Visited Arctic dealer today...............

[SerjicalStrike]

If the power goes out, you can always put a blanket in front of the vents on a full foam spa.  

[Spatech_tuo]

BTW, my last post should not in any way be construed as anti-Arctic but rather "anti-cflrules scare tactic approach". There are a lot of happy Arctic customers on these sites and a lot of arctic dealers who sell on their products merits so my hats off to them as they seem to be a fast growing spa company s they must be doing things right.

To further set the record straight I grew up in upstate NY and must admit I'd get home from school and watch CFL games on TV. I always found it odd that they were on day like Thursday and the field was the size of a cornfield but I watched and found it odd but fun. I watched Warren Moon play pro ball before any of the NFL watchers knew his name (assuming they weren't from the UW area). To us growing up, Canada seemed like just another state and when I got to my older teens I found out it had the good beer. But don't get me started on ice soccer hockey (sorry, I couldn't help it)!

[HotTubMan]

 Difference being, any foam fulled spa with no insulation surrounding the equipment compartment would have frozen pumps lines, element, etc...while the Arctic is still above freezing.  No way uninsulated components full of water do not freeze in that time period. Regardless of heaters, blankets, your wife's hair dryer, etc.....

Keeping with your heat transfer philosophy, wouldn't the hot water in the plumbing and tub radiate toward the equipment?

When and if there was freezing around the equipment, would the ice damage all components you listed, or simply break the weakest link, the union?

We are in a cold climate, Whitby Ontario Canada. I know there are colder areas on both sides of the border. We received a call in December this year. A customers tub was freezing up.

When I spoke with the lady of the house, it was revealed that the husband had drained and refilled the tub one month earlier but did not turn the power back on. At the date of the service call, temperatures had been in the -7 to -15 celsius for a week.

When my technician went, the top of the water in the spa had a layer of ice. The equipment would not start because there was ice in the pump and plumbing.

We left a space heater in the equipment area for 24 hours, went back and started it up....and here is the unbelievable part, NO LEAKS, NO DAMAGE.

So, you talk with a great deal of confidence that other products WILL freeze and yours won't. Well, mine didn't, so if you can be wrong about one thing.....

[stuart]

We have dealt with 5 freeze damaged spas that were under warrenty this year and they where all partially foamed spas. Because of this we tell our customers with TP spas to set more frequent filter cycles to keep the "dead air" space warm.

What we are finding is that when they are running the motors with the cover on they read 1 to 2 degrees above the set point but when the pumps turn off for more than 4 hours there is not only a temp drop but a chance of freezing plumbing in some spots.

Since we've had people increase filter times we have had next to no damage.

[stl-rex]

I'll step away from cflrules with a different approach from an owner's perspective.  The benefit, if there is one, as I see it, is that I can run three pumps at ~5F with wind and not have to worry about having to run the heater (from experience).  Mine held temp just fine for 40 minutes (two cycles) at 102.  I know because mine shows me the temp of the water (unlike some), not the set temp.  Some here jaw about three pumps disables the heater (because from an electrical standpoint, you can't run three pumps and a heater simultaneously.)  I say who cares?  I don't need it.
What does three pumps get you?  Good flow to all jets (and more of them) and all seats.  The alternative is two pumps, fewer jets and less performance or strong "zoned" therapy that has other limitations.  I don't have to live with the compromise.  
Interestingly, those who don't have a hot tub don't appreciate ours near as much as those who do.  Those who have them can't believe the power, but more importantly can't believe how good the deep therapy seat is and how effective it is.  "I wish my spa had this seat" or similar has been the recurring theme.

From an energy use standpoint, we were in it most days in December (our coldest since '89).  Our bill was up $15 over last year.  However, we had new/extra X-mas decorations up including one of those obnoxious inflatable things.  So I'm guessing our net bill increase was between $10 and $15.  Not bad considering size (540 gal) and usage.

I just don't get why some Arctic folk focus on the once in a million possible but unsubstantiated theoretical benefit when a more tangible everyday benefit is so easy to explain.

[magic_man]

I have been working on spas for 9 years and I can honestly say that I have seen Hot Spring equipment comp. freeze in less then 24 hr. Sure the water up top was hot but the heart of the system frozen solid. 3/4 lines don't take long to freeze. On the other hand the Arctic spa does not have foam on back of the spa shell, so if there was a power outage the heat transferes back down to equip.(a basic rule). Now if this spa was installed in a climate where freezing doesn't happen there are still benifits of keeping all the wasted heat energy from motors(not just freezing) now your electric element doesn't have to turn on as offten to maintain heat in spa, less power usage means more money in your pocket. I think it just makes sense :-/

[HotTubMan]

I have been working on spas for 9 years and I can honestly say that I have seen Hot Spring equipment comp. freeze in less then 24 hr. Sure the water up top was hot but the heart of the system frozen solid. 3/4 lines don't take long to freeze. On the other hand the Arctic spa does not have foam on back of the spa shell, so if there was a power outage the heat transferes back down to equip.(a basic rule). Now if this spa was installed in a climate where freezing doesn't happen there are still benifits of keeping all the wasted heat energy from motors(not just freezing) now your electric element doesn't have to turn on as offten to maintain heat in spa, less power usage means more money in your pocket. I think it just makes sense :-/

Bill, can we get an IP check here?

[galen]

I checked with my home owners policy, all these posts are a moot point. I'm covered.  

[wesj53]

I have been working on spas for 9 years and I can honestly say that I have seen Hot Spring equipment comp. freeze in less then 24 hr. Sure the water up top was hot but the heart of the system frozen solid. 3/4 lines don't take long to freeze. On the other hand the Arctic spa does not have foam on back of the spa shell, so if there was a power outage the heat transferes back down to equip.(a basic rule). Now if this spa was installed in a climate where freezing doesn't happen there are still benifits of keeping all the wasted heat energy from motors(not just freezing) now your electric element doesn't have to turn on as offten to maintain heat in spa, less power usage means more money in your pocket. I think it just makes sense :-/

Thank you very much for that insight magic man. I recently purchased an Arctic Tundra and did so because of their overall superior quality (IMO), seating layout, comfort & variety of seats, # of jets, etc. etc. etc. AND the Heatlock system. I did a lot of research before buying and my common sense dictated that for a number of reasons the heated chamber was superior to FF. My question to you as a repairman is during the summer months, I have read that Arctics will overheat due to their insulated system. I live in suburban Chicago and will have the spa in a heavily shaded yard. My dealer tells me I should have no problems (especially when I plan on bringing the water temp down to the high 80's in July and Aug) but in situations where a spa is in full sun and hot temps, vented cabinet panels can be installed to allow heat to escape. Could you offer me some expert non-biased advice as to what you have experienced on this subject and what I can expect to see? I would appreciate it! Thanks.

[anne]

I dont think magic man has been around in a long time, but I'll offer you my unsolicited and  non-professional opinion, based on one summer in Sacramento CA with my Arctic.....

I read similar reports as you did about Arctic overheating in the heat, so I asked Arctic about that issue. I dont remember now whether I conversed with Dan, a tech- guy from Arctic or Hot tub Guru, a member here and a dealer......but the info I was given was this:
The concern for overheating and equipment failure is a myth, because those parts are made to work at well over 150 deg F. I asked if I should invest in vented cabinet panels, and he told me not to worry about it. Dispite his attempts to allay my concerns, I was still a bit worried that my filtration could be compromized if the tub kept going over set temp, therefore turning off the filtration cycle to prevent the water overheating. I watched my tub like a hawk this summer, and there was never a problem. There were certainly times that I'd see the filtration cycle "suspended" so the temp could come down, but I never had any water quality issues. The heat wave this summer was pretty awful, with I think 13 days in a row here of 100+ deg. days. I did prop a tennis ball under the cover for venting on hot days, and often opened it at night a few hours prior to using it.  

[wesj53]

Thanks for the info Anne. Obviously your weather and ours are extremely different. It is rare when we get one - 100 degree day here in an entire summer. So, I'm really not worried about it; just curious. During your much longer summer, where do you keep your water set temp at? I am planning on gradually reducing it during June so that by July and August, I'll have water in the mid to high 80's. My dealer said that should be possible wihout vents, especially in my shaded yard. Can't you do something similar? If you cut back on the spa temp setting, your heater will run less (if at all) what with the outside temps at elevated levels.

[anne]

I had mine set at 99 in the heat of the summer. And I still think the heater was almost never on. I thought about turning it lower, but then it would not be a "hot tub" It is mostly shaded except for a short time in the morning.

[wesj53]

Anne, some would suggest you don't need a hot tub when it's a fricking 100+ for over 16 days in a row!!! I know - it's a DRY HEAT! Plus, I'm sure your nights get down to what, maybe the high 70's.
oooooo, chilly!

Our family has a lake home in northern WI (Rhinelander) and even in the middle of summer, you normally have nights in the 60's (good sleeping weather as we say in the midwest) and it's a pure delight to sit outside in our tub (a cheaper Keys Backyard we purchased at Home Depot 3 years ago before I knew anything about spas) and watch the thousands of stars (including shooters) overhead. No city lights nor any pollution to diminish the effect. You can't beat God's handywork!

[anne]

Sigh. I miss being places with no air/light pollution. Even when I go backpacking, it is still not the same as it was when I was a kid.

Its not generally 100+ here, but it does happen. In the summer it tends to be 70-95, with some variation, and in the winter 35-65. I'm looking forward to the colder weather if only because the tub will be that much more appealing. By the time i got it in late February, it was already starting to warm up a bit here.

[Altazi]

Hi Anne,

You should visit Central Oregon.  A resort community, Sunriver, has a very aggressive light pollution policy.  The skies are wonderful!  The summers are warm, the winters are cold and can get snowy.

Regards,

Altazi