump system it would take much longer for it to freeze up.

Thanks Drewstar, I never been a big fan of those little circ pumps and now I have another reason not to like them.


 

Huh?  

When you say a "nom circ pump system", do you mean a tub  that doesn't use a circ pump at all, or a tub that uses the jet pumps on low for double duty and as a circ pump as you suggested?

using the larger pumps for ciruclation would work. It would cost you more and a bit of overkill, but ok.

 
Why the hate for circ pumps? mine works fine.

Was you dog killed by a circ pump or something?  

[Spatech_tuo]

So with that theory I spa that uses the low speed of the jet pump to circulate the water for heat would be a better system, because it moves 10 times the amount of water. Heater fails and a circ pump system still only moves 7-8GPM, a non-circ pump system would move 60-80GPM (depend on the pump).

So with a non-circ pump system it would take much longer for it to freeze up.

Thanks Drewstar, I never been a big fan of those little circ pumps and now I have another reason not to like them.


 

I'd say it depends on how well they transfer the heat to teh water. As Chas indicated (and I have seen as well) some of the circ pumps transfer a very high % of their heat directly to the water. Though the low speed pump moves more water and generates more heat it's heat transfer isn't as direct from the pump to the water but instead it heats up the cabinet more so how well it transfers that heat to the water becomes the question. In reality, if your heater goes out and the filtration pump still works (either circ pump or low speed pump) your spa should be just fine for many days.  

[Chas]

Actually, the Laing circulator which HotSpring uses is water cooled. That means that it will put more heat into the water than your typical 48-frame plastic jet pump running on low speed.

The larger pump may put out more heat into the motor compartment - I hope so since it's burning more power - but that heat has to get into the tub through the shell.



 8-)

[Richs100]

Its just a lil' pump and a lil' foam.
And, don't be hatin'
(or you might wind up old, poor, unloved and re-badging someone else's spas in your front yard)

[Gary]

Was you dog killed by a circ pump or something?  

Actully I like Circ Pumps (Laing 909 & 303), between those and pressure switches I am well on my way to a third Corvette.

[drewstar]

Actully I like Circ Pumps (Laing 909 & 303), between those and pressure switches I am well on my way to a third Corvette.

then we agree.

I like circ pumps because they inject the 03 into my tub, circulate the heated water, and move the water through the filters 24 /7 at very little cost without taxing the more exspensive larger pumps.

If my heater screws up or trips. I know my water wont freeze.  

So we can agree, we both like circ pumps.  You because you like over compensating cars,    and me because I like efficent hot tubs.

[tony]

then we agree.

I like circ pumps because they inject the 03 into my tub, circulate the heated water, and move the water through the filters 24 /7 at very little cost without taxing the more exspensive larger pumps.

If my heater screws up or trips. I know my water wont freeze.  

So we can agree, we both like circ pumps.  You because you like fast over compensating cars,    and me because I like efficent hot tubs.

I also like circ pumps.  Don't need a reason.  Just like the idea of water constantly moving.  Makes me feel better.

[Brewman]

Ditto- I like the way the Optima filters.  The circ pump is on 24/7 to constantly circulate water thru the microfilter, and also heated water when it's called for.
 One of the large jet pumps can be programmed to come on for higher volume filtration thru the main pleated filter.  Mine runs 4 times per day for about 45 minutes per time, but can be programmed to run pretty much up to 24/7 if needed or wanted.
 Sundance recommends setting this pump to run 24/7 as added protection if the temperature is expected to drop below -20F.  Thankfully we haven't had that happen too much this season.  

[tanstaafl2]

Some companies use pumps built to capture the heat generated by the pump and put it back into the water in a more direct way than just heating the inside of the cabinet.

DM Industries, the manufacturer of Vita and Reflections does that. I am sure others must do so as well. Don't know if this is exactly the same as a water cooled pump that was mentioned.

http://www.vitaspa.com/spa_construction/heet.htm


Can't recall who the pump manufacturer is for DM Industries. But I know that with the circ pump running 24 hours as mine does it takes a long time for the spa to lose a lot of heat even in fairly cold weather, even with the heater off.

[Gary]

 You because you like over compensating cars,    and me because I like efficent hot tubs.

I like big trucks also, I have an 03 Silverado with a 6" lift and 35" tires, dual exhaust, air intake... and my motorcycle has a 1.8L v-twin (that's 18000CC), 110HP.


No more Internet today have to make some money, I think I got four circ pumps (Laing) and a stuck moto jet to do today.

[drewstar]

I like big trucks also, I have an 03 Silverado with a 6" lift and 35" tires, dual exhaust, air intake... and my motorcycle has a 1.8L v-twin (that's 18000CC), 110HP.

so?

[East_TX_Spa]

So we can agree, we both like circ pumps.

Ya'll better watch yourselves.....if rick happens along and reads about how much you guys like circ pumps...well....it won't be pretty.

Terminator the Circ Pump Hater (if rick's reading this thread)

[East_TX_Spa]

No more Internet today have to make some money, I think I got four circ pumps (Laing) and a stuck moto jet to do today.

Assuming it's not just dirty filters, how much are you going to charge to fix the MotoMassage?  How old is the spa?  What model?

Term