All Wet and Confused

[SpaNE]

The general advice on this forum is to always wet test.  Well, I went for a wet test yesterday and it only left me wet and confused. :-/

Background:  I am looking for a spa approximately 7' x 7' for 5-6 people.  No huge Maxxus for me - actually the smaller the bester IF it meets my needs.  I want a reliable model from a well respected long term manufacturer with good dealer support.  Price is very flexible - I could spend $10K or more, however, would love to spend much less if possible.  Spa to be used by wife and I, plus 2 kids age 10 and 15 - probably friends and family from time to time.  Undecided on a lounger but like the idea.  Absolutely love "bell and whistles" like waterfalls, lights, etc.

The largest dealer in my area caries both HotSprings and Sundance - so I took a dip in the Envoy and the Optima.  The dealer told me that these were his two top selling models.  My impressions...

HotSpring Envoy.  LOVED the variety of jets and getting a different massage from seat to seat - Moto DX, Soothing Seven, Rotary Hydromassage, etc.  Lounger fit very nice - I could imagine leaning back and enjoying watching the stars at night from this seat.  However, the Moto-massage suffers from the inability to adjust the speed of the jets going up and down your back.  IMO it moved too fast and I thought it would be great to slow it down like a real massage.  Overall a bit of a disappointment (but it did give a very nice neck massage).  The absolute BEST jet was the rotary hydro, however, this jet was not in one of the comfortable contoured corner seats (why not?).  There was no easy positon for entry and no cool down seat.  The Vanguard had the cool down seat, however, it "wasted" 2 premier positons to the moto that I was slightly disappointed in.  IMO, the BellaFontana is ok, the Soothing Stream isn't even a real water feature.  Overall a very nice spa but full of compromises for $10K.

Sundance Optima.  Loved the 4 comfortable corner seats and the cool down seat.  Loved the adjustability of all the jets with convenient controls.  However, every seat seemed the SAME - there is very little variety between all the seats and jets.  The HotSpring seemed much better in this regard.  I had mixed feelings on the footdome - seems like a good idea for leverage, however, every seat gets the same foot jet pressure because it is not variable from seat to seat.  Loved the AquaTerrace water feature - very nicely designed and implemented.  Unfortunately he did not have one of the lounger models to wet test like the Cameo or the Altamar.  Overall a very nice spa but full  of compromises for $10K.

Sadly I didn't get to test any of the audio systems, however, I am a bit of an audiofile so I doubt I would be too impressed with these features.  Please let me know if I am missing something here.

Overall - I still have no idea what spa is best for me.  Any and all suggestions would be welcome.  

Almost forgot - this seems like a great forum with a lot of good advice and mature posters.

[tileman]

  Welcome to the land of spatopia.

  It seems to me like you have things pretty much under control. Just keep wet testing all the major manufacturers' spas in your area until one stands out amongst the others.  Having the flexibility of no price limit takes away alot of headaches. Most are not as fortunate. Enjoy all the wet tests and keep us posted on how things are going.
  Tileman

[Richs100]

Hi SpaNE

Sounds like you have been busy!  I can't comment on the Sundance models, however, I just purchased an Envoy which was delivered a week ago. I think your wet test was right on target with the Envoy.  The entry/exit issue and the lack of a cool down seat are the two things I first noticed also.  However, although I am only a week into the new tub, I am becoming more comfortable getting into and out of the tub by way of the lounger.  I just step into the "seat" of the lounger.  Interestingly, the lounger also is serving as my cool down seat.  I just sit on the raised knee portion of the lounger with one 'cheek' on each side    Plus, I find the rear deck area of the tub to be plenty wide to sit up on to cool off.

Although I have positioned my spa in such a way that I can't do this, when I saw the Envoy at the dealer, he was using two sets of steps.  One was in front at the lounger, and the second on the right side of the tub.  That way you could step into the seat next to the lounger which is easier than stepping into the lounger.

On the music end, I purchased the Spaudio II system.  I am a big time music lover and I am enthralled with the system.  I find that the external pair of speakers set very low and used in conjuction with the transducers in the tub, give me great sound.  (I listen to mostly popular, rock&roll, dance type music)  Also, when I have had people over and we have been talking in the tub, the music is not overpowering at all.  It's just kinda there, coming out of the water in the tub.  VERY UNIQUE.  I realize it is an expensive option (I think I paid about $1,800 for it) but I love it and do not regret it one bit. Plus, you get the IQ remote with the system which controls both the tub functions and the Spaudio.

I definately agree with you regarding the variety of seats in the Envoy.  I've spent the last week bouncing around the tub and still am not certain which one is my favorite!  The lounger and the two corner seats are completely different from each other, and all three have great foot jet action.

I just thought I would give you a newbies' impressions of the Envoy.  Hope it helps in your ultimate decision.
Good Luck

[patty]

Funny what you said about the moto-massage jets!   A lot of folks love them, but I thought the exact same thing:  waaaaaay too fast for me.   Also, I have to say that I agree w/ lack of variety in the Optima jets.  But we bought it anyway!!!  That was the only "con" on my list.   That said, after having owned it for several months I do not have jet regret...  there  plenty of foot, calf, lower/mid/upper back, shoulder and neck jets.  For the parts where this is no specific jet (hand/wrist) there is usually an empty jet within reaching distance.

We started off in the same boat.. not having a solid budget.. not knowing what features we wanted.. lounger/no lounger... etc.   As we wet tested a number of spas our likes/dislikes became clear.  My advice to you would be to do the same: look at and test drive as many as you can.  We looked at Hot Spring, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Arctic (IMO the best variety of all we tested), Caldera, D1, and few others.  Beachcomber, Artesian and Marquis we also on our "must see" list, but there were no dealers in our area.   Once we were clear we even went back and re-wet tested a few of the earlier brands.     Good luck.

[hot tub Frank]

DO not get hang up with the amount of jets a spa has.
the most important thing for me is for  mostly that the seats and or the lounger are compfy. If you want all the bells and whistles you probaly have to go with a higher priced model.

keep wet testing and ask questions here on the forum.
Each dealer will tell you that he has the best spa.

soon you will be in spatopia like everybody else here.

keep us posted

[Gomboman]

SpaNE, it sounds like you're on the right track. Just be thankful you wet tested. Can you imagine the feeling of disappointment you would have had using the spa for the first time after spending 10K?

The Optima and Envoy are very nice spas. Those were actually my first two picks. You might get used to the DX Moto Massage. I have one and rarely leave it for another seat. If you like variety you might want to look at the Marquis Epic. Also, the Caldera Geneva/Tahitian are pretty nice if you like a lounger.

[Bonibelle]

Do you have a Marquis dealer near by? If so, take a look at the Epic, I think it may fit your needs. I have a friend who is seriously looking for a tub and as I have been telling her things to look for,  they are the things I love about my tub. It is large enough for my family of 4 (teenagers, 14 and 15). And there is still room if we wanted to invite others. It has 2 cool down seats and easy access getting in and out. The lounge is great with neck, thigh, calf and foot jets as well as a full complement of back jets. The deep therapy seat is my favorite. It has back, neck and shoulder jets, as well as foot jets. Additionally there are two therapy pillars for concentrated massage.

It has all the bells and whistles, including an in home monitor and a remote in the tub.  The Soundsations sound system is really fantastic and it includes the Dolphin remote that controls the sound system and all the tub functions.  The waterfall is topped with a serving tray for drinks.

Wow I really do love my tub!....

[jcmsrv]

Hi Spa NE,

I do not know where you are in NE, but if you can check-out Crocker Sales in Woburn mass  they have a couple line of top end tubs and are super easy to deal with. I bought a Piper Glen from them about 2 years ago and still love the tub and their servies is great We are located in Dracut, MA

Good luck

john mcdonough
jcmsrv@yahoo.com

[mkotubs]

I have a 2 month old HS Vista, which is a little bigger than the Envoy.  I had the same impression on sundance as well.   I liked the D1 and Coleman tubs.
The two D1 dealers near my home made me walk away.  And my wife didn't care for the Coleman headrest, otherwise it would have been the tub.

Keep wet testing you'll find the right tub.  I wet tested the HS 4 different times basically on the same days I tested other brand.  That help me decide on the best tub.  Didn't make the wife and kids happy going back to the same dealer

[Silent Water]

Hi, SpaNE.
Glad that you chimed in!  You do sound like you have a good handle on what's important to you.  Hang onto that and you won't go wrong.

This may sound very patronizing (since all you're getting is text) but I certainly don't mean it that way.  Not long after you buy your tub, you will forget all about all the important criteria you used to judge tubs while testing and you will focus on one thing: DOES IT MAKE ME FEEL GOOD?  It sounds too overly-simplistic to be true but that's really the measure of the tub that's right for you. I know that you're looking for "toys" and since they're important to you, by all means get 'em!  Like Frank says though, expect to pay for them too!

My only advice is don't get too distracted by these extras. I'd suggest wet-testing the tubs on your short list without all the gismos going.  I absolutely guarantee that there will come a night when you want to shut off all the lights, jets, waterfalls, etc. and just look at the stars.  COMFORT should be your priority.  

Here are some things that my family discovered while wet-testing and after delivery:
1) Tubs with variable height seating are definitely more versatile. That cool-down seat is a wonderful thing - especially if you have kids.
2) Do not underestimate the therapy of footjets. I never expected to like them, but I often now leave these on long after I've turned off the back jets.
3) A foot dome is essential for those times when you want a really deep back massage. Crank those jets to that level of intensity and you need to be anchored or you'll be blown out of your seat!
4) After only one month, we find that the tub is used more and more for quiet soaking.  It's just way more relaxing for us to switch off all the lights, pumps and music and let the warm water do its work.

Have fun testing and don't rush it.  I've no doubt that when you find the tub that fits you best, you'll know it!  I just hope that you tell us when it happens.
Good luck!

[D.P. Roberts]

I have to agree with all the other posters so far- you'll know the right tub after you soak in it. Personally, I had a Sundance for many years, and really liked it. If you're thinking of a lounger, you might look at the Sundance Cameo- it has a greater variety of seats than the Optima, so you might like that too.
Others have mentioned Artesian and Caldera- aside from Hot Springs and Sundance (which you've already tried), those are two of the better reviewed brands here- especially the Artesian "Platinum" series and the Caldera "Utopia" series (since you mentioned that budget isn't too much of an issue). Artesian's seats (in the Platinum series) each have their own dedicated pump, so they're very adjustable to exactly what you want. Caldera's seats are often dedicated to a particular area of the body (lumbar, upper back, legs, etc.), which you might like as well. If I were you, those would be next on my list.

As for the "bells and whistles"- if you read through a lot of reviews here, you'll find that many of the extras (stereos, TVs, waterfalls, etc.) don't get used after a while. Furthermore, they seem to be the first things to break in your tub, leading to annoying service calls. I'll echo the PP in stating that great foot jets are a must- we've found that our legs & feet are often much more sore than we realized. A "volcano" type jet (pointing upwards in the middle of the tub) is great for getting the sides of your legs, feet, & other parts that in-wall  jets just don't reach very well.

[Spiderman]

You might get used to the DX Moto Massage. I have one and rarely leave it for another seat.  

I'll second that.  My wife didn't seem to care about it when we got the tub, but now that we've had it for awhile, the fists are starting to fly over who gets it!      It seems from everyone here, as far as moto goes, people either love it or hate it.  Good luck in your quest.

[H823Putt]

If you have a Caldera(same manufact as Hot Spring) dealer around, check out the Aspire. I wet tested with my wife and 3 kids(ages 6,9 & 12). We were surprised we had plenty of room for a 7 X 7 tub. We were looking for one with all the bells and whistles. It comes with the Spa-glo lighting(inside and out), stereo and an ajustable waterfall. I have not bought it yet but will in a couple of months.

[bosco0633]

dont force yourself into a particular brand, I would suggest to you to try a couple of other brands.  This  may make you like a different tub, or make you like the tub you originally tried.  You are deffinitely doing the right thing.  I do not believe that purchasing a tub is a split second decision.  You have so many factors to consider.  Appeal, what options to get, feel, dealer reliability, manufacturer reputation etc etc etc.  Keep looking and learning, and it will make your decision so much better.

Not to be the arctic pusher, but if you are looking for a smaller tub check out the arctic fox.  It is a beautiful tub and is 7x6.  There are different models to choose from with this brand.

[SpaNE]

Thanks for all the great comments and suggestions so far.  Looks like I came to the right place for information.

I think my next step will be to wet test some of the spas recommended like the Caldera, D1, Marquis, etc.  Unfortunately it looks like buying a spa will be far more difficult that I anticipated - I was sooooo hoping that the HotSpring or Sundance would be perfect for me.  Many of the dealers for these other spas are far away and most only have 1 or 2 models to wet test.

Reminds me of the recent expreience I had buying equipment for my home theater.  The recommendation from the forums was to listen and demo as many projectors and speakers as you can to find out exactly what you want.  While this is great advice (and exactly what I did) it does takes a lot of time and energy.  Additionally there are very few dealers that have the equipment you want set up in a proper environment for auditioning.  

I often envy people who can make quick decisons - and be happy.