Different Chemical Obsevation

[In Canada eh]

Curious to know if anyone else sees the same thing as I do?

  I follow the Vermonter method of dichlor, MPS and our tub has ozone. the thing is, that while most of you here have issues with the pH dropping over time, I have never seen that.  Every time I test our water (taylor kit) I have low alkalinity and high pH.  I raise alkalinity back to around 100 and drop the pH back to about 7.2.  Then 3 or 4 days later the alkalinity is down to about 70 and the pH is up to 7.8 or 8.0.  I have tried to crash the pH to 6.5 and the raise both together as well as, adjusting alkalinity first followed by pH but the result is the same after 3 or 4 days.  Its not a big deal and I just deal with it , but it seems to be different then what you'all are experiencing.  Water out of the tap is about 6.8 and 80 just incase anyone thinks that may be the problem

   Curiuous to know if anybody else experiences the same thing :-?

[pg_rider]

I have the exact same problem -- high pH and low alk.  I have a hard time raising the alk (seems like a LOT of alk increaser to dump in) so I get it around 80-100 and it seems to stay there, dropping maybe to 80.  Conversely, pH likes to be around 7.8-8.0 so from time to time I'll drop it down close to 7.2 and then it'll slowly rise back up.  Don't know why, and at this point I don't care anymore.  I figure it's like dropping nukes -- close is good enough...  

[In Canada eh]

Thanks Paul, its nice to know its not just me  

I still wonder what is causing the pH to climb and the alk to drop.  Dichlor has a pH of 7 and I think MPS is also pretty much neutral.  Strange isn't it?

[tileman]

My alk is 100 out the tap while my ph is well over the 8.0 mark.
When I lowered the ph to 7.5 it brought  the alk down 10-20ppm as well.
So I ended up adding a little baking soda to get it back to 100ppm. This bs dose brought my ph back up a little(7.6-7.7) and it stayed like that for about 2 weeks. This week however my ph jumped to 7.9 and has been there for a couple of days. In the meantime my alk doesn't move. It's always 100ppm. I figured it was time to lower the ph, so I did to 7.5 again and now the alk has dropped to 80.
It's like playing cat and mouse.
I'm going to add a little baking soda again and see where it takes me. :-?

[tomsem]

I have about the same readings and routine as pg_rider.  High ph and low alk.  I dump lots of alk increaser in and seems to lock in pretty good.  I lower ph and it locks in pretty good too but will rise if anything. It doesn't sound like you are alone at all.  

[IDW]

Ph can raise by airating water.Alk drops by contacting acid(Usually from lowering PH with acid)

[anne]

Are you guys wth high pH measuring your pH after using the tub, and with jets/air blowers on? I know my pH tends to be higher then, because as IDW said, aeration raises pH.

Tileman, if you are at 7.5 and 80, I'd just leave things along for a few days. Didn't you say yourself that you were micromanaging a bit? Relax, step away from the tub.......

Vinny or Steve or the Good Doctor or someone else with a lot of experience said to make sure to NOT take measurements right after use, and to try to do it at the same time each day. Not that I always do exactly as advised, but if I had repeatedly high pH I'd take that into consideration.

[tileman]

Are you guys wth high pH measuring your pH after using the tub, and with jets/air blowers on? I know my pH tends to be higher then, because as IDW said, aeration raises pH.

Tileman, if you are at 7.5 and 80, I'd just leave things along for a few days. Didn't you say yourself that you were micromanaging a bit? Relax, step away from the tub.......

Vinny or Steve or the Good Doctor or someone else with a lot of experience said to make sure to NOT take measurements right after use, and to try to do it at the same time each day. Not that I always do exactly as advised, but if I had repeatedly high pH I'd take that into consideration.

I know, I know. I'm trying to do too much.
I just don't want my ph in 2 weeks to do the same thing and have my alk at 80 instead of 100 this time. I'll have to add (spa down) again to get ph back in line and then my alk will end up even lower.

[anne]

Are you guys wth high pH measuring your pH after using the tub, and with jets/air blowers on? I know my pH tends to be higher then, because as IDW said, aeration raises pH.

Tileman, if you are at 7.5 and 80, I'd just leave things along for a few days. Didn't you say yourself that you were micromanaging a bit? Relax, step away from the tub.......

Vinny or Steve or the Good Doctor or someone else with a lot of experience said to make sure to NOT take measurements right after use, and to try to do it at the same time each day. Not that I always do exactly as advised, but if I had repeatedly high pH I'd take that into consideration.

I know, I know. I'm trying to do too much.
I just don't want my ph in 2 weeks to do the same thing and have my alk at 80 instead of 100 this time. I'll have to add (spa down) again to get ph back in line and then my alk will end up even lower.

I, like you, was determined to keep my Alk up so that my pH would be more steady. I'd see an Alk of 80 and want it higher "just in case." But then you just find yourself continually adding stuff. I think everyone agrees that you have to get TA in line first, then pH, but Vinny gave me some advice months ago that changed my protocol. I cannot remember exactly how he put it, but basically, if your pH is OK, then dont worry so much about TA UNLESS pH is not ok, then you have to fix TA first.

So, I check my pH about 2x times per week. (Some would say that is too often....I know). If it is 7.2-7.6, I don't even CHECK TA. (Assuming that I got it between 80-120 before). If my pH starts to wander, *then* I check TA. If you dont check it, you cannot stress over it........  

[windsurfdog]

I still wonder what is causing the pH to climb and the alk to drop.  Dichlor has a pH of 7 and I think MPS is also pretty much neutral.  Strange isn't it?

Can-man, I don't think MPS is neutral at all....I believe it's pH is around 3-4 which makes your rising pH that much more difficult to understand.  Of course if you are using buffered MPS, then, yes, it is rather neutral.  If so, why not try unbuffered MPS?

[Silent Water]

Can-man, I don't think MPS is neutral at all....I believe it's pH is around 3-4

Gotta say that my own observations would back that up using just the test strips.  I've been lucky so far: after my first fill, I brought TA up to around 100 and got pH balanced right away.  Daily sanitizing hasn't affected either but I've shocked twice now with MPS, and both TA and pH took a noticeable dip both times (over 30 ppm for TA and pH slipped from 7.4 to 6..  I usually test about 12 hours after shocking before I rebalance just so my readings aren't out of whack.

Sorry for the segue, but how many of you with higher pH/TA find it necessary to use a stain and scale product? Should I need to use this regularly too if my numbers are in line - or is this more related to water hardness?

[windsurfdog]

Sorry for the segue, but how many of you with higher pH/TA find it necessary to use a stain and scale product? Should I need to use this regularly too if my numbers are in line - or is this more related to water hardness?

I think stain and scale would be necessary to deal with well/hard water as you relate.  Being on a municipal water supply, I've not found it necessary and have never used it.  For me, it would only add to TDS.

[In Canada eh]

Can-man, I don't think MPS is neutral at all....I believe it's pH is around 3-4 which makes your rising pH that much more difficult to understand.  Of course if you are using buffered MPS, then, yes, it is rather neutral.  If so, why not try unbuffered MPS?

Windsurfdog

   Yes it is a buffered MPS that I'm using, which I thought had a neutral pH.  I may give the unbuffered type a try, it may help to lower the pH from constantly rising. I had heard that airation can cause the pH to climg as Anne said and maybe thats the culprit.  Its just strange that most of you have a problem with low pH and myself and a few others have the opposite.  For what its worth I do test the water at a time when the tub has not been in use for a while, so thats not it either

                                                  Thanks to all