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Author Topic: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems  (Read 13973 times)

Zep

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2007, 04:17:32 pm »
Meno and Detroit.....

Maybe I am lucky because I don't have a very
picky ear.....

whenever I have been at the audio
stores and the guy compares the real high end
to the mid levels and has that look of
"see how much better these sound?"....

I am always like "ummm I guess".

I usually can't tell much difference.

So the Bose should be fine for me
but I have always heard the Klipsch
are wonderfeul speakers.

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2007, 04:17:32 pm »

Mendocino101

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2007, 06:44:56 pm »
Zep,

Bose are nice but they have a lot of mid range which is pleasant sounding if you heard something with a lot dynamics to it, you can than really tell a difference. All that matters is that they sound good to you..... ;D

Gomboman

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2007, 02:01:53 am »
Quote
We offer outdoor speakers, The best value I know of are the Wave Audio, they are designed by the engineer who was with Klipsch and also Polk audio, the only speaker I know that are par with them for sound are the Klipsch but for more dollars. Yamaha has very nice sounding speakers that are very reasonable. We also carry both entry level and high end rock speakers as well those made by TIC that are nice and blend into a flower bed or garden.

Thanks for all the replies.

101, what receiver do you recommend for your spa systems? Do you sell receivers at your store?
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gcbrowni

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2007, 07:48:00 am »
A few years ago I upgraded my home theater and spent about 9 months researching things. I'd say you need to think about 2 things, and those will drive the rest of your decisions.

First, you want to make it as dead simple easy as possible to use your system. This would generally lead me to suggest the overpriced and lower quality built in systems. If you're just listening to the radio or CD's then that's probabally your best bet. If you want something better, or are intereste din other sourced then just pay attention to the amount of work you need to use it. Try to  make sure you don't have to do much at all to use it. As an example, I believed I would bring my portable XM boombox out and plug it in to the 110v outlet I had installed near my tub. It's not happened yet. :(

Second, I think you need to pay attention to your sources. Are you listening to radio? HD Radio? CD? MP3 player? Sat Radio? Only one of those, or multiple sources? This will drive the scope of your system: do you need a receiver or just an amp and source? A receiver will drive up your cost quite a bit.

From those two decisions I think the rest follow pretty easily. If you do go the receiver route you might check out the Panasonic SA-XR line. The older SA-XR10 (check ebay, ~$70?) will be inexpensive, small in size, and give great sound. The newer SA-XR57 is a state of the art modern receiver for about $300. Both are Class-D and will sound better than receivers costing 6x more.

As far as speakers, the ones mentioned so far would not be considered mid-range; most mentioned are now considered bargain brands, with the associated sound quality. Doing a search on 'outdoor' in the speaker section at avsforum reveals quite a few different choices and opinions in all proce ranges: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=731268

Consensus seems to be: get a big woofer, and check out Niles and Mirage.


As for me; I think I'm going to build a small cedar box near my outlet and plug in a portable XM station and a small Sonic Impact amp, along with some Mirage outdoors.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/sonicimpact/t.html
http://www.tweeter.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2475591&cp=1303927.1999265&parentPage=family

Chad

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« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 07:52:24 am by WHY_NOT »





drewstar

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2007, 09:16:36 am »
sigh.

Most of the Bose bashing I hear is around  thier suround  system, which I feel is a different horse than  talking about an outdoor 2 speaker system,  and I always enjoy the Kloss-Wave debates.  (don't get me started)

Anyhow, for a pair of OUTDOOR stereo speakers  Listen to the 251's.  Decide for yourself.   Ideally listen outside. If someone bashes bose, try to find out what series they're talking about.  I doubt it's the 251 .  ::)

 The omni v's intrigue me, as it looks like they are trying to adress the low end frequencies that usually is an issue with outdoor speakers.

Regardless of what brand you go with,  don't overlook where they are mounted. You're going to get a significant difference in sound quality if you mount the speakers against the house, rather than say on a fence railing or post. The bass reflected off the house makes a significant difference.

Also, as I mentioned earler, if you want to enjoy the speakers while in the tub, you're going to need to turn them up a bit to overcome the sound of the pumps and water. For the best sound while in the tub, they should be close to the tub, and angled towards the seating area, this may prove to be a challange if you're thinking on using the speakers for double duty; listening while the tub, but also for use while just outside; cook outs and what not.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 02:13:55 pm by drewstar »
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ZzTop

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2007, 05:26:19 pm »
Quote
For you Bose guys, I know you love your speakers and they are very pleasant sounding. lol....now  don't pick up any rocks to chuck at me but if you happen to know any audio guys ask them about the saying no highs and no lows than they must be Bose.... ;)......They are very warm and nice sounding but do not have the dynamic range of say a Klipsch but if you like the sound than thats what matters if you get a chance to a/b them sometime do a blind test and just listen and see what you pick..... :)


Bose are the most over hyped, over priced speakers out there.  Bose spends huge amounts of money to advertise and very little into quality sound.  They have been known to use cheap paper cone speakers with foam surrounds that do not stand up to the test of time never mind poor sound quality with a narrow reproduction range.

People who do not have trained audiophile ears are sucked in by Bose advertising and Women like their small foot print, but I must remind you that no three to four inch speaker can reproduce a full range sound.

In recent years we have suffered from the dumbing down of sound quality, ie MP3 which has one tenth the sampling rate of a CD, which sounds fine with ear buds, but a lot of the sound is missing when one listens on a good sound system.  Incredibly XM and Sirus digital radio delivers narrow compressed sound, like MP3, so much for faithful high fidelity sound reproduction.  Todays digital technology can deliver high quality sound, ie dolby true sound, HD sound, but manufactures are too busy trying to separate us from our money and maximize profits over delivering quality uncompressed sound.

The statement "No highs no lows, must be Bose", is no understatement.

It amazes me how many people will choose style over Sound and Build quality.

You can do much better for good Sound and Quality build, ie Klipsch, Paradigm, Mirage, Polk.

Sorry for the rant;

Regards, Zz
« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 01:05:31 pm by ZzTop »

Vinny

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2007, 09:57:02 pm »
My Polks are in a box in the basement and I haven't really had a great sounding (ok a good sounding) system in years. My BIC's are good enough as unfortunately music isn't a priority in my household anymore.

I come from the era where speakers needed to be fairly large to sound decent. I am surprised at how well some little speakers sound as my polks were middle size but as I said at 47 my hearing is not what it used to be and I'm sure most 40 somethings have some hearing loss (frequency related). I also am a believer of a graphic equalizer to taylor the sound of the system. I was amazed that it made such a difference in the sound coming from the speakers ... I would equilize them for a "flat" response with a pink noise generator and the Polks sounded awsome ... I miss the good old days. The graphic equilazer has 4 memory slots on it to get 4 different sounds. My Yamaha receiver does NOT accept the equilizer (I may have figured a way) and I agree with ZZ as far as the state of music with MP3, WMA and satillite radio. I was looking into a satillite radio system and I thought it would be CD quality but unfortunately it's not, personally if I had $1500 set of speakers and had crap going in ... crap would be coming out and I would be upset.

Over the years, I've heard a few impressive home speakers - Infinity, B&W, Kef, Polk and a few others. I wanted to buy the Polk floor standing speakers back when I bought mine but unfortunately my wife nixed it - probably for the best. I'm not in the music business nor do I have the money for those types of speakers ... it's more of background music.

Outdoor listening is probably background listening at it's best. Speakers are't going to give the 20 to 20Khz frequency response and that airplane, dog barking, kids screaming or hot tub on will cut the sound even more.

My advice is to buy what sounds good enough for you - spending $2000 or $20 doesn't matter, IF you like the sound buy the speaker. My $10 speakers may be considered junk to an audiophile ( I was one once) but when I'm sitting outside and have a beer and watching the kids in the pool I'm not absorbed in the music ... the days of smoking doobies and listening to the music is LONG GONE! ;) ;D

Gomboman

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2007, 10:18:02 pm »
Vinny, did you inhale?  :)
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I want to get in the spa business so I can surf the internet and use Photoshop all day long.

Larry Becker

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2007, 12:43:35 am »
I would think a sound system for outside would be vastly different than inside. In my living room I have a full 7.1 Energy Veritas speaker setup with an energy 1500 watt sub, all powered by a Pioneer Elite 59Txi receiver. The receiver actually has a microphone that it usess to automatically balance the sound field. It is really fun for movies and dvd-audio discs and HD-tv.

But do I want/need this outside? Not at all. I got a Dolphin waterproof universal remote for my D1 Sarena Bay. It controls the spa functions AND it can be programmed to control an audio system. My intention is to get an inexpensive receiver and some outdoor speakers -- maybe the Bose 251's mentioned earlier, or the larger Yamaha outdoor speakers, or the Mirage outdoor speakers (marketed by the same people that sell my Energy Veritas speakers), and I'll look into the Wave Audio speakers mentioned as well...).

I have VERY picky ears (more a curse than a blessing sometimes), but outside, here in LA, with the neighbor's dogs barking, the planes from LAX flying overhead, the sirens going off -- not to mention the noise of the spa! -- the outdoor speakers will be fine for me, I think.

Larry
2005 D-1 Sarena Bay

Chas

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2007, 01:25:27 am »
ZZ said, "In recent years we have suffered from the dumbing down of sound quality, ie MP3 which has one tenth the sampling rate of a CD, which sounds fine with ear buds, but a lot of the sound is missing when one listens on a good sound system.  Incredibly XM and Sirus digital radio delivers narrow compressed sound, like MP3, so much for faithful high fidelity sound reproduction.  Todays digital technology can deliver high quality sound, ie dolby true sound, HD sound, but manufactures are too busy trying to separate us from our money and maximize profits over delivering quality uncompressed sound."

I agree. I just got my first iPod Nano. I call it my "Nono" because it has no quality. I can't believe Apple is going to help me retire by selling these things - who in their right mind can listen to that garbage? I spent one whole day importing my rather sizable CD library, and in the ear buds it was so-so. I took it out on the boat - but I had to connect via a Cassette Adapter, so I figured the crummy sound was due to that and the medium-quality marine speakers.

But I brought it along for this trip to San Francisco I am on, and with my 'Mach' system in my Ford product car - not a bad system actually - I could just about have cried. It was OK if I was just covering up coversation or playing it for background noise, but I went back to the 6-disc CD changer as soon as I wanted to crank it up. I have downloaded my wife's language lessons onto it, and it is hers from this moment on. She is in the other room listening to it as I type this, and it's fine for the spoken word.

I don't even want to think about what it would do to a fine-sounding system like Sundance has, much less the new all-digital Spaudio II system in a HotSpring.

Wow. Sorry for the rant, but I really like clean audio - I agree with the posts above that you need to get what sounds good to you, and that may not be what sounds good to me, but I just can't get over how really BAD Mp3 has turned out to be.

 8-)
Former HotSpring Dealer - Southern Cal.

drewstar

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2007, 12:29:06 pm »
Arrrgh....over lunch trying to correct my spelling, I hit the delete post. Sorry to bump this to the top. It wasn't intended.


Paper cones? It's not really the material, but the coils, magnets and spacing than the cone media. You can get great sound off a paper cone. I think it's a non issue.  What happend to the mantra "how it sounds?". Oh, we toss that out, if someone says, the Bose bookshelves sound better than just two others speakers of the same size.
 Oh...they have paper cones you know.... Grin
 
As far as the price? Yup.  Bose is expsensive.    
 
I think were Bose really offers a great product is maximizing sound, with minimal space.  That's the whole theroy behind their surround sound systems.  I don't want to get into suround sound here, but iIdo   apprecaiate some one who is trying to get a fuller,  richer sound for thier TV with a minimal foot print and stylish looks.  
 
 
 Women like thier small foot print?  I'm not sure how to take that...It strikes me  as odd.  
 
I think alot of auddioiphiles get tripped up that they refuse to accept that someone wants to put something small, and stylish in the home, without a lot of wires and such.  The sound quality is good enough for many many people.  (Now they turn to the price arguement). It's not so much about the price...I dont want a f#king sub woofer in my darn living room.  I don't want friggin tower speakers that look like I am living in a dorm. I don't want to run wires to 5 speakers all over th room.  I want 2 small stylish speakers that by themselves can provide a full rich sound.  
 
If your'e looking for a minial speaker system and want to have a full rich sound, bose has some products for you.They're able to provide a richer fuller sound from smaller boxes. True, the lows and highs are cut, but overall
as i said, for someone who wants to put up two speakers and wants decent sound, the Bose products fit the bill for a lot of people. They "screw" with the acosutics but it gives and illusion of a larger system. In the right application, it fits nicely. Price? Eh.  
 
Sometimes I think some  "adiophiles" are worse than wine snobs.  They don't see the whole picture. On the other side of the coin, folks who bought bose thinking they are the top end sound wise , are ignorant or fooling themselves.   But the whole "Bose Sucks" mantra that has come into style I see is not fully understood by many folks, and in many cases misused. But hey, dising the #1 maker of speakers lets others know you're ultra cool.  Wink  I want somehting nice in my living room. I don't care if you think I spent and extra $100.  I really don't.  
 
Anyhow as far outdoor sound, Larry has hit the nail on the head.
 
I think with all the conventional small drivers mounted to a single plane, are going to let you down in some area.  
 
 But yea, sitting outside having a beer, with some tunes,   I think I could sell  you on the 251s.  
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ZzTop

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2007, 01:23:25 pm »
Quote
Arrrgh....over lunch trying to correct my spelling, I hit the delete post. Sorry to bump this to the top. It wasn't intended.


Paper cones? It's not really the material, but the coils, magnets and spacing than the cone media. You can get great sound off a paper cone. I think it's a non issue.  What happend to the mantra "how it sounds?". Oh, we toss that out, if someone says, the Bose bookshelves sound better than just two others speakers of the same size.
 Oh...they have paper cones you know.... Grin
 
As far as the price? Yup.  Bose is expsensive.    
 
I think were Bose really offers a great product is maximizing sound, with minimal space.  That's the whole theroy behind their surround sound systems.  I don't want to get into suround sound here, but iIdo   apprecaiate some one who is trying to get a fuller,  richer sound for thier TV with a minimal foot print and stylish looks.  
 
 
 Women like thier small foot print?  I'm not sure how to take that...It strikes me  as odd.  
 
I think alot of auddioiphiles get tripped up that they refuse to accept that someone wants to put something small, and stylish in the home, without a lot of wires and such.  The sound quality is good enough for many many people.  (Now they turn to the price arguement). It's not so much about the price...I dont want a f#king sub woofer in my darn living room.  I don't want friggin tower speakers that look like I am living in a dorm. I don't want to run wires to 5 speakers all over th room.  I want 2 small stylish speakers that by themselves can provide a full rich sound.  
 
If your'e looking for a minial speaker system and want to have a full rich sound, bose has some products for you.They're able to provide a richer fuller sound from smaller boxes. True, the lows and highs are cut, but overall
as i said, for someone who wants to put up two speakers and wants decent sound, the Bose products fit the bill for a lot of people. They "screw" with the acosutics but it gives and illusion of a larger system. In the right application, it fits nicely. Price? Eh.  
 
Sometimes I think some  "adiophiles" are worse than wine snobs.  They don't see the whole picture. On the other side of the coin, folks who bought bose thinking they are the top end sound wise , are ignorant or fooling themselves.   But the whole "Bose Sucks" mantra that has come into style I see is not fully understood by many folks, and in many cases misused. But hey, dising the #1 maker of speakers lets others know you're ultra cool.  Wink  I want somehting nice in my living room. I don't care if you think I spent and extra $100.  I really don't.  
 
Anyhow as far outdoor sound, Larry has hit the nail on the head.
 
I think with all the conventional small drivers mounted to a single plane, are going to let you down in some area.  
 
 But yea, sitting outside having a beer, with some tunes,   I think I could sell  you on the 251s.  


Drewstar buddy,

Bose flagship speaker, the 901's have 9 -  4" speakers with paper cones and foam surrounds,  Owners have suffered the fate of having the foam turn to dust  within five years of use, requiring every speaker to have new foam surrounds installed .
When you buy a speaker you expect it to last 10 - 15 years  or more without material failure, especially at the nose bleed prices Bose charges.

There are lots of mid range speakers out there that will do the job without breaking the bank which have rubber surrounds and quality build..

My interest is getting the best quality sounding speakers at the best price and I don't see Bose meeting that criteria.

Monster cables are another Company that is really big on advertising which results in an extremely overpriced product.  ie 6' HDMI cables costing $100 cdn compared to www.monoprice selling for $5.00 usd.  What is the difference, Advertising, packaging and markup!

The only way a small footprint speaker can achieve a full range is by being supplimenting them with a sub woofer.

I concede the fact the market is fixated on small foot print and fewer wires, however rear speakers that are wireless, using infrared technology give a very compromised sound.  Poor sound quality, narrow range, and no dynamics, very poor bass performance,  is the price you pay.

Perhaps what you do not hear you do not miss, however once you know what you are missing that is not so easy.  Of course if the speakers are just for back ground elevator music I guess it does not matter.

In places where there is lots of ambient noice, kids, traffic, pump noise, wind etc it is even more important that the sound resolution of the speaker is good.

As many have stated it all has to do with how educated your ear is.  The more you listen to a good speaker system, the more difficult it is to go back to an inferior sound.  The difference between a transister radio and a stereo or surround system.

I often wonder how our kids hearing is being impaired by listening to close coupled earphones for long periods of time  at high volume on ipods which have the potential to do long term damage to their hearing, especially in the higher frequency ranges.

This is not an argument, just a discussion, and I certainly respect your opionion.

Regards, Zz


« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 01:52:22 pm by ZzTop »

Larry Becker

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2007, 01:40:59 pm »
So... back to spa audio systems...

I live in a suburb in LA (Hawthorne) and my neighbors are really close to me (proximity wise, anyway). Some I know pretty well, others not so much. I really don't hear any of them playing music in their back yards, and I'm QUITE SURE they wouldn't appreciate me playing a lot of loud music in my spa. I even feel guilty when my spa goes into its automatic filtering mode for an hour at night (1 am right now). So, in my situation I'm envisioning really limited use out of an outdoor music system.

One of my favorite times to hit the spa is when I'm done with meetings and reading tv and so on -- often between 11 pm and midnight is when I get in. I'm sure I couldn't use music then without disturbing someone.

Anyone else live in close quarters and use music much?

Larry

(PS - I agree that the whole mp3 thing is awful. The ONLY thing it does for people is make their music easily accessable (IMHO). When I do download mp3's to my pocket pc/phone, I sample at the highest rate I can and use a big memory card to hold the music. It makes me sad that the whole mp3 craze pretty much killed multi-channel DVD-Audio and SACD discs. Although I just bought a new one last week -- the new Beatles LOVE cd/dvd-audio disc.  8-) )
« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 01:54:50 pm by Larry_Becker »
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drewstar

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Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2007, 01:53:43 pm »
Quote


Drewstar buddy,

Bose flagship speaker, the 901's have 9 -  4" speakers with paper cones and foam surrounds,  Owners have suffered the fate of having the foam turn to dust  within five years of use, requiring every speaker to have new foam surrounds installed .
When you buy a speaker you expect it to last 10 - 15 years  or more without material failure, especially at the nose bleed prices Bose charges.

There are lots of mid range speakers out there that will do the job without breaking the bank which have rubber surrounds and quality build..

My interest is getting the best quality sounding speakers at the best price and I don't see Bose meeting that criteria.

Monster cables are another Company that is really big on advertising which results in an extremely overpriced product.  ie 6' HDMI cables costing $100 cdn compared to www.monoprice selling for $5.00 usd.  What is the difference, Advertising and markup!

The only way a small footprint speaker can achieve a full range is by being supplimenting them with a sub woofer.

I concede the fact the market is fixated on small foot print and fewer wires, however rear speakers that are wireless, using infrared technology give a very compromised sound.  Poor sound quality is the price you pay.

Perhaps what you do not hear you do not miss, however once you know what you are missing that is not so easy.  Of course if the speakers are just for back ground elevator music I guess it does not matter.

In places where there is lots of ambient noice, kids, traffic, pump noise, wind etc it is even more important that the sound resolution of the speaker is good.

As many have stated it all has to do with how educated your ear is.  The more you listen to a good speaker system, the more difficult it is to go back to an inferior sound.  The difference between a transister radio and a stereo or surround system.

This is not an argument, just a discussion, and I certainly respect your opionion.

Regards, Zz



Well were all over the place here. What started out as speakers for outdoors is now morphed into a psuedo audiophile debate....arrrgh.


Anyhow,  the 901's are really considered the flagship of Bose, and you can find some after 30 years still available and for sale.  Go ahead and trash em.  I understand were you are comming from now.  After all,  BOSE sucks, right?  

But I'm not here to defend the whole Bose product line.  


Yes, a small footprint cabinet/speaker can't achieve low frequiencies. That's exactly my point. So what are you going to do?  You can go with a subwoofer, or stay with thin tinny sounds or go with the bose.

Go sit on your deck with your 2 bookshelf polks, Hey, they're thin and shallow, but hey, that's what you get without a sub.    I'll listen to the bose.  BecauseI don't care what the a-philes say.  ;)

I need to go write my dad and tell him the wave cd player in his office sucks. It doesn't sound as good as he thinks. (What a fool!).

 Bose is able to give the illuison and sense of a larger system via postioning the driver  and wave ports. It works pretty damn good, and in some circumstances, it's a great choice.  Is it true, full  fideltity ? No.  But we've been around that.

Ahhh. Never mind....we're going around in cirles.

07 Caldera Geneva

Hot Tub Forum

Re: Recommendations for DIY stereo systems
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2007, 01:53:43 pm »

 

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