Who is telling me the truth?Arctic or Beachcomber?

[wesj53]

Well at least you bought your tub based on comfort, feel, look, price, etc...

Honestly that wasn't the impression you gave with you post regarding quality, as well as the way you spoke of the insulation. I know it's hard to comprehend text but you should understand this is a hot tub forum and people can be very defensive of their brand, even when someone states facts like tub specifications.
I think most do it just to reasure themselves they made a good decision, since there is very little evidence of which actually is the best hot tub...

Which is sort of ironic considering the domain name.

Hey what do you know sledjunkie, I agree with almost everything you said!! Whether it's written emails or chat rooms, feelings and attitude are not expressed well; in fact, much of what is stated can be totally misinterpreted. Thus, I guess we all have to be very careful in what and how we write. But I never critiqued any brand; rather just tried to answer the thread's question IMO. I guess I opened some wounds or insulted somebody's feelings with my comments about the Arctic brand. I am finding - and this is definitely just my impression - that the Arctic line is gaining more popularity and based upon information that they are now in the top 10 of mfgs, they are also receiving more criticism of the way they produce their tubs from their competition. Thanks for your response.

[Altazi]

I wouldn t really say  the Air tight scheme of things has longevity

Wesj53"The TP method of production to my knowledge consists of foaming the perimeter of the cabinet AS WELL AS the complete bottom of the spa, leaving a chamber of airspace which heats up thru use of motor pumps. The heatlock system (used by Arctic only to my knowledge) foams the perimeter of the cabinet and ONLY the area between the lip of the shell and the cabinet (where outside air can leak in). There is NO foam placed against the bottom of the shell"



This is a pic of the lip of an Arctic as the somke proves its not air tight

Am I the only person here who is wondering why there is smoke pouring out of the Arctic spa cabinet??

[wesj53]

People think the Arctic chamber is air tight. I never made the statement and the Arctic literature I have doesn't state that it is. Rather, Arctic states that the chamber is a "sealed dead air space similar to that found in most houses in the northern parts of the US and Canada". We all know that houses are insulated but not air tight. Most HVAC experts I have talked to and heard don't think air tight on homes is a good thing; rather they should "breathe" to some degree.

In terms of why there is steam escaping between the shell and the cabinet (if we are interpreting the picture accurately), my only guess is that it was the result of operator error by not applying a  continuous layer of foam in that seam. That should be easy to fix and probably covered under warranty. It's an interesting picture, but more interesting that someone on this site would retain such a photo. Makes you wonder if it's from an Arctic competitor!?

[wesj53]

Now that I review the picture again, I am confused as to what is sitting on top of this tub. In addition, the photo is inconclusive as to where exactly the steam is rising from. It could be simply steam escaping from the tub itself without an Arctic cover on it. That cover is not an Arctic so I am somewhat suspect of the intent of this picture as well as the angle that it was shot at. Judge for yourself.

[sledjunkie]

There is the "defending the brand" thing I was talking about...

[shabba34]

In terms of why there is steam escaping between the shell and the cabinet (if we are interpreting the picture accurately), my only guess is that it was the result of operator error by not applying a  continuous layer of foam in that seam. That should be easy to fix and probably covered under warranty. It's an interesting picture, but more interesting that someone on this site would retain such a photo. Makes you wonder if it's from an Arctic competitor!?

As many of the proffessionals on this board can attest to, there is a certain feeling you get when someone is shopping you.  It may be the look on their face, their expertice on a certain product, their blatant mis-use of industry lingo, etc...  It seems that if you (wesj53) are infact not affiliated with Arctic Spas, maybe you should be.  I mean that as a compliment in the sense that you know so much about their product from a manufacturing standpoint and warranty performance, as well as the details of the cover itself and what it actually looks like in a picture.  Not having even taken delivery of the product yet makes it even more impressive. :-/

[anne]

It seems that if you (wesj53) are infact not affiliated with Arctic Spas, maybe you should be.  I mean that as a compliment in the sense that you know so much about their product from a manufacturing standpoint and warranty performance, as well as the details of the cover itself and what it actually looks like in a picture.  Not having even taken delivery of the product yet makes it even more impressive. :-/

For Pete's sake, at least be honest. You dont meant that as a complement, or you would not put in a dig like "not having even taken delivery...."  

The photo is confusing. It was obviously taken by someone trying to make a point, and so the amount of information left out leaves it very suspicious. I dont have to be an Arctic dealer to figure that out. Obviously the cabinet in not air-tight. Why in the worlk would you want to do that?? I'm not a big fan of mold and other crawlies that would thrive in a warm, airtight space.

[Repeat_Offender]

Boy, the level of subterfuge is getting to be a bit much...what is being gained by all this cloak and dagger stuff?

[shabba34]

It seems that if you (wesj53) are infact not affiliated with Arctic Spas, maybe you should be.  I mean that as a compliment in the sense that you know so much about their product from a manufacturing standpoint and warranty performance, as well as the details of the cover itself and what it actually looks like in a picture.  Not having even taken delivery of the product yet makes it even more impressive. :-/

For Pete's sake, at least be honest. You dont meant that as a complement, or you would not put in a dig like "not having even taken delivery...."  

The photo is confusing. It was obviously taken by someone trying to make a point, and so the amount of information left out leaves it very suspicious. I dont have to be an Arctic dealer to figure that out. Obviously the cabinet in not air-tight. Why in the worlk would you want to do that?? I'm not a big fan of mold and other crawlies that would thrive in a warm, airtight space.

Sorry to offend you Anne, but the post is relayed exactly how I intended, sarcastic!  I am not speaking of the product itself which is why I'm sure you are offended being an owner of the same fine product.  I am mearly questioning an individuals intentions, which I hope are on the up and up.  

[wesj53]

In terms of why there is steam escaping between the shell and the cabinet (if we are interpreting the picture accurately), my only guess is that it was the result of operator error by not applying a  continuous layer of foam in that seam. That should be easy to fix and probably covered under warranty. It's an interesting picture, but more interesting that someone on this site would retain such a photo. Makes you wonder if it's from an Arctic competitor!?

As many of the proffessionals on this board can attest to, there is a certain feeling you get when someone is shopping you.  It may be the look on their face, their expertice on a certain product, their blatant mis-use of industry lingo, etc...  It seems that if you (wesj53) are infact not affiliated with Arctic Spas, maybe you should be.  I mean that as a compliment in the sense that you know so much about their product from a manufacturing standpoint and warranty performance, as well as the details of the cover itself and what it actually looks like in a picture.  Not having even taken delivery of the product yet makes it even more impressive. :-/

Call me naive and call Anne smart but I took your comments as a compliment pkud! No, I am not an Arctic salesman or associated with them in any way. I am an insurance agent in west suburban Chicago! I just do a lot of research when I buy a big ticket item which I plan on keeping for a long time. So I just used my head and decided for myself which product would be best for us and which was manufactured the best IMO. I may end up being proven wrong in buying the Arctic since I knew nothing about this industry or it's products before my wife began prodding me to buy a unit (yes, it was her idea, not mine). But I found these things and this industry to be quite interesting and so I learned as much as I could from industry types (like you?) who know a lot more about this stuff than !.
Regarding the pic, well Arctic's covers are brown, not whatever is sitting on top of this tub. In addition, there is NO other cabinet in the market that we saw that was as impressive as Arctic's. It is truly beautiful cabinetry that I don't think is rivaled in the industry. So I recognized it! I take delivery in a couple of weeks. I will report to all how things are working - without bias. So pkud, believe me or not. It's your call!

[shabba34]

Oh, you insurance salesman are all the same.
Can't blame someone for being cautious...I wish you nothing but the best with your purchase.

[anne]

It seems that if you (wesj53) are infact not affiliated with Arctic Spas, maybe you should be.  I mean that as a compliment in the sense that you know so much about their product from a manufacturing standpoint and warranty performance, as well as the details of the cover itself and what it actually looks like in a picture.  Not having even taken delivery of the product yet makes it even more impressive. :-/

For Pete's sake, at least be honest. You dont meant that as a complement, or you would not put in a dig like "not having even taken delivery...."  

The photo is confusing. It was obviously taken by someone trying to make a point, and so the amount of information left out leaves it very suspicious. I dont have to be an Arctic dealer to figure that out. Obviously the cabinet in not air-tight. Why in the worlk would you want to do that?? I'm not a big fan of mold and other crawlies that would thrive in a warm, airtight space.

Sorry to offend you Anne, but the post is relayed exactly how I intended, sarcastic!  I am not speaking of the product itself which is why I'm sure you are offended being an owner of the same fine product.  I am mearly questioning an individuals intentions, which I hope are on the up and up.  

OK, sorry to jump down your throat if it was a compliment on the up and up......I guess I dont really get the idea of a sarcastic compliment, but hey, it is hard to relay subtleties in print. If you guys arent upset with each other, then I'm not either.

[Pathfinder]

Sorry I wasn t around to fully explain the pic.  This is one pic from a series of pics.  It is infact an Arctic Purchased by a dealer in Sask. Canada  Dead of winter he hooked the tub up in his compound and let it sit in a real world environment.  Before the tub was filled and running a couple of smoke cannisters were placed in the cabinet to see if any heat (ie smoke) would be escaping Thus smoke between shell and lip and cabinet.

I will also post a pic regarding the cover with snow on it and showing how much heat is lost through the middle of the cover.  

Brand new an Arctic is probly a really good tub but longevity with this design  is still to be determined

[wesj53]

Sorry I wasn t around to fully explain the pic.  This is one pic from a series of pics.  It is infact an Arctic Purchased by a dealer in Sask. Canada  Dead of winter he hooked the tub up in his compound and let it sit in a real world environment.  Before the tub was filled and running a couple of smoke cannisters were placed in the cabinet to see if any heat (ie smoke) would be escaping Thus smoke between shell and lip and cabinet.

I will also post a pic regarding the cover with snow on it and showing how much heat is lost through the middle of the cover.  

Brand new an Arctic is probly a really good tub but longevity with this design  is still to be determined

Ok Pathfinder. First of all, I hope you recognize that I nor Arctic claim an "air tight" chamber as you suggested. Secondly, we don't know how old this unit is. Thirdly, we cannot validate this experiment. Fourth, we don't know why the "iceberg" is siting on top of the unit. With all that being said, IF all you say is true, then I would suggest that there was probably some operator error in not COMPLETELY foaming the rim area between the shell and the cabinet. But to suggest that escaping smoke (which naturally will rise) is comparable to cold air entering the chamber thru a very small crevise is hardly valid since IMO the hotter air inside the chamber with more pressure would counteract any cold air trying to enter. In reading spa sites over the last month, I find it interesting that one of the brands that is probably sniped at the most is Arctic, even though most agree it is one of the best made products in the industry. Could it be that the FF industry types are afraid of the different mfg process and features that Arctic offers to consumers, or might it be that Arctic is now one of the top ten mfgs in the world (according to my dealer)?

[Pathfinder]

Can someone tell me the definition of sealed dead air space???  I have to be missing something.

Now your telling me that the pressure of the hot air would prevent the cold coming in that small air gap

this would be considered by most people as heat loss
I never said anything about cold air entering  
Top 10 in terms of What?
The point of the experiment is longevity of the design it is an older tub. So unless your only concern is the first couple years of efficiency then thats great.
There is no "iceberg"


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