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By the way, Vinny is obviously one of the good guys, a consumer helping others. He just doesn't have any reason to defend a proprietary system based on (IMO) marginal science. I'm guessing he is just frustrated because everybody wants a hassle free maintenance system that uses little or no chlorine, but then complains when it doesn't work, or dealers add their own wrinkles to address problems their customers encounter and it becomes confusing. IMO, Vinny is right, systems that rely more on oxidizers than sanitizers are risky. If you want a consistent system, based on science, not marketing fluff, the "Vermonter" system everone talks about is the way to go. Ask just about any consumer that has tried more than one approach, not somebody selling/defending the system they sell. If confusion about maintenance is the only thing keeping your friends from buying a hot tub, steer them to rhtubs.com for the info.
I would recommend keeping track of what you are doing to the water and if numerous people are caring for the chemicals... have some kind of clipboard to let each other know what has been done. This will also help your spa professional know hwat has been happening with your spa by giving them a good guideline of the chemical/usage history when you bring in a water sample.
Well I would think that HS knows their own tubs.
QuoteWell I would think that HS knows their own tubs.It's not a question of whether HS or any other manufacturer knows their own tubs...it's a question of whether you know your own water characteristics out of the tap. You have to know your water in order to maintain your water properly. Generalizations can be made regarding water from a municipal utility (though there are some differences there as well) but well water will stand on it's own from region to region. Vermonter's regimen is an excellent starting point but cannot be strictly applied to every instance without a bit of tailoring. And, certainly, there is more than 1 way to maintain fresh water...dichlor, bromine, baqua (<adding personal remark here> ugh!) for sanitizers; dichlor and MPS for shock (buffered and unbuffered MPS); minerals (copper, silver, N2, etc.) for sanitizer support, and ozone for sanitizer/shock support (depending on who you talk to). These myriad of choices are what is so confusing.Here are 4 rules that should apply generally:Use the "rule of least" when adding chems to your water. Use the least amount to maintain fresh water. If you are using a product in a general, routine manner just because someone suggested it (weekly stain and scale products come to mind...I've never needed either--my water comes nicely balanced from a municipal water supply) then you may be adding to your water unnecessarily...and adding to TDS as well.Like in horseshoes and hand gernades, close is good enough. Don't let your mind be set on getting pH, TA, CH absolutely to a certain perfect level. This would encourage over-care which drives you and the water crazy.And, accompanying the above rule, don't worry about your water's balance more than weekly. Be sure to monitor sanitizer more frequently but forget about pH, TA, CH measures except for once a week.And KISS. Find a routine that is simple. Once again, I highly recommend Vermonter's regimen as a starting point.
QuoteBy the way, Vinny is obviously one of the good guys, a consumer helping others. He just doesn't have any reason to defend a proprietary system based on (IMO) marginal science. I'm guessing he is just frustrated because everybody wants a hassle free maintenance system that uses little or no chlorine, but then complains when it doesn't work, or dealers add their own wrinkles to address problems their customers encounter and it becomes confusing. IMO, Vinny is right, systems that rely more on oxidizers than sanitizers are risky. If you want a consistent system, based on science, not marketing fluff, the "Vermonter" system everone talks about is the way to go. Ask just about any consumer that has tried more than one approach, not somebody selling/defending the system they sell. If confusion about maintenance is the only thing keeping your friends from buying a hot tub, steer them to rhtubs.com for the info.Webini and Reese, Webini I don't mean to pick on your chemical maintenance routine but Vinny is one of the good guys on this site and has a very good understanding of hot tub water chems. He is concerned that the use of MPS as a primary treatment offers very little in the way of a daily sanitizer. Reese,I thought your post was well thought out and accurate
I have also had both my boys get ear infections at the same time after dunking their heads under water ... I then realized that Vermonter's method is great for soaking but has limitations as well - although I still use it and it works well for me.
I do plan on putting a Prozone PZ1 ozonator in the tub when the warranty expires - it supposedly puts out a heck of a lot more than a Del ... this is not what you're discussing but may have some impact on the bacteria in the tub.
I know that all the respected voices here saying it does something are hard to ignore. I just wish they had some measurables to disprove the scientific issues. Until then, since my water does just fine without it, I'll stay in the skeptic column.Perhaps when you get ready to upgrade, you should look into the Thermospas ozone system. The other thread on Thermo got me curious, so I went to their website to look around and saw that their system, complete with mixing chamber and charcoal canister to control offgassing allows you to reduce chemicals by 90%!