Master Spa Shows in the News!

[windsurfdog]

OK, let me begin by repeating that I am a happy MS owner who bought from one of many respected, hard working MS retailers--just like the HS, SD, Marquis, et al dealers that frequent this site.  I do not like deceptive advertising.  Deceptive advertising is in the eye of the beholder especially depending just how deceptive it is/may be.  This doesn't mean that I feel every MS retailer is fair and above board just as I feel no other manufacturer can guarantee that all of their dealers are pristine.

I did not like this local, isolated news clip for a several reasons:

1.  I do feel like the printed ad that was shown COULD make people wrongly think that there were 15 spa manufacturers at the show yet the poster clearly says that this is a "SPA, POOL and PATIO SHOW".  It also lists these products available: spas, swimspas, gazebos, decking and pools.  Is it so unreasonable to think that 15 manufacturers of spa, pool and patio equipment would be represented at the show?  Of course the "MASSIVE SPA EVENT" COULD lead one to conclude that more than one spa manufacturer was represented yet nowhere does it say more than one spa manufacturer would be present.  Deceptive?  Eye of the beholder.  All I am doing is reading what they had printed without injecting emotion...the "Fighting for You" news team did a good job of evoking emotion for their purposes.  Once again, please read my first sentence in this paragraph before the flaming begins...especially the "COULD" part.

2.  The woman bought her spa "a few years ago" at a show "much like the spa, pool and patio show......"  So this team of "crack" reporters couldn't find anyone who purchased a spa at this show?  This station brings out the worst in local reporting just as this retailer "seems" to bring out the worst in retailing.  This is sensationalism at best.  I doubt this woman could remember any details from her spa buying experience from "a few years ago".  She didn't say anything about the price of her spa...she even said she thought she got a good deal...but NEVER did she say anything negative about her deal.  She never said that she was unhappy with the spa.  It was only later when someone told her that there was only one spa manufacturer there and then she felt like "ok, I guess they got me".

3.  They did a real good job of showing that spa at its worst.  Whoever "cleans and sanitizes" this tub should have their spa operators license revoked.  Or possibly the woman should be ashamed of letting the news crew suds her spa...who knows...

Do I feel this retailer was perfectly above board with his advertising?  No.  Was he perfectly honest, clear and concise?  No.  Was his advertising a lie?  No.

To be honest, I would probably read that ad and think there would be more than one manufacturer present but, after looking around just a bit, it wouldn't have been hard to figure out and I'm sure I would have been put off by the tactic...probably to the point of not wanting to do business with'em.  This only puts them in the gray area between being perfectly up-front and honest and being nothing but a liar, cheat and thief...and there's a lot of room for most advertisers right in there with'em.

Knock corporate MS if you think they should be concerned about this particular retailer but don't make the easy mistake of taking the low road and associating all MS retailers with this particular outfit.

[clover]

Unfortunately, PT Barnum was right.

"There is a sucker born every minute, and two to take his money".

MS tactics are specifically intended to take advantage of stupid people, excuse me, gullible people as they intentionally make "confusing and mis-leading mis-statements" that are outright deceitful lies.  It works very well for them.   Their methods have been endorsed and encouraged, as well as being, nutured, taught, trained and developed into a science applying pshycology to the way the human minds works.

In this case, it make thousands of dollars for some, tens's of thousands for others, and even millions for those closer to the top.  Why would they want to stop doing it?

Believe me, they know exactly what they are doing and they have become enviable experts at what they do, b/c they have been doing it blatantly now for more than 5 years.  Honest and reputable dealers in this industry have tried in vain to make a difference in their tactics for as many years now, but still, fools follow the "pied piper".  These fools seem to be skeptical and confused by the reputable dealers with good reputations, as they are "sold" by deceitful practices, believing in the lies they have been told.  But then who really cares, they bought a seemingly good product even if it was through deceitful practices, they seem to be happy with the product.  

This is not about their product, it is all about their marketing and that is better than their product.  They will continue to do what they do, it works very well for them, and it has become a tremendously profitable way of doing business.  

Lieing to people has become so much more acceptable today than ever before.  Even our courts say there is NO LAW against it.  It is just that the majority of us do not find it acceptable, but then do we always tell the truth when we talk.

"Make hay while the sun shines".

[stuart]

Here is more on Master for you....

I wrote a few months ago that I had some customers that I could not get taken care of by Master. One was a cracked spa that we sat on a return authorization four months without an answer from Master as to when it would ship. They authorized the replacement and then would not give us an answer for 4 months.

Finally the customer (a good friend of mine BTW) called very upset and asked what he did to hurt our friendship? Master spa called him and said that they would deliver the spa from their new store in the state because I had a problem with him and didn't want to deal with it! Can you imagine the tenacity? Month after month, call after call to take care of my friend and then they tried to put the blame on me! Lucky that we are good enough friends that he called me!

I've called an attorney but I don't know that it will be worth the letter... It won't change the sleazy way that they operate, they would consider it a trophy!

Say what you will about the product... I would hesitate to buy from any company that has been caught in blatant lies as much as them!

Nixon was a decent President but we impeached him for dishonesty!

My hope is that good customers, honest dealers and caring employees involved with Master don't get hurt by the companies integrity issues.

[Richs100]

Windsurfdog:
I am very happy that you love your tub.  I am also happy for you that you were smart enough to negotiate a good deal on it (I assume).

However, there is no doubt at this point that Master Spas has been running this sham show for years and it apparently is a very successful way for them to do business (because they keep doing it).  

I also am personally convinced that the highest levels of their corporate structure condones this kind of "sharp dealing".  The reporter in the story stated that while the PRESIDENT of Master Spa would not appear on camera, he stated that the company was contemplating a libel suit against the BBB.  He didn't deny, condemn or otherwise distance his company from these practices.  That alone tells me all I need to know about the Corporate structure of this organization.  (And yes, I feel very sorry for the honest dealers who have invested in a Master Spa dealership. It must be very frustrating for them)

One last point.  I sure would love to see Master Spa sue the BBB.  BUT I GUARANTEE THEY WILL NEVER DO THIS.  One can only imagine what a competent plaintiff's attorney or assistant attorney general could do if he or she had the opportunity to examine the company's corporate officers under oath.  If they sold tickets to that show, I'd buy one.

And Surfdog, please note that almost everyone on this thread is discussing Master Spa's sales and marketing methods only.  I don't think the issue is whether the spa itself is a good or bad spa.

Rich

[windsurfdog]

...However, there is no doubt at this point that Master Spas has been running this sham show for years and it apparently is a very successful way for them to do business (because they keep doing it).  

I also am personally convinced that the highest levels of their corporate structure condones this kind of "sharp dealing".  The reporter in the story stated that while the PRESIDENT of Master Spa would not appear on camera, he stated that the company was contemplating a libel suit against the BBB.  He didn't deny, condemn or otherwise distance his company from these practices.  That alone tells me all I need to know about the Corporate structure of this organization.  (And yes, I feel very sorry for the honest dealers who have invested in a Master Spa dealership. It must be very frustrating for them)

Rich, you are mistaken.  The talking head plainly said that he spoke to the president of "Master Pool and Spa", the local dealer, not MasterSpas corporate president.  I wish we could get the facts straight before going off on tangents like these.  Now stu made some factual points regarding corporate MS but nothing concerning corporate MS was mentioned by the sensationalists.  Please check it out yourself.

One last point.  I sure would love to see Master Spa sue the BBB.  BUT I GUARANTEE THEY WILL NEVER DO THIS.  One can only imagine what a competent plaintiff's attorney or assistant attorney general could do if he or she had the opportunity to examine the company's corporate officers under oath.  If they sold tickets to that show, I'd buy one.

Once again, check the facts.

And Surfdog, please note that almost everyone on this thread is discussing Master Spa's sales and marketing methods only.  I don't think the issue is whether the spa itself is a good or bad spa.

Please note that I did not once mention in my previous post anything regarding other posts that had comments about their product.  This isn't about the product and, in my opinion, it isn't about MS corporate...this is about this one dealer.  Before the flames continue, notice my last paragraph in my previous post re: corporate and other MS legitimate, respected dealers.

Let's deal with the facts of this sensationalism...don't read more into it than it already bears.

[drewstar]

Wind dog,

I too am glad you have a good tub and have had a good experince. I don't understand why you feel you need to come thier defense though? To me, I don't think it really has any reflection on you, and I'm glad you got one of the good dealers, and a decent tub. really.

But you can't deny that Master has a bad rep, for good reasons.

[Tatooed_Lady]

I was going to go to one of their shows a few months back, just to take a peek, but I was afraid they'd have guys in the bushes taking down license plate info and following me home.   I'm a delicate little flower, dangit, and it'd scare me straight outta gun cleaning night if someone banged on our door trying to replace the Grandee!  

[windsurfdog]

Wind dog,

I too am glad you have a good tub and have had a good experince. I don't understand why you feel you need to come thier defense though? To me, I don't think it really has any reflection on you, and I'm glad you got one of the good dealers, and a decent tub. really.

But you can't deny that Master has a bad rep, for good reasons.

Thanks for the kind words, Drew.  I just like to stick with the facts...that's all.  This is an isolated story about one dealer and most here have taken the opportunity to parlay it into an MS lynching.  Would I go out of my way if I didn't own and be very happy with my MS experience...probably not.  But I do have major problems with people who let emotions blur the facts...exactly what happens whenever MS hits the news.  If I were an MS stock holder, I would be upset by some of the stuff that is reported at this site and would want corporate to answer for it.  But, in the case of this post, the sensationalists are talking about ONE dealer...and look what some people posting here have turned that into.

And if I don't do it, who will?  

[drewstar]

Wind dog,

I too am glad you have a good tub and have had a good experince. I don't understand why you feel you need to come thier defense though? To me, I don't think it really has any reflection on you, and I'm glad you got one of the good dealers, and a decent tub. really.

But you can't deny that Master has a bad rep, for good reasons.

Thanks for the kind words, Drew.  I just like to stick with the facts...that's all.  This is an isolated story about one dealer and most here have taken the opportunity to parlay it into an MS lynching.  Would I go out of my way if I didn't own and be very happy with my MS experience...probably not.  But I do have major problems with people who let emotions blur the facts...exactly what happens whenever MS hits the news.  If I were an MS stock holder, I would be upset by some of the stuff that is reported at this site and would want corporate to answer for it.  But, in the case of this post, the sensationalists are talking about ONE dealer...and look what some people posting here have turned that into.

And if I don't do it, who will?  

Ahh, but we know, this isn't one dealer. These shows are all over the country. That's a fact. This is not an isolated inncident.

[jfish63]

The exact same ad for a spa show comes around twice a year in the lower Hudson Valley. The same dealer every year. The same story of 15 vendors. Just like WSD mentioned pool manufacturers 2, gazebo 2 or 3, patio furniture 3 or 4, umbrellas etc. in this dealers defense he did have 3 spa manufacturers there Master, Down East(still a master), and some soft side tubs. It was a little funny that the guy pushing Down east said the Master spas were over priced, and the guy pushing the master said the down east were a cheaper made model. They still wanted over 8000 for a Windsor SE.

[NE-Phil]

...And if I don't do it, who will?  

How about an actual Master Spa dealer? I don't think we've actually heard from one on this thead yet, have we?

Phil

[Richs100]

(Quote) Rich, you are mistaken.  The talking head plainly said that he spoke to the president of "Master Pool and Spa", the local dealer, not MasterSpas corporate president.  I wish we could get the facts straight before going off on tangents like these.  Now stu made some factual points regarding corporate MS but nothing concerning corporate MS was mentioned by the sensationalists.  Please check it out yourself. (Quote)

Moonsurfdog:
My bad.  I went back and listened to the report again and you are absolutely right that the reporter was talking about the President of the local dealer.  I am sorry.  However, this is not a new or isolated problem with Master Spa.  People all over the country are familiar with these phony spa shows.  

So, the question remains:  Where the heck is the President of Master Spas?  Why would he ever let this terrible PR situation blemish his company's reputation like this?  Could it be that he may be looking at the bottom line and sees that these shows sell spas, and at a good rate of return?  I don't know, but there must be a reason these shows continue.  What are your ideas?

[In_Too_Long]

This show basically has been roaming around the states for the past 3-4 years.
I've ran into it several times from Kansas City to  Ashtabula, OH. It's the same guy. The Master dealer in Twin Cities has a less than stellar reputation to start and he probably was copying the idea. When I was still in the Twin Cities, it united several of us dealers to basically promote against him.
This is the kind of stuff that gives this industry a black eye. The BBB has no teeth. Master spas a couple years ago actually had a website set up to look like a legitimate 3rd party, unbiased group. They sent their prospects there in which they saw that Masters spas was rated #1 in 23 out of 24 catergories, the 24th they were rated #2. Hot Springs was number #1 in that category (it was color choice when Hot springs only had 3 colors to choose from) But still they are able to sell hot tubs.

[windsurfdog]

Ahh, but we know, this isn't one dealer. These shows are all over the country. That's a fact. This is not an isolated inncident.

Yes, this isn't the first time that shows like this have been mentioned here.  My point is that this particular incident, the reporter's story, was not about anything other than this one isolated incident...that's all.  You contend that they are all over the country...well, it seems as if it occurs in more than one place but, like I've said time and time again, I've never seen this in my neck of the woods.  This still doesn't rule out MS corporate having knowledge or endorsing these shows yet it doesn't do more than implicate them.  If this is standard MS corporate advertising philosophy, why haven't I seen a show anywhere close to me?  Indeed I have a problem with this type of advertising--it certainly turns me off but I can see the continuum between pristine honesty and downright lying/cheating/robbery and this falls somewhere in the middle along with all other advertising.  Where it falls in the continuum is a matter of judgment.

[jfish63]

I do not know for sure that the corporate office knows about these shows, but the salesmen I talked to at one claimed to work ni the factory.