GFI Tripping

[ptann]

My GFI breaker keeps tripping, my question is should I call the hot tub dealer or my electrician?

[shabba34]

What kind of spa?  20 amp or 50 amp?  Clean your filter/filters.  Unplug individual components one by one to test and see which component may be causing the problem.  

[GoBlue]

I would call the dealer first.  I believe there are more things that can go bad that a dealer has to fix.

[Brewman]

Agree- call the dealer.  Lots of defects could cause a GFI trip, less common to have the GFI itself fail.  

[badval]

I'd check the GFCI box itself first before calling anyone to make sure no moisture is accumulating inside.  Is the circuit dedicated to the tub or is there an outlet along the way somewhere?  If so, check it too.

I had one in my bathroom of last house that kept tripping & we couldn't figure out why.  Had electricians out 3 times before the 3rd one finally figured out the problem - an outside outlet on the front porch was on that circuit & would collect rain water  [smiley=shocked.gif]

I'd at least poke around looking for water accumulations or physical damage along the electrical route and inside the spa where the electrical connections terminate before calling anyone - unless either are under a warranty that won't cost you anything to have someone come out & diagnose.

[ptann]

My spa is a Artesian Grand Cayman, about 4 months old and hooked into a 50 amp 240v service with an exterior gfci box and breaker.  I took everyones advice and stated disconnecting motors from the control panel.  I was able to disco everything but the heater and the bromine generator (I use a salt water bromine system). I turned the bromine generator off and the breaker was still tripping as soon as I would turn it on.  I then disconnected the power and tested the breaker, it worked with no problems.  I then reconnected the power and still no luck.  At that point I walked away (grumbling I might add) and decided to call the dealer on Monday.  Sunday night before I went to bed I decided to give it another try.  It powered up and went through the start up cycle with no problems.  I checked it again this morning and its up to temp and still running.  I realize that dealers cant really trouble shoot a problem that is not happening when they visit.  My plan now is to keep a very close eye on it.  

Any suggestions

[Brewman]

Call you dealer or whomever you use for service, and describe exactly what the problem was, and what you did to get to where you are now.  
 Perhaps they've seen this on other similar spas, and they'll know what the problem(s) might be.  They can decide with you if and when to send out a tech.
If your GFI trips again, I'd leave it be and call service.  
 Don't know if you live in a winter cold climate, but if you do, it'd be better to get this fixed before freezing weather sets in.  
At least you narrowed it down to the spa being the issue, and not your wiring.

[patty]

Im Patty's Husband,
Im new to the hot tub repair businness. I was looking at spa breaker sites today and I read a few comments about using spa breakers. A spa store owner found the breakers were tripping.
He thought it was aging of the breaker but also suspects the varied power usage of most spas.
The recommendation was using a spa disconnect instead of a spa breaker.

[Cola]

Hello Patty
Please explain your statement further
If you choose to remove the GFI and replace it, then please forward a bit more info about your location so that I can
SEND FLOWERS AFTER YOUR FUNERAL YOU DUMBA$$

wheh
sorry, lost my mind there
too many G D idiots out there
EH!
Steve

[Brewman]

Im Patty's Husband,
Im new to the hot tub repair businness. I was looking at spa breaker sites today and I read a few comments about using spa breakers. A spa store owner found the breakers were tripping.
He thought it was aging of the breaker but also suspects the varied power usage of most spas.
The recommendation was using a spa disconnect instead of a spa breaker.

 I'd stay away from that website.  You got very bad advice, to remove the breaker.
That GFI is there for a reason, and if it's tripping, you have either a bad breaker, or some problem in your spa wiring, heater, etc.....
 Bypass the breaker at your (and anyone else who might be in there with you) own risk.

[patty]

Hello Patty
Please explain your statement further
If you choose to remove the GFI and replace it, then please forward a bit more info about your location so that I can
SEND FLOWERS AFTER YOUR FUNERAL YOU DUMBA$$

wheh
sorry, lost my mind there
too many G D idiots out there
EH!
Steve

Yeah... guess there are a lot of idiots out there...
Hey Cola
Our spa was just delivered Thursday.  For the last couple of weeks my husband (an engineer) has been researching the eletrical install on the net.  He started off saying he's new to all this and was simply sharing what he read..  I really don't understand any of this electrial stuff so its all greek to me.. but if what he read is not accurate/recommend just say so!!!  Do you need to insult?

I was hoping he'd find this forum a good source of information but geesh..... Seriously, how welcome is he gonna feel after being insulted for simply passing along something he'd read?
 
Brewman  -
Thanks for feedback.. I"ll pass along that the article may not be the best advice.    

[Brewman]

If your breaker is tripping, you really should get someone out there to diagnose and correct the problem.  Breakers can themselves fail, but in my non professional opinion, it's more likely to be with the spa.  
 But it's hard to know for sure what the exact cause might be.  I think it's time to call in a pro.  

[Chas]

Our spa was just delivered Thursday.  For the last couple of weeks my husband (an engineer) has been researching the eletrical install on the net.  He started off saying he's new to all this and was simply sharing what he read..  I really don't understand any of this electrial stuff so its all greek to me.. Brewman  -
Thanks for feedback.. I"ll pass along that the article may not be the best advice.    

Patty and Husband,

If what you did was to replace one type of GFI unit with another type of GFI unit, then you are still safe and may have solved your issue. I have used the Circuit Breaker type of GFI unit for close to twenty years on the spas I have sold, but I have seen many folks get good, safe service out of GFI disconnect boxes sold at home centers. The key is not to replace GFI breakers with non-GFI breakers and call it good. Also, some cutoffs have GFI protection while others are nothing more than a simple switch with no GFI protection.

I think the best advice would be to find the source of the problem, not to simply REMOVE GFI protection if there is a problem with it tripping, and I think that may be what promted the none-too-gracious response from Cola.

[Cola]

Hi Patty

I just think out load (or with my fingers)
I was at an electrical safety seminar this past week.  It was part of our OEL (Ontario ELectrical League) meeting and was put on by the ESA (Electrical Safety Authority) who is the governing body for Electrical Inspection and Safety in Ontario.  We got to see video and stills of the results of improper use of meters and similar equipment as well poor electrical practices by weekend warriors and handymen.

We got to see the results of some now dead jackass installing lightsfor an older lady along her driveway.  He used NMD (house wiring and ran it from the garage out side through gaps in the sidewalk, etc. as well as inserted in the gap where the cement driveway and curb meet.  The lady found him dead knelt over an indoor juntion box that he was burying.  That was 120V.

Another instance happened last year in London, On. two days before halloween.  An electrician was working in the main panel in a mall.  He went to check a circuit with his meter on the wrong settings.  Do to the size of the service (3000 Amps, 3 phase 600V) with an available fault current of 65000 amps, he caused an electrical flash when his leads touched the circuit causing the 3000 amp main to trip on the properly co-ordinated GFI which was set at 17 amps.  The mall was dark and he stumbled out of the electrical room on fire and got a standing ovation from people who thought it was a halloween display.  A Ministry of Labour inspector was nearby and he knew otherwise.  He helped the guy out, called 911 and took some graphic pictures for us to see.  The guy was wearing cotton so it flashed and burned off unlike polyester which would have stuck to him.  He had three layers of skin flashed away at the center and you could see the layers towards the side.

My point
I am the insulting asshole who see's the results of poor workmanship almost daily and my blunt comment will be the one that sticks in your head as well as being the jerk that just may help save your life someday and you won't even know that I did when your pissed off the the damn GFI is tripping.

Steve Colasanti
 :-?

[patty]

This is Patty's Husband....

Hey guys Im talking about using a 240 volt GFCI and DISCONECT with ALARM instead of a GFCI BREAKER. I will have a 60 amp breaker at the main panel also. As for the source the spa store owner that wrote the article was a former electrician.