Sundance vs Artesian; newbie needs help

[ctkathy]

 

Also all major manufacturers are giving you clean water so Sundance don't have nothing on Artesian there either! My water is as clean and sparkling and hot ... that was a dealer thing hopefully you weren't infering that an Artesian spa can't keep water clean and hot! It's amazing what sales people will say!


I never said the Artesian spa couldn't keep water clean.  I believe I said that the dealer I visited had a Piper Glen that had very cloudy water.  This spa was located right where customers entered the store.  She said to call her the day before we were going to come in to wet test so they could clean up the water.  We'll probably try the Artesian before we definitely decide on the Maxxus, but right now I am heavily leaning towards the Sundance Maxxus.  

Thanks for the info about the pumps.  I like the idea of individual pumps and don't really care if my electric bill goes up $10-$20 a month for our hot tub project.

[Vinny]

My sarcasim wasn't towards you, it was pointed at spa girl salesperson! Sorry ...  you got in the way!

[jcmsrv]

Hi,
I have owned a piper glen since may 2005 with no problems at all. keeping water clean is simple. I tried all major bands sold in our area, about 6 or 7 different tubs. Piper Glen was the most expensive but I feel it was worth what I spent, about $10,800.00 We are in the process of building second home on lake in NH and plan on another Artesian tub there. I would not take anything away from Sundance, but I liked the artesian better

Any question, e-mail me.....jcmsrv@yahoo.com

john mcdonough


Vinney............how are you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ctkathy]

I did Google  Bullfrog and Arctic and the nearest dealers are an hour or more away from me.  Thanks for the info, though.

[mark_in_calif]

So i havent posted in a while continue to lurk and Im hoping that my comments can give you one more data point to chew on.

I've owned an Artesian Dove Canyon (lounger version of  the piper glen) for just under a year now.   When we were shopping a year ago, we looked at all the major brands and larger models (ie: sundance maxxmus/optima; hot springs grandee; jacuzzi 385, coleman, etc, etc.)

Anyway as many have said, wet testing was the key for us and we wet tested them all over a 3-4 month period.  I am 6' 4" and my wife is  5" 10" and for us we found the best fit  to be the Artesian, plus we loved the individual seat controls.

Anyway, in the last year we've enjoyed the tub about 2-3x a week, havent had one issue at all and have had really good luck keeping the tub clear and balanced.

[hymbaw]

I never said the Artesian spa couldn't keep water clean.  I believe I said that the dealer I visited had a Piper Glen that had very cloudy water.  This spa was located right where customers entered the store.  She said to call her the day before we were going to come in to wet test so they could clean up the water.  We'll probably try the Artesian before we definitely decide on the Maxxus, but right now I am heavily leaning towards the Sundance Maxxus.  
 

For the record I never said anything negative about Artesian. I suggested that in the scenario that you described Sundance is your best choice. I say that because the Artesian dealer was spewing blatant falsehoods about his competition and can't be bothered by maintaining hot, CLEAN water in his floor models. Not the best first impression in my book. What other defficiencies lurk below the surface? I'd rather not find out, that's all.

Good Luck and may you find the tub that's right for you.

[tony]

Don't worry about the dealer. Let the wet test, features, and price make your decision. They are both quality manufacters so no worries there. Everyone on this forum rants about dealers being important. I couldn't disagree more. Funny how all of them just end up defending their brand.

I have to completely disagree.  The dealer can be just as important as the manufacturer.   For the most part, anything that happens to the spa will be handled by the dealer.  A good manufacturer coupled with a bad dealer is no better than a bad manufacturer with a good dealer.  Just my opinion.

[clover]

Well, of course being a sundance lover, I must get my hand in this cookie jar! I sold against Artesian in California, ........commercial and negative jabs........, back to the point.. The spas have more pumps than Sundance, having one pump per station on some models, which is nice, but will cost you more on the electric bill......It sounds like your Artesian Salesperson is trying to talk down a spa he or she doesn't know very much about. It also sounds like your Sundance person isn't telling you the things they should be telling you in a Sundance presentation.

In closing, my vote is definately for Sundance!   But, I'm a tad biased since I've been working with Sundance (and Jacuzzi) for 4 years, and everyone in my family owns a Sundance.

With all due respect to the sellers on this forum who try to do a very good job to support their brand, and respecting SpaGirlAZ comments and admission that she is in fact a "tad bit biased", the gibberish that they all put out is like the little angel on one shoulder and the little devil on the other, both whispering into your ear.  This forum appears to be nothing more than psychological marketing warfare.  No wonder we all get confused.
For instance, how can 5 motors in the Artesian Piper Glen cost more to operate if you can choose which seat you want to sit in and turn on ONLY that seat, rather than powering up several seats or zones.  Why would you have to turn the other 4 pumps on?  If 2 people are using the spa, turn only the 2 seats on they are using, IF the spa has 5 or 6 people in the spa once a year, turn ALL the motors on if you must.  But the logic of 1 or 2  or even 3 motors in a Maxxus operating multiple jets and seats, how can that be more energy efficient.

EVERY spa out there you can look at, someone will say good things about it and 10 times that number will have something negative to say about it because there are far many more competitors who want to plug in a commercial for their particular brand and take negative jabs to inject negative innuendos and undermine any other choice than their favorite brand.

Take it with a grain of salt and anything you choose to buy, you will no doubt enjoy for a long time.  Certainly there are "unhappy owners" of every brand for one reason or another.  

[Kyle]

Don't buy into the 5 pumps garbage.  They just use 5 extremely small pumps.  You still have to fit them under UL standards.



That's 40 or 46 amps )+/- 10%.  

Yeah try replacing 5 pumps in 7 or 8 years.  You probably can't even reach them.  Marketing geniuses.  They are showroom lights and story.  I disagree with design.  

[Vinny]

Don't buy into the 5 pumps garbage.  They just use 5 extremely small pumps.  You still have to fit them under UL standards.



That's 40 or 46 amps )+/- 10%.  

Yeah try replacing 5 pumps in 7 or 8 years.  You probably can't even reach them.  Marketing geniuses.  They are showroom lights and story.  I disagree with design.  

And what company do you work for?

I don't know how long the pumps will last but I'm sure with proper water chemistry they all won't go "poof" in 7 or 8 years.

[barshnik]

Don't buy into the 5 pumps garbage.  They just use 5 extremely small pumps.  You still have to fit them under UL standards.



That's 40 or 46 amps )+/- 10%.  

Yeah try replacing 5 pumps in 7 or 8 years.  You probably can't even reach them.  Marketing geniuses.  They are showroom lights and story.  I disagree with design.  

And what company do you work for?

I don't know how long the pumps will last but I'm sure with proper water chemistry they all won't go "poof" in 7 or 8 years.

I've done a little spa service, I'd estimate 9-10 years out of most any pump before seals wear out, usually requiring the pump head be rebuilt or changed, so I'd still consider service access as an important point.  Water chemistry doesn't have much to do with seal wear, BTW, but it will affect heater elements a lot...

John F
LV, NV

[Vinny]

Don't buy into the 5 pumps garbage.  They just use 5 extremely small pumps.  You still have to fit them under UL standards.



That's 40 or 46 amps )+/- 10%.  

Yeah try replacing 5 pumps in 7 or 8 years.  You probably can't even reach them.  Marketing geniuses.  They are showroom lights and story.  I disagree with design.  

And what company do you work for?

I don't know how long the pumps will last but I'm sure with proper water chemistry they all won't go "poof" in 7 or 8 years.

I've done a little spa service, I'd estimate 9-10 years out of most any pump before seals wear out, usually requiring the pump head be rebuilt or changed, so I'd still consider service access as an important point.  Water chemistry doesn't have much to do with seal wear, BTW, but it will affect heater elements a lot...

John F
LV, NV

So with that knowledge, doing a rebuild at say 6 years may be the prudent thing to do. In my industry it's called preventative maintenance - is it cheap to repair pump seals?

As far as water chemistry affecting seals -that's what my dealer said how they can determine bad water chemistry - they look at the seals.

I wonder how may other spa techs have seen the seals go at a certain age. Nobody has really reported that as far as I have seen.

[The_real_Clown_Shoes]

Pump wear and tear is going to be model dependent.  The more reputable a company, the chances are the better jet pump they're going to use.  I don't like the idea of having five jet pumps in my spa.  Chances are good they won't go bad, but there's still a chance.

[windsurfdog]

With all due respect to all who have posted, the number of pumps, power of the pumps, etc., etc., etc. really is not the point.  The REAL point is how the tubs feel.  If you get into an Artesian or a Sundance or any other tub, each tub will feel different...some better than others...TO YOU.  Let your wet test be your guide and forget about everything else relating to pumps and pump efficiency.

Now for energy efficiency, i.e., running 1 smaller pump for 1 seat or a larger pump for two seats, the actual energy usage will not be that different.  The biggest difference you will find regarding energy usage is how well the tub is built and insulated...and I don't intend to start a trivial FF v. TP debate...either is fine if well constructed.  Another factor for efficiency is cover construction...a lousy, ill fitting cover will cost you more in energy usage.  And one more factor is how often/how long the tub is used.  Certainly a tub that is used more will use more energy.

If you get a quality tub from a quality dealer--a tub that you have wet tested and are happy with the therapy, you will be happy even if it costs you $20-$40 more in electricity a month.  Forget $10/month...unless you don't use it.  And if it goes over $40-$50/month, you've either purchased a lower quality tub or you have teenagers.... 8-)

(P.S.--Vinny, can I still be your friend? )

[Vinny]

With all due respect to all who have posted, the number of pumps, power of the pumps, etc., etc., etc. really is not the point.  The REAL point is how the tubs feel.  If you get into an Artesian or a Sundance or any other tub, each tub will feel different...some better than others...TO YOU.  Let your wet test be your guide and forget about everything else relating to pumps and pump efficiency.

Now for energy efficiency, i.e., running 1 smaller pump for 1 seat or a larger pump for two seats, the actual energy usage will not be that different.  The biggest difference you will find regarding energy usage is how well the tub is built and insulated...and I don't intend to start a trivial FF v. TP debate...either is fine if well constructed.  Another factor for efficiency is cover construction...a lousy, ill fitting cover will cost you more in energy usage.  And one more factor is how often/how long the tub is used.  Certainly a tub that is used more will use more energy.

If you get a quality tub from a quality dealer--a tub that you have wet tested and are happy with the therapy, you will be happy even if it costs you $20-$40 more in electricity a month.  Forget $10/month...unless you don't use it.  And if it goes over $40-$50/month, you've either purchased a lower quality tub or you have teenagers.... 8-)

(P.S.--Vinny, can I still be your friend? )

Once again windsurfdog is the voice of reason! And what he says is true. But to discount any tub due to some dealer interjected crap is doing any shopper a disservice IMO. That was my original post I believe until it became a Sundance induced feeding frenzy (WSD you been through that battle before).


And yes, you can still be my friend!