HS vs. Caldera

[apple]

Being a newbie still in the research stage, I have dumb question.  The HS and Caldera spa seem very similar and I know they are both manufactured by Watkins.  Would this be similar to a comparison between Ford and Mercury? I am hoping to wet test both the Envoy and the Tahitian in about a week, but if all things are equal is one the better spa or is it all personal preference?    

[neocacher]

Some of the models are almost exact. Quality wise, I think most people would agree they are about equal.  However, there are more HS dealers than Caldera dealers.  Go with the best price and nicest dealer , in my opinion!  I have had both brands.

Neo

[Chad]

is it all personal preference?    

In your case, yes.

[apple]

I guess I am confused because my dealer sells both.  We haven't really talked rpice other than a ballpark of about $9K for the Envoy installed.  Should they be about the same in price as well?

[Reese]

At least one of the members (Chas) is a dealer who sells HS at one store, and Caldera at the other.  Another member (Bill Stevenson) has owned both an Envoy and a similar Caldera model.  If they notice the thread, you will have the benefit of a dealer and consumer perspective.

IMO, the Ford/Mercury analogy isn't far off, although Watkins may prefer a Lincoln/Jaguar/Volvo comparison. I believe it is fair to say the two brands are very similar and share many components and manufacturing techniques, although they have do have slightly different shell molds, jets, filtration systems, and perhaps warranties.  Pricing should be similar (within a few hundred $ for comparable models.)  If you are selecting between these two, go with that fits you best.  With the same parent company and dealership, the ownership experience should be the same with either one.  

[apple]

Thanks

[drewstar]

I think the differences between the HS line and the other watkins lines (including Caldera) are primary along the lines of the Moto massage and no by pass filttration.  Both are exclusive to the "hot spring" tubs.  I also understand thier new super automatic sanitiation system is also specific to the Hot Spring tubs.

[Chas]

In addition to what Drew just posted, the other differences are in the experience you will have in the spa. Very different feelings, look, and performance.
[size=12]
Jet Power[/size]
The Caldera tubs have more power. They use the same type and brand of pumps, but larger versions. You can throw the diverter over to one side and have more power than most folks find comfortable for relaxing. There are times when you want that much power for a deep massage, but most of the time you will find yourself running the diverter in the mid point with all the jets in the tub running.

The HotSpring tubs have good power, but they are more about finesse than raw power. In the long run, you pay a little more to run larger pumps. HotSpring jets are plenty powerful for most folks, in fact they offer lots of ajustments to fine-tune the oomph. You can adjust most of them individually by turning the face plates, and groups of smaller jets have an air control up top. The nozzle interchangeability comes in here as well - you can take away from the power by making nozzle changes at your whim.

[size=12]Jet Variety[/size]
The HotSpring tubs have a greater variety of jets. They have small, medium, large and extra-large jets. The small and large jets can be swapped from straight, to open (mellow) to rotary nozzles. Then there are the proprietary jets which are the MotoMassage and the Soothing Seven. I happen to like the Moto, but all of the jets are so very different in both of these tubs and you may find you like another jet or jet system better.

[size=12]Seating[/size]
HotSpring has a lumbar curve which follows your normal spinal shape in most of it's seats. Caldera goes with the reverse curve. Both have some of the other type of seats - but the majority of the seats are as stated. Both types of seating have their strong points - the lumbar hugs you and holds you in the seat a bit more, while the reverse curve allows you to slouch and adjust your depth more easily. This is about the MOST subjective part of the tub design and I will say that NEITHER of these seats feel the same wet as they do dry - so you can try them dry, but you will not be getting a good idea of seating comfort that way. Depth, size, yes. Jet location? Not really because you will usually be able to sit higher or lower comfortably when the tub is wet, and that moves the jet location up and down your back. It may not feel good to do this dry so many people dissmiss it with a two-second dry test. Not wise.

[size=12]Colors and finish[/size]
The two brands offer different colors. HotSpring has two textured colors and Caldera has one - though it is the same one or very close. The shells themselves are different in that the HotSpring has a single thick sheet of co-extruded material while the Caldera has Acrylic backed by a hand-laminated fiberglas substrate. Since we are talking about hand work, note that the Caldera tubs are built in a foreign land.

[size=12]Control system[/size]
The two brands use a very similar control system, but they are not directly interchangeable. The Caldera does run air blowers on some models, and they also have a daily filter and purge cycle. You can choose when that cycle happens, and you can even have the lights come on at the same time every day automatically. The HS does not have these two features. You can invert the display on the Caldera, but you can not do so on the HS - but you can't really see the temp display from the HS tubs anyway, so it's not a big deal.

[size=12]Blower[/size]
The Caldera offers Air Blowers on several models, HS does not. To most HotSpring dealers, a blower is not a great idea. I have sold tubs with and without blowers for two decades, and I find that most of my customers do not use the blower other than to show off their tub to friends and relatives for the 'ooh and ahh' factor. Dealers use that same factor to help sell tubs. If you are a 'Visual' shopper, or even an 'Emotional' shopper, be aware that some features do exist to sell tubs which do not translate into long-term benefits to the tub owner. This is one of them. To be fair, some folks love their blowers for various reasons. Yes, I do have some customers who have purchased Caldera over HotSpring just because their last tub had a blower and they loved it - but by far most of my customers don't care about or use the blower after the first few months. YMMV.

 8-)

[Bill_Stevenson]

I will not even attempt to exceed the thorough analysis supplied by Chas.  My experience is that I owned a Caldera Geneva Utopia for about a year, and now have owned an Envoy for about 2 years.  These two tubs are about the same size and have a very similar "look" about them.  The differences between them will be readily apparent to anyone who wet tests them.  They feel different.  Very different.  You need to try both.  Of the two, for me, the Geneva wins hands down because of the power it provides.  My wife misses the little bump on the floor too, which helped her to stay planted in the seats (she is only 5 feet tall).  Although the filtration systems are completely different, I have never noticed any appreciable difference in water quality or treatment.  In terms of reliability, the Caldera was trouble free during the period that we owned it.  The HotSpring has been repaired under warranty several times.   Offsetting this factor for us, the HS dealer is more impressive in this area than the Caldera dealer.  I believe that both brands are very well made, high quality products.

Bottom line, wet test the ones you are interested in.  Choose on the basis of which model feels best to you.

Regards,

Bill

[apple]

Thanks alot for the info, like I said before I hoping we can wet test this week.