Symptoms?

[Silent Water]

For you parents out there: remember when you had your first baby and you were still getting used to the sounds s/he made?  Remember calling your mother with every "is this normal" question before you bothered the doctor?

Turns out that my new baby (my 2-day-old Bahia) is making some interesting noises and I wanted to run the symptoms by you experienced people before calling the dealer and looking like a first-class goof.

Symptoms:
[glow]1)[/glow] Tub seems to have trouble maintaining temp within about 2 degrees.  It's set at 102 and often drops to 100 within 15 minutes of having cover off.  Sometimes when cover is first removed, tub is holding 101 instead of 102. Heater light not on to indicate that the heater is trying to bring back up to temp.

[glow]2)[/glow]  Circ pump return line is blasting very hot water (almost scalding) into the tub along with sporatic big bubbles (as well as those little ones that I would expect from the ozonator).

[glow]3)[/glow]  With all pumps off (except circ) the tub makes loud gurgling noises like a coffee pot.

OK, Mom.  Does this mean I might have air in the circ pump hose or a gate valve partially closed?  Do these symptoms warrant a call to the spa doc?  I don't want to wait and have any damage done to my heater.

[pg_rider]

For you parents out there: remember when you had your first baby and you were still getting used to the sounds s/he made?  Remember calling your mother with every "is this normal" question before you bothered the doctor?

Turns out that my new baby (my 2-day-old Bahia) is making some interesting noises and I wanted to run the symptoms by you experienced people before calling the dealer and looking like a first-class goof.

Symptoms:
[glow]1)[/glow] Tub seems to have trouble maintaining temp within about 2 degrees.  It's set at 102 and often drops to 100 within 15 minutes of having cover off.  Sometimes when cover is first removed, tub is holding 101 instead of 102. Heater light not on to indicate that the heater is trying to bring back up to temp.

[glow]2)[/glow]  Circ pump return line is blasting very hot water (almost scalding) into the tub along with sporatic big bubbles (as well as those little ones that I would expect from the ozonator).

[glow]3)[/glow]  With all pumps off (except circ) the tub makes loud gurgling noises like a coffee pot.

OK, Mom.  Does this mean I might have air in the circ pump hose or a gate valve partially closed?  Do these symptoms warrant a call to the spa doc?  I don't want to wait and have any damage done to my heater.

For sure Symptom #1 is normal.  At least, I hope it is as my tub behaves the exact same way.  Temp when I get in is usually one degree below the set temp and QUICKLY drops another degree when I pull back the cover.  Then the heater kicks in and it'll take a good 6-10 minutes or so to return to the starting temp.  Rarely do I see my tub actually sitting at the set temp.

As for the other two symptoms, they sound a bit unusual.  My tub's circ pump makes more of a hum and I don't hear any water moving (in spite of seeing the little bubbles coming out of where the hot water comes out of).  And I've never seen any BIG bubbles come out of anywhere, including the jets.  I suppose you could have some air and it's just getting expelled.  If it keeps doing it after a couple days I'd put in a call and see what the dealer says.

[Brookenstein]

All babies are different, but here is my experience...

1.  HS tubs do not show actual temp, just set temp, so I'm not necessarily aware when I have dropped a degree or 2.  I believe (but haven't read my manual in a year) that the heater will come on when it drops 2 full degrees below set temp.

2.  I find the water to be perfect temp coming out, but I love super hot showers.  J thinks it is scalding and if the heater comes on when we are in the tub he can't have his feet anywhere near it.

3.  My ozone make a very loud humming noise.  When I have fresh water (and its been a while, so its hard to remember) the bubbles are bigger and gurglier.  It usually goes away on its own with 7-10 days.

We have lousy insurance, so I always wait to call the dr.

[In Canada eh]

 I suppose you could have some air and it's just getting expelled.  If it keeps doing it after a couple days I'd put in a call and see what the dealer says.

Silent Water,

   If you were to remove the filter that supplies your circ pump and put a garden hose down the pipe about 6 inches, then let it run for a couple of minutes it should force the air out of that line

                                               Enjoy your new tub

[George]

I wouldn't worry about the water temp fluctuating 2 degrees, but the other stuff does not sound normal.  I  would be worried you might blow out your heater.  It would not hurt to call the dealer and ask him what he thinks about it.  My tub has a 24 hour circ pump and makes hardly any noise. I have never had big bubbles come out of the ozone outlet only little tiny bubbles.  Maybe you do have an air lock or something and the heater is running with air in it, which is not good.

[Vinny]

The temp fluctuation may be normal. My tub starts off at 1º above set point and on a cold night soakng for about 45 min it's at 1º below setpoint, the heater indicator may or may not be on. Losing 2 º in 15 minutes isn't normal though unless your soaking in real frigid temps. Take a look at the temp sensor, I believe it's in the filter compartment (that seems to be where mine is) make sure nothing is obstructing it.

Gurgling - this is a sign of air trapped somewhere and it will eventually work it's way out. Artesian recommends running the therapy pumps to get the air out of the system. Check you manual, Sundance may also recommend it. Those big bubbles are a sign that some air did escape. Also try what In_Canada_eh said if you can get to the circ pump pipe ... mine has a grating over it. I was told by my dealer that if that doesn't work, loosen up the diverter vale on top of the tub. Apparently it'ss get rid of the air. BTW, new water looks and acts different than "old" water. In about a week all the bubbles may appear smaller.

Scalding water is your heater kicking in! If you feel this and the tub is below setpoint - the controller is doing what it is supposed to AND the heater is doing it's job too.

[Silent Water]

Maybe you do have an air lock or something and the heater is running with air in it, which is not good.

This was exactly my concern, George.  Sounds like consensus is some trapped air here.

remove the filter that supplies your circ pump and put a garden hose down the pipe about 6 inches, then let it run for a couple of minutes it should force the air out of that line

In_Canada_eh, I will try this first to see what happens.  Thanks.

loosen up the diverter vale on top of the tub

Vinny, if the hose down the pipe routine doesn't work, I'll give this a whirl.

Thanks, everyone!  I'll let you know how it goes.

[tony]

Gurgling and big bubbles mean air is trapped somewhere.  Try removing your filters and running your pumps without filters for a few minutes.  Make sure there is nothing in the spa that could be sucked into the plumbing.  Run all your pumps and move your diverters back and forth to all positions.  Be sure your spa is turned off when removing or replacing the filters.

[gturn]

If nothing else works to remove the air try opening the unions a little bit, on either side of the heater and bleed the lines there. This is what my owners manual says to do for trapped air that won't come out.

[Silent Water]

Thanks, everyone for the troubleshooting tips!

I'm happy to say that there was no major "surgery" required.  I popped the top on the diverter valve and that seemed to do the trick.  (No way to drop a hose in the filter intake pipe on my tub).  Not sure how it helped since the diverter is in the return line, not in the supply hose to the circulation pump - but hey, I'm not complaining!

Now that the circ pump isn't trying to suck air, my tub no longer sounds like a Maxwell House commercial and the heater can maintain the set temp with ease.

You all rock!  Thanks for the help. [smiley=bath.gif]