HS Moto Massage Leak

[lawdawgva]

Well, I'm back after a long absence.  Its been a great summer and I've been away from home a lot and the rest of the time I've been remodeling my living room so I haven't been on the forum a great deal.  When I got home from my last vacation last week, I noticed my deck was wet around the moto massage area of my HS Sovreign.  Well today I had a chance to dig into it.  I found it leaking at the plastic nipple where a very small (1/4 or 3/8" possibly) hose attaches to it with a spring clamp.  The edge of the hose looks dry rotted so I'm sure I can probably cut back aways and attach an adapter, new length of hose on the end and new clamp and be ok there.   Three questions.
 
1. I noticed wetness in the softer foam insulation above this area and a fair way to the sides as I dug.  Do you think this could be from wicking action?  Should I look for another leak farther up?  I didn't see anythign obvious leaking down the inner part of the shell above that area (4 air outlets at the neck area of the moto massage were dry), just the wetness of the soft insulation.

2.  I cracked the two boards I took off.  I could probably repair them to work, but just out of curiosity...where do you get replacement boards to match and what would they run pricewise?

3. What type of insulation should I use to seal it all up when i am sure the leak is fixed? Low expansion Great Stuff???  Pack in loose insulation??

If this doesn't fix it I guess I'll call in the pros.  I just wanted to see if it was something simple since the lady at the dealer said it would be a $75 call charge and $65 per hour plus parts.  She also said sometimes they like to bring them in at additional cost if necessary.  My middle name is Scrooge so......nuff said.  Thanks for any help you can give on this.  I will say this....digging into just that small area and getting the harder insulation away from the hoses was a b**ch.....so I can understand the high labor charge for working on these things.  Hats off to those who have refurbished their own tubs.

Law Dawg

[wesj53]

Just out of curiousity, how old is your spa?

[lawdawgva]

1997 model.  I bought it used last June for $1500.  It was in great shape and this is the first problem I've had with it.

- Law Dawg

[wesj53]

Well at least the price was right! I do feel for you, though, fighting all that foam. Once you locate and repair the problem, then are you going to re-foam? Using what? Does HS offer a foaming cartridge or do they have to come out to do it?

[shabba34]

1997 model.  I bought it used last June for $1500.  It was in great shape and this is the first problem I've had with it.

- Law Dawg

I'll get you the price of the boards tomorrow, you may need to stain the boards to match as well.  Repair sounds fine, just a bleed nipple.  Replace with expansion foam.  Just don't close the wound for a few days to make sure repair was done properly.  

[Chas]

Yes, exactly what was just posted.

One more detail - there is a bleed nipple repair part for those little parts. It is part number 30598, and you can drill out the old one with a 19/64" drill bit (yes, a 5/16" will do in a pinch) and then glue the nipple in with good quality PVC cement. Let it cure for several hours before you try to put the bleed line back on it - and be sure to warm up the  tubing a bit. I use a low-dollar heat gun from the craft store, but a cup of really hot water fresh out of the microwave oven will work if you can dip the end of the tub into it.

And if the clamp is rusted - which they usually are if the leak has been ther for awhile - be sure to replace it. Get that from your HS dealer at the same time.

If you need help getting these parts send me an email and I would be very glad to help.

 8-)

[gturn]

Make sure you leave the side panels off until everything is good and dry after you are done.  I saw a spa that had a leak and the entire inside became a big sponge and got mold in it and it stunk bad.  I don't know if they recommend removing all the wet foam and replacing it or if it will dry out if you let it air out.  Maybe you could run a fan on it like they do on carpet that gets wet.  Good luck.

[lawdawgva]

Lots of great advice, thanks everyone (and keep it coming if you have something more to add!)  

At this point, I think that it is just the end of the tubing that is cracked and leaking but I will know more later this week when I actually pull the tubing off and check the state of the nipple.  If the nipple needs replacing, Chas, I will probably be contacting you for the info on the kit to fix.  Hopefully it is just the end of the tubing where it is kinked and I can slice off the bad part, put a two sided barb connector on a new short piece of tubing and then connect that to the existing nipple.  We will see what happens.

Now as for the softer foam insulation, yes it was VERY water logged all the way around this area.  I took out a great deal and even pulled it all the way out to the bottom meeting the wooden rail of the frame and a lot of it was draining out there tonight. The hard outer foam was acting as a dam and blocking the water in until I dug it all the way out down to the bottom and that seemed to open things up so to speak.  I hope it will dry out.  I only had to remove two boards to access this area (as I had a pretty good idea where the leak was at from the get go).  I dont want to remove (i.e. "break") LOL any more boards so that open space will have to do for drying out the inside.  Just praying at this point that that is the only leak, I'd sure hate to have to go digging for more.  <fingers, toes and eyes crossed>

-Law Dawg

[hottub.pool_boy]

Chas has it. Get some waterprrof Elmer's carpentry wood glue to fix the boards, restain when dry. Your dealer or I can get you new boards if you want. Some spray-can expanding foam works fine, shave off the extra before putting the boards back on. To glue the boards back use a construction adhesive and some thin nails at the base of the board to go through the wood at the bottom. Let us know if you need anything.

[lawdawgva]

Ok...here's the scoop.  It is the actual nipple that has cracked and broken.  I called my HS dealer today and the repair tech was very nice and gave me his cell phone number in case I needed to call him further on this.  I was impressed.  He told me that the repair nipple was cheap as dirt.  He said, just as was stated earlier, that I could drill the hole out and put the new nipple in with something he called Dafcon(sp)??  However he said that he'd have to sell me a whole kit of that which ran $80!!!!  So, he said in a pinch I could use "high strength PVC Glue"  I asked at Home Depot and Lowes and no one has ever heard of  "high strength".  They say its all one strength.  So.....my question is, do I trust this repair to regular PVC Glue?  Will this hold?  I do not want to do this repair again for the foreseable future.   Also...the waterlogged insulation is not drying out very quickly, is it permissable to close this repair up even if there is some moisture left in there?

-Law Dawg

[Tatooed_Lady]

maybe replace the nipple, and wait for the surrounding insulation to dry before re-foaming....it won't be a "pretty" time for your tub, but hopefully it'll be the only time you have to work on this particular repair...good thing you found the leak now instead of mid-December.....
(just my $.01 3/4)

[Chas]

I asked at Home Depot and Lowes and no one has ever heard of  "high strength".  They say its all one strength.  So.....my question is, do I trust this repair to regular PVC Glue?  Will this hold?  I do not want to do this repair again for the foreseable future.

I have used "Christy's Red Hot Blue Glue" forever. And I have done several of these repairs with just that - it works fine. I just wanted you to avoid the real cheap clear PVC glue which can be a problem.

If they carry Oatey, use the Heavy Gray.

If they have the Christy's, use the Red Hot Blue Glue.


And get all the wet faom out. It's a pain, but get it all.

[lawdawgva]

They definately have the Oatey Grey....but I'll check on the Christys  and see if they have that too since you've used it with success.   Yeah the wet foam is going to be a pain....I'm probably going to have to remove a few more boards on each side because this booger has been leaking for a few weeks now and everything has had time to soak it up like a sponge.  Guess I'd better get digging.  At least the temps here are scheduled to be in the 50's at night and 80's in the daytime.  Going to get the nipple today since they have them in stock.  I'll keep you all posted.

-Law Dawg

[st18901]

Wow - Deja vu to my HS restoration project last year.
Sounds like all the advice is good, so I won't add any.
I'll just reiterate what hot tub boy said about gluing the boards -- do it carefully, and you'll never know they were cracked.
Just make sure to clean the glue that squeezes out of the crack before it dries. Otherwise, it's unneeded work to get the wood to match.

[hottub.pool_boy]

You need transition cement---ABS to PVC.