Visited Arctic dealer today...............

[PackerPaul]

    I'm in Minneapolis for two weeks for work & I looked up an Arctic Spa dealer to visit as they had been on my short list of potential purchases. There were no Arctic dealers within a resonable distance to me in southern Wi so I crossed them off my list and put a deposit on another hot tub last weekend.
   I was upfront with the salesman as I talked with him about my location and my latest purchase. He was happy to talk to me ( I was the only one in the store the whole time) even though he knew he wasn't going to sell me his spa.
   I have to say that I was very impressed with the Arctic line & found myself wishing I could have had the opportunity to seriously consider them. The redwood cabinets were easily the nicest cabinets I had seen so far. The covers were very impressive.
   One thing I found curious....no pricing anywhere! We didn't really discuss price other than for him to say I could have gotten into a Tundra for about what I paid for my Caldera Niagra.
   One thing that bothered me......We were discussing FF vs. TP(?)(naturally ),  and he commented that my FF Caldera would freeze up in 3 hours if I lost power in sub-zero weather!!!! I didn't argue the point with him as I really have no idea if this is true or not. This got me thinking later.....how long could I expect my spa to last without damage if I lost power in Jan/Feb So.Wi. winters? I can understand his point that TP would probably last longer( especially the component area ie. pumps, motors as my FF tub area would add very little heat to that area during a power outage vs. his Arctic system), but 3 hours??
   Anybody here lost their power during the dead of winter and had any freeze damage?

[ramdom]

I think you should look in the 'Beating A Dead Horse' forum - you may be surprised at what you find. I'm new around here but the debate and answer to your question is apparently quite old.

Good Luck!

[PackerPaul]

I have read all of the posts on Arctic TP vs. FF debates. I don't remember any of them addressing potential power failure issues and how long you have till serious freezing could happen. I was just curious if anyone has had a sub zero failure and what they experienced from it.

[ramdom]

Actually I thought the same thing after I reread your post - sorry for jumping to inconclusive conclusions. I'm living in the Ottawa Valley and we had a -40C cold snap last year which is pretty darn cold. I'd have the same concerns if the (partial FF?...Thermopane.) tub I'm getting, shut down for a few days. I bet if it's cold enough and nobody noticed or you weren't around, you're screwed no matter what the type of tub construction. But that's just me speaking from inexperience again so I should leave replies to people who might actually know something.

[wmccall]

For what it is worth, last during last Christmas' ice storm I lost power for about 18 hours and my tub went from 102-95.  It was around 10F if I remember right.

[Tman122]

At 20-30 below if the power shuts down at your house the last thing you need to worry about is your tub. Life or death will take priority. But FYI at that temp a plan will have to be sought for any type of tub construction or insulation because freezing is inevitable. If theres a tub problem and it is not powered up a plan is your best course of action. Make sure your dealers number or your repair guys number is close at hand. A simple light bulb or small electric heater placed inside the cabinet will ward off freezing until the vessel water reaches the freezing point.  While it is true that a FF tubs equipment area will freeze quicker than a TP equipment area. The vessel on a FF tub will last longer than the vessel on a TP tub if it goes that far. If you take a styrofoam cup thats 2 inches thick and fill it with warm water and a styrofoam cup thats regular thick and do the same then set them outside in -20-30 temps the difference is negligable but the thicker foam cup will last longer. Which means nothing. The equipment area on a FF tub will be easier to keep heated if there's a problem for an extended period of time. So pretty much I think haveing a plan instead of worrying about which will freeze quicker is more important. Any temp down to about 15-20 above is easy to deal with but below that and it becomes a planning type issue. I use a portable propane forced air heater in my garage. This heater can be directed towards my HT and my tub can be tarped in it's own little house if need be to effectivly keep it from freezing and to aid my repair in a warm environment. Or I have a back up Gen Set available....LOL Contingency plans man.

[salesdvl]

I remember seeing a letter written by a Hot Spring owner (in NY I believe)  It told a story about a spa that went for like 3 days without power during a blizzard.  The temp went from 103 down to about 85.  

[windsurfdog]

Being a Florida boy, I don't know squat about cold weather......

That being said, sounds like a generator would be a necessity for cold weather tub owners.  I would think running the tub just 2-3 hours a day would be enough to fend off freezing.  Certainly a kerosene heater in the equipment compartment would be a consideration as well.

Or you could just keep your tub at my house.....

[JcDenton]

I live in the northern hemisphere, far away from any oceanic influence - our temps get hot, hot hot in the summer (3 months if lucky), and can be downright nasty in the winter (6-7 months). (-30 C is ? in F?)

There is always much debate over Arctic and I hope that being an Arctic owner I could shed some 1st hand experience onto some of these questions. However, my tub/power has yet to fail me at any time, neverless during the winter. If that does happen at some point, I will be glad to share my experience with anyone interested.

Typically, power failures do not last days. However, if that did occur, I'm confident that it would be relatively painless to maintain the integrity of my tub in the meantime.


Jc

[Brewman]

PackerPaul-

What Arctic dealer did you visit?  Was it the one in Burnsville by any chance?  (about 20 miles south of MPLS)

[nicker]

What I have heard you do if you loose power for an extended amount of time is to cover the tub with several blankets if possible and DO NOT open the cover.   I have also heard of the lightbulb or small space heater in the pump compartment.  But I have a hard time with that one since oh ya I don't have any power so how can I power the light bulb or space heater.  The only way you could do that is if you obviously have a generator.

so Paul how about them packers!!!!  

[Spatech_tuo]

  and he commented that my FF would freeze up in 3 hours if I lost power in sub-zero weather!!!!

3 Hours? Sure, with the cover open maybe.

His presentation to you may have been very credible up until then but he loses it there. Selling based on mistruths about the competition and using fear is unfortunate. In his defense, maybe he really thinks that because that's what he was told but it's not even close.

[leesweet]

A simple light bulb or small electric heater placed inside the cabinet will ward off freezing until the vessel water reaches the freezing point.  

Er, and you run this light bulb how?    Squirrel in cage?

Seems like catch-22, unless you assume you have a generator, and then, you'd probably use the power for the house. (Perhaps you could spare 100W for the spa... )

[crapjack]

You can go to  www.goarctic.com where they have results from power loss testing and freeze up---

The thought is and it makes mechanical sense that the pumps and lines will be protected for some time as it will take days to cool off 400 gallons of water at 100 + degrees that is insulated.  Most FF spas pumps and lines are not insulated so you figure it out----you can also place a small fan forced heater in cabinet which will heat it up so things will not freeze (you may need a generator)
Another consideration is your pump(s) or heater failing in the cold of winter-say over a holiday weekend--it does not have to be a power outage. I feel better that i can stick a heater in it till a replacement can be found, possibly days.

I live in Northern Ontario where it gets very cold and i do own an Arctic because its a good tub and it makes sense. (at least to me)    

[Hot Tub Guru]

On a full foam spa, it's not the water in the shell that will freeze as quick, it's the equpiment area that you need to worry about.  Put a cup of water outside when it's cold, and see how long it takes to freeze.  Put a pump outside with the unions attached along with a heater, and see how long it takes to freeze.  You will have anywhere from a few hours to whenever.  But if it does freeze it you have about a 50/50 chance of something cracking (freezeing isen't covered under anyones warranty as far as I know).  Each winter my company (in Breckenridge, CO) dethaws rufly 40-60 frozen spas.  I have yet to dethaw an Arctic Spa!

Yes a small light bulb, or space heater will help keep the equipment from freezing.  That is if you get the space heater or bulb in your tub quickly.  An Arctic will have 4 plus days at 0 degrees (if the spa was at 104, the cover is on, and all your doors are on) before anything comes close to freezing because of the heatlock system.  

Call up any "service company" (in a cold weater area), and ask how many frozen spas have you fixed?  How many were Arctic Spas?

When an Arctic sales person tells this to a customer, they are not selling this feature basied on fear.  It's one more "advantage" of why Arctic makes such a great spa.  There is upgradability, access, freeze protection (with no power), energy efficency, thicker cover, forever floor (able to sit right on the dirt), CEDAR cabinets, etc....


Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com