Start up chemistry ?

[Mainer]

Just fired up my new Tahitian yesterday.  Talk about heaven.  Anyhow,  I've been trying to get my free chlorine level up without succes.  I'm using Di-chlor, Mps, And Nature 2.  Since yesterday, I,ve added 1 Tbls. of Di-chlor on three different occasions and still not showing any sign of free chlorine.  Don't want to overdose.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Hardness, Alk, and Ph are right on.  Thanks, Bill

[Vinny]

It could be one of four things that I can think of ...

You're using MPS instead of dichlor.

Your testing media is bad.

You bleached out the testing media (not likely though).

You have a huge bioload that's eating up the chlorine.

Also, the idea is to get 3 PPM chlorine 20 minutes after putting it in, if you're taking a reading any other time (4-5 hours later) it may be used up.

[Mainer]

Vinny,  Are you saying that I am not supposed to maintain a 3ppm free chlorine constantly?  I am using mps after usage.  thanks

[Vinny]

Yes, chlorine will disappear as time goes by. The 20 minute mark is when you want 3 PPM. At this time it's generally agreed upon that you have achieved sufficient disinfection of the tub.

Depending on how much initial free chlorine you start with (1 tablespoon will give me about 4.5 PPM), it may last 24 or 36 hours tops. It may last only overnight if it's low to start with.

But I want to warn you if your using MPS daily, you may have a huge bioload by the end of the week that is eating up the chlorine. I generaly suggest to use dichlor daily and MPS weekly as MPS doesn't kill bacteria.

[Garyjr]

Mainer,

Vinny was a GREAT help in getting mine and many others chemical levels straight right after start up.  It took me almost a week to establish enough chlorine reserve to register a consistent 1.5-3ppm of FC.  I would add 1 tbsp of dichor, the reading was fine and then gone an hour later.  Finally after super chlorinating about 3 times and adding 1 tsp per person after each soak, I was able to maintain the desired levels.  Came to the conclusion there must have been some "nasties" in the line from the factory.

Vinny, your the best........

JR

[Mainer]

Thanks All

[Vinny]

Garyjr,

Thanks for the kind words!

Vinny

[pg_rider]

The chemical kit that's coming with my tub, I think, only has MPS (no dichlor).  Should I plan on getting some dichlor as soon as the tub comes and use it right from the start?  And why would I want/need MPS if I'm using dichlor?

Thanks!

[drewstar]

The chemical kit that's coming with my tub, I think, only has MPS (no dichlor).  Should I plan on getting some dichlor as soon as the tub comes and use it right from the start?  And why would I want/need MPS if I'm using dichlor?

Thanks!

I would say YES.  Some folks use MPS as a daily sanitizer, but not many. Most folks use Dichlor (chlorine) as vinny stated;' after using the tub, and running the pumps for about 10 minutes, take a reading. I like mine about 4 ppm. (about 1.5 teaspoons for me).This sanitizes the tub, and dichlor usually drifts down to low levels after a few hours, so that next time you get in, you're not in a chemical stew.

MPS is tpically used as a shock. About once a week follow the directions on the bottle for shock treatment.    
Other folks shock with a super dose of dichlor.

Both work.  Shocking with MPS lets you use the tub sooner, but can contribute to the TDS (total disolved solids in the tub).  A super does of Dichlor ( afew tablespoons) adds less to the TDS, but it can be a day or so, maybe longer (in my experince) before the chlorine levels are back down to usable levels. Some folks alterante between Dichlor and MPS for shocking.

[Joel T]

To 2 week old water we've added 2 teaspoons dichlor nearly each day (and a 3 tablespoon dichlor shock twice) to clear, balanced water and all has continued to test OK. We left town and nothing was added for 3 nights.  Our 16yr old son stayed home and took one soak only (hmmm) but didn't add the dichlor. I've added 7 tablespoons so far to slightly cloady but balanced water, and have yet to get a chlorine reading from drops or test strips. I presume I'm killing off bacteria that came from nowhere. Could it be something else? Our tub does accummulate fir needles that line the filter and drive my wife nuts but can't see how they'd cause a bacteria (?) problem like this. Any ideas?

Joel

[Vinny]

If you add too much chlorine it could bleach out test strips but I have never seen it bleach out test kits.

You're fighting something in your tub. I would add 3 tablespoons of dichlor together and the chlorine will probably be around 12 to 15 PPM. Bacteria doubles rapidly in a tub (every 20 minutes). Also the PH affects the chlorine even if water is balanced. Make sure the PH is in the 7.2 to 7.4 range.

My tub will get cloudy from non use after 2 days ... bacteria can be air born. If your son soaked and was sweaty or something it is possible to have a huge amount (millions) of bacteria.

[Joel T]

I added 3 tablespoons this AM and it tested out as you said Vinny, to about 12ppm. Yesterday in trying to catch up a night or 2 of missed dosing, I ended up adding 9 tablespoons, in 2 teaspoon increments off and on, over a 10 hr or so period and nothing showed up. I'm missing a basic understanding of whats going on.  When a teaspoon or so's added, I'm "sanitizing" something? When I add tablespoons, I'm "oxidizing" something? What's happening? How's the dichlor know which to do and other than by generally accepted practices, how do I know which to do. If, after a nightly dose of 2 teaspoons, I only see 0ppm do I automatically shock the tub with tablespoons to see something?

Thanks

Joel

[Vinny]

I added 3 tablespoons this AM and it tested out as you said Vinny, to about 12ppm. Yesterday in trying to catch up a night or 2 of missed dosing, I ended up adding 9 tablespoons, in 2 teaspoon increments off and on, over a 10 hr or so period and nothing showed up. I'm missing a basic understanding of whats going on.  When a teaspoon or so's added, I'm "sanitizing" something? When I add tablespoons, I'm "oxidizing" something? What's happening? How's the dichlor know which to do and other than by generally accepted practices, how do I know which to do. If, after a nightly dose of 2 teaspoons, I only see 0ppm do I automatically shock the tub with tablespoons to see something?

Thanks

Joel

It is my understanding that chlorine does both at the same time. It will sanitize when needed and oxidize when needed. If the tub wasn't heated, you might go days with a chlorine residue but the heat disapates the chlorine. A chemical ion (ozone is part of this too) doesn't "know" anything, it reacts to a substance. As chlorine gets used up or disapates it has less effect on things. Killing bacteria and I believe oxidizing needs contact time ... If you stick 100 PPM chlorine in the tub and 1 miute later neutralized it, not much will be killed.

To oxidize combined chlorine (CC) you need 10x free chlorine (FC) as the CC amount. So if you have 0.3 PPM all you need is 3 PPM FC to oxidize; if you have 2 PPM CC then you need 20 PPM FC ... which is a lot of chlorine and that's where MPS can come into play. How much chlorine do you need to oxidize other things in a tub? I have no clue!

What you want to see is a residue of 3 or so PPM 20 minutes after adding and you should see some residue the following morning if dosing at night. If you don't see this you need to add more. I generally double the dose if the original dose didn't work. I believe what was going on in your tub that you never achived a good kill with the amount of chlorine you were putting in.

In 102º water bacteria doubles every 20 minutes so thinking that since your tub was used without adding dichlor, there were millions of bacteria in the tub. Adding the amounts of chlorine you were adding gave you partial kills and the bacteria kept thriving. I don't know if you've read any of my posts about my water but I can only go 2 days before my tub gets cloudy. I need to add dichlor every other day and it stays crystal clear.

[Vinny]

I added 3 tablespoons this AM and it tested out as you said Vinny, to about 12ppm. Yesterday in trying to catch up a night or 2 of missed dosing, I ended up adding 9 tablespoons, in 2 teaspoon increments off and on, over a 10 hr or so period and nothing showed up. I'm missing a basic understanding of whats going on.  When a teaspoon or so's added, I'm "sanitizing" something? When I add tablespoons, I'm "oxidizing" something? What's happening? How's the dichlor know which to do and other than by generally accepted practices, how do I know which to do. If, after a nightly dose of 2 teaspoons, I only see 0ppm do I automatically shock the tub with tablespoons to see something?

Thanks

Joel

It is my understanding that chlorine does both at the same time. It will sanitize when needed and oxidize when needed. If the tub wasn't heated, you might go days with a chlorine residue but the heat disapates the chlorine. A chemical ion (ozone is part of this too) doesn't "know" anything, it reacts to a substance. As chlorine gets used up or disapates it has less effect on things. Killing bacteria and I believe oxidizing needs contact time ... If you stick 100 PPM chlorine in the tub and 1 miute later neutralized it, not much will be killed.

To oxidize combined chlorine (CC) you need 10x free chlorine (FC) as the CC amount. So if you have 0.3 PPM all you need is 3 PPM FC to oxidize; if you have 2 PPM CC then you need 20 PPM FC ... which is a lot of chlorine and that's where MPS can come into play. How much chlorine do you need to oxidize other things in a tub? I have no clue!

What you want to see is a residue of 3 or so PPM 20 minutes after adding and you should see some residue the following morning if dosing at night. If you don't see this you need to add more. I generally double the dose if the original dose didn't work. I believe what was going on in your tub that you never achived a good kill with the amount of chlorine you were putting in.

In 102º water bacteria doubles every 20 minutes so thinking that since your tub was used without adding dichlor, there were millions of bacteria in the tub. Adding the amounts of chlorine you were adding gave you partial kills and the bacteria kept thriving. I don't know if you've read any of my posts about my water but I can only go 2 days before my tub gets cloudy. I need to add dichlor every other day and it stays crystal clear.

Sorry! I had a brain fart and some of the info I gave is wrong. I remember reading (and I think it was from Doc) that chlorine is broken into 2 distinct ions - killing type and oxidizing type. At a PH of 7.5 you have a 50/50 mix but if you lower the PH then you get more killing type and if you raise it more oxidizing type.

[gturn]

Makes me not want to try clorine, maybe I will stick with Bromine it is sure a lot easier.