just arrived

[drewstar]

I'm sorry but I feel most of you don't get it, that's why I continue to educate the consumers on this board. While shopping I learned early the Spa industry is a very screwed up, dirty business. Lots of lies being told. This market is much worse than the used car market in my opinion.

With statements like "Free crane delivery....sweet! " certainly shows me that alot of consumers continue to not "get it".

 
Get what? That a dealer who owns several stores throughout the state, moves a significant amout opf product  and sub contracts out all thier deliveries to a crane fleet, , that they can provide crane deliveries at a rate that rivals smaller dealers standard delivery?  I dunno, telling a customer that , hey shoping with us is like getting free crane service when compare the total price and package to other dealers?  Sure it's not "free"  but if you bought the same package for the other guy and needed a crane, you might pay $250 more.  Sounds good to me.

We've got a discount furniture store chain around here that is bombarding the market with the message "hey, we don't offer Free Delivery...Becasue nothing is free! The other guys may tell you it's free, but they're ripping you off!  Come on People! "  IT works, he sells a lot of low end product to folks thinking they're getting a deal. It's a wonderful marketing set up. However, the  fact is, the other guys, who do offer "free devliery" move so much product,  in such high volumes and have a business model that allows them to maintain a delivery fleet they can offer a higher quality prodcut, with  delivery at a total  price that's comptitive to the other guy. If you need delivry don't shop the discount guys.  See?

Some folks just don't get that.

[Spatech_tuo]

I'm sorry but I feel most of you don't get it, that's why I continue to educate the consumers on this board. While shopping I learned early the Spa industry is a very screwed up, dirty business. Lots of lies being told. This market is much worse than the used car market in my opinion.

With statements like "Free crane delivery....sweet! " certainly shows me that alot of consumers continue to not "get it".

So you're the educator of the consumers? The reality is you may get it in some area but you're as omniscient as you think. In this case you are correct, there is no "free crane delivery". Rather it is should state that it is "included" but hey, that's salesmanship. I know you want to think you're one step ahead of everyone else by understanding that but believe it on not I think almost all consumers understand that "free" really means "included" in such a case. My 11 yr old son brought that up a not long ago when he saw a sign for something like that and while I'd like to think he's the next Einstein I do believe it's commonly understood. BTW, yes, the cover is also always "free" and I think almost everyone "gets" that too.

[drewstar]

I'm sorry but I feel most of you don't get it, that's why I continue to educate the consumers

Now who does that sound like?  

[Spatech_tuo]

I'm sorry but I feel most of you don't get it, that's why I continue to educate the consumers

Now who does that sound like?  

Yes, he does come off as a disciple of the Spa Narcissist.

[sledjunkie]

Listen guys -

This forum is great. Most members are knowledgeable and provide valuable information as it relates to hot tubs.

However the reason some of my posts are the way they are is because of the overall forum mentality.
It is overrun by Spa salesman, and their tactics and verbage is that of a spa salesman, looking out for their own brand and persuading potential tubs owners to their own brand.

New members who join and are seeking advice (which tub is better), pricing, etc are from members, who again most are in spa sales. Now I will admit alot of members are also not spa salesman, however reading the forum the last couple of months I can tell you that since the spa industry sales staff have created the trend here,  alot (not all) of you simply repeat statements that your fellow spa salesman have create awhile back. Example "Your dealer is important".

Some of the advice these spa salesman give are valuable, but most of them one sided and aren't looking out for the consumer, but rather themselves or their brand.

This message is for all new hot tub consumers, please remember this forum is loaded with spa salesman, who will one way or another try and persuade you. Don't buy into it. Look out for yourself when shopping. Pick apart the statements made here and take the valuable product information only. Separate opinion from fact. And most of all get your facts straight.

[Repeat_Offender]

I'm new here but I think you might be underestimating the general membership. I've read hundreds of posts from ordinary owners like myself and found them to be very knowledgable as well as astute both of the products they buy and the salespeople they deal with. We're all adults here, and like with any big ticket item most of us do our due diligence before purchasing.

[Guzz]

Listen guys -

This forum is great. Most members are knowledgeable and provide valuable information as it relates to hot tubs.

However the reason some of my posts are the way they are is because of the overall forum mentality.
It is overrun by Spa salesman, and their tactics and verbage is that of a spa salesman, looking out for their own brand and persuading potential tubs owners to their own brand.

New members who join and are seeking advice (which tub is better), pricing, etc are from members, who again most are in spa sales. Now I will admit alot of members are also not spa salesman, however reading the forum the last couple of months I can tell you that since the spa industry sales staff have created the trend here,  alot (not all) of you simply repeat statements that your fellow spa salesman have create awhile back. Example "Your dealer is important".

Some of the advice these spa salesman give are valuable, but most of them one sided and aren't looking out for the consumer, but rather themselves or their brand.

This message is for all new hot tub consumers, please remember this forum is loaded with spa salesman, who will one way or another try and persuade you. Don't buy into it. Look out for yourself when shopping. Pick apart the statements made here and take the valuable product information only. Separate opinion from fact. And most of all get your facts straight.

Yes you are right, all the sales people in this forum are just trying to confuse you into buying their product. Mean nasty sales techniques, misinformation, you name it, it's a disgrace, now get out your check book!!

[drewstar]

It's a web forum .

I'll say this there are several folks who sell spas here that helped me out  for no other reasons than that's who they are.  Sure, it reflects well on them and their business. Good for them. Advertise through actions, not false promotions.

You take the extreme opposite approach and give the impression that everyone who has a product or service to offer you is out to take advantaage of you. That's a pretty shallow, and dare I say, ignorant attititude. Let me tellyou on some items, A quality dealer is important. Not just in hot tubs but in many things folks buy. And to what degree is it important is different for everyone.  But let me tell you, doing business with a qaulity merchant has it benifits.  

Yup. Be aware, educate yourself., shop around, compare, listen to what they have to say about thier products, ask questions.... it's the right thing to do.  

so, you had your tub what for 3 months now?  8-)
 

[sledjunkie]

Yes about 3 months.

Why do you ask?

[drewstar]

Because I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Because many of your posts you state your opion as if it were fact.  Some folks just comming here take what you are saying as being the voice of expereince.  You know, when you talk about winter operations, heat effficenies, cleaning and draining, crane deliveries, warrenty work, value of a dealer......all that stuff. And yet, you are here to educate consumers and expose all salemen as liars. It's kind of funny....veyr funny,  that you'd call pros in  the industry who have proven themselves   liars.  Because you yourself have very little experince, yet are convinced that  others are tyring to mislead you.  

Noob is a word that comes to mind.

[Spatech_tuo]

I'm new here but I think you might be underestimating the general membership. I've read hundreds of posts from ordinary owners like myself and found them to be very knowledgable as well as astute both of the products they buy and the salespeople they deal with. We're all adults here, and like with any big ticket item most of us do our due diligence before purchasing.

Well said. The problem I have with Sledjunkie is only in his pompous "I'm here to educate the common man from the evil empire as I am all knowing" rhetoric. He may be well informed as a comsumer but he makes it seem like he's figured out that we really didn't land on the moon and he has uncovered the facts!! Give us a break already and stand in line with the many other informed people on this site (and I doubt he'd be in the front of that line as people who are closed minded only learn so much). I hate to be so bothered by his posts so much but I find them to be ridiculous (I grew up with a know-it-all older brother, it irks me).

[imp etc]

Well now that the original topic has been well and truly hijacked . . .

I for one am glad to have found a forum that is populated by people who are knowledgeable about the subject. If I want to know about Lutherans I'll ask Rev Larry or someone who is a Lutheran, right? Why would I not go to someone who deals with hot tubs day in/out to ask questions about them? Sheesh yeah, they have a self-interest in providing the answer but what's wrong with that?

Not to mention I've seen folks express their own concerns about their products as well - wasn't it stuart who was so vocal about his own line of spa and their customer service? and the Doc sure passed up an opportunity to sell me a wooden tub - heck I'm even in his neighborhood. Go figure . . .

When I'm in a position to "sell" someone on something (pretty often at work) the last thing I want to do is convince them to "buy" something that won't work for them. In fact I've often told people that what they had in mind would make them unhappy, and "sold" them something less costly that was right for them. Unhappy customers can make your day pretty darn tough, dontcha know . . .

I'm pretty sure that folks who come looking for information have been around the block a few times because:
- a thread a while back indicated that age-wise we're mostly "mature" individuals, more or less experienced at evaluating info and making decisions for ourselves
- if we're mostly homeowners and have a few grand to throw into a project like buying a spa, it's likely we know about buying stuff, and have encountered quite a few sales pitches in the process

Finally, sledjunkie, it's pretty clear to me that you're "hard-selling" a point of view here, just like I can recognize when one of the "real" sales people is doing so. If you don't like "sales" maybe you should spend time on something that makes you happier? Just a thought . . .

[drewstar]

The good reverend just wants to convert you to Lutherism.  You have to be careful with him. He's a tricky son of a gun.  

Just like those moonies and scientologists.

Sometimes I wish Spa Doc sold tinfoil hats too.  

[grumpy]

Well now that the original topic has been well and truly hijacked . . .

I for one am glad to have found a forum that is populated by people who are knowledgeable about the subject.

I agree imp etc,  my topic was hijacked  

[dkersten]

Listen guys -

However the reason some of my posts are the way they are is because of the overall forum mentality.
It is overrun by Spa salesman, and their tactics and verbage is that of a spa salesman, looking out for their own brand and persuading potential tubs owners to their own brand.

New members who join and are seeking advice (which tub is better), pricing, etc are from members, who again most are in spa sales. Now I will admit alot of members are also not spa salesman, however reading the forum the last couple of months I can tell you that since the spa industry sales staff have created the trend here,  alot (not all) of you simply repeat statements that your fellow spa salesman have create awhile back. Example "Your dealer is important".

Some of the advice these spa salesman give are valuable, but most of them one sided and aren't looking out for the consumer, but rather themselves or their brand.

This message is for all new hot tub consumers, please remember this forum is loaded with spa salesman, who will one way or another try and persuade you. Don't buy into it. Look out for yourself when shopping. Pick apart the statements made here and take the valuable product information only. Separate opinion from fact. And most of all get your facts straight.

First off, I am sorry to see this thread get jacked like this.  Second, thanks for the pic Terminator.. I have been missing those lately..

I found this site when I started shopping for a hot tub a few months ago, and stuck with it because I find that the "forum mentality" is that people tend to answer questions honestly with almost no "my brand is better than your brand".  Look at posts when people are asking about a specific model.. most times there are only a few replies from those that have experience with that particular model, either as a salesperson or as a consumer.  Occasionally someone will chime in with a "you can get brand x model z for that price", and even if the person is somewhat self serving in their statement, it still helps the person asking the question because they now know that there is another hot tub in that price range with similar features.  If they already knew it, they can disregard the information.  

In searching out information that was not tainted, all I found was a few websites with very brand specific information, which was not what I was looking for.  This one has been invaluable to me.  

Occasionally someone will ask for advice, and a dealer discovers that the potential customer is in their area and tells them to come in and check out their product, but if I asked about it and a local dealer I was unfamiliar with posted that he had a shop, and invited me to come look at his product, I would be happy about it.  The thing is, there are enough people here with expertise as either consumers or sellers, that if someone tried to mislead me here and get me into their shop, the community would jump all over it.  

Yes, I do see that some hot tub dealers are slimier than car salesmen, but there are also many reputable dealers that run a well respected store, and many of those kind of dealers visit this forum regularly.  

Some people choose to not think too much about the distribution of their dollar when they purchase something, and others overanylize it too much.  The bottom line is, if someone thinks they got a good deal, then they did.  Many people come here and ask if a particular model, with particular extras is a good deal at a particular price.. As long as someone doesnt come along and say "no way, that dealer is raking you over the coals at that price", then the answer to the question is, if you are happy with the deal, then its a good deal.  If the deal includes a way to get the tub set up, then that is awesome.  I dont really care whether the dealer made $500 off me when I bought my tub, or $2000.. the bottom line is I was happy with his quote after he sharpened his pencil a little, and I got what I wanted for the price I wanted.  

Now, as to the original thread.. are we gonna see some pictures of the finished product?  It doesnt even have to be full of scantily clad ladies.. although that would be cool too.