Metal Gon-Do I need it?

[kervis]

I've always wanted to ask Brewman, Bill, and Vinny about this.  I just checked on-line with my local water dept. concerning what is in my water.  I assume, since I am on city water-all from an aquifer,  that my hose water should be the same. (Twin Cities suburb)

I have .62ppm copper--allowable level for action to be taken is 1.3
I have 4 ppb lead-------allowable level for action to be taken is  15
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17.2 ppb=nickel
5.4   ppm=sodium
15 ppm=sulfate

Do these levels require me use Metal Gon?  Does anyone know what the levels need to be?   [smiley=undecided.gif]The directions on the bottle say "sequesters iron, copper, and other minerals".  Heck, I could change the water every month if I didn't have to add a bottle of Metal Gon! [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

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[Vinny]

I really don't know! My water is pretty good coming out of the tap and when my dealer tested my water she said I didn't have any metal to worry about.

I think metal gon is an agent that stops the metal in the water from reacting to the chlorine or bromine that's added.

Have you ever not put metal gon into the water on a fill? If so what happened? It may be cheap enough to just keep using it as an insurance that whatever metals that are in the water will not harm your tub. I use calcium for this reason - I add enough to give me the minimal normal amount so that my heating element and everything else is protected from soft water - is it needed probably not but I don't want to find out.

Sorry I can't be any help!

[Brewman]

I use Brilliance's metal and scale control.  Not sure if I absolutely need it, but my dealer recommended it, and in the grand scheme of spa costs, it's not all that expensive.  
 My water is very clear and I have no scale issues, so I guess I can tell myself it's working.  It certainly doesn't seem to be harming anything.  
  I'm a little reluctant to stop using it, just because I have such nice water (finally!) I don't want to upset the apple cart.

Sorry I can't give you more of a definitive answer, either.

You probably could change the water every month, but I'm not sure it would help anything.  You'd still be exposing your spa to whatever was in the water, plus the cost of the water itself, and the energy to more frequently heat it from tap temperature to soaking temperature would probably wash out on the cost of any metal be gone stuff.
 
What city do you live in? I'm in Prior Lake, and we get our water from 2 aquifers, but the city treats it to some extent.  

[kervis]

I'm over in Stillwater.  The city treats our water too.  I brought in water samples a week apart, before the tub was delivered.  First I brought in the sink sample so I would have an idea of where I was starting.  Then I realized I would be filling the tub from the outside hose and brought in a sample of that water a week later.

My pH is 7.7 out of my sink and my hose.

The TA out of sink  was 226
Calcium out of sink was 287.

The TA out of hose was 184
The Calcium out of hose was 245.

I don't know if I didn't let the hose water run enough to clean the old water out before I brought in a sample.  Maybe the water did actually fluctuate that much in a week,  maybe the testing was off at the store?  

Like all of you, I am trying to minimize chemical usage where I can.

 Hey, does that bottle of Metal Gon keep working until my next water change?  I just was realizing all of the times I am adding more water to the tub.

 [smiley=dankk2.gif]

[The_real_Clown_Shoes]

I'm skeptical of Metal-Gon and other products that require you to use a whole bottle's worth at a time.

Try Stain & Scale from Bioguard... you use less and it does the job just as well.  That seems like a very low amount of metals to be using a whole bottle of Metal-Gon.  A few tablespoons a week of S&S will prevent any and all metal problems.

[The_Bends]

Metal-Gon is a sequestering agent
 
A sequestering agent is a chemical that combines with metal ions to help keep them in solution and prevent them from falling on the spa or pool’s surface and leaving a stain.

If you are in doubt if you need the metal gon, don't use it for a fill.  If your metals are high, you will notice a slight tint to the water.  Look for a reddish tint to the water, yellow or brownish, or green tint, especially after shocking, or dosing with chlorine.  


High calcium levels tend to precipitate, leaving a scaling effect on the walls of the spa.  Af you experience scaling, a white chalky residue, maybe a small dose of Clarifier would be a start.  

[tony]

Metal-Gon is a sequestering agent
 
A sequestering agent is a chemical that combines with metal ions to help keep them in solution and prevent them from falling on the spa or pool’s surface and leaving a stain.

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Yes, Metal-Gon is a sequestering agent and does a different job than a stain and scale product.

[Brewman]

Right.  The metal and scale control product I use calls for a weekly dose of 1.5 ounces for my spa.  Bottle lasts a few months at my rate of useage.

[kervis]

That sounds similar to LT Defender, "designed to prevent scale formation, aid in the removal of existing scale, and to help prevent precipitation of dissolved solids"  Are those solids other metals?

"Defender is designed for weekly maintenance.  Use Metal Gon during start up to prevent stains from other metals."

Thanks for confirming that scale is from Calcium.  I recently had a service call and the young man said to always use Defender to control scale as he sees a lot of issues that could have been prevented had owners kept up on it.

I do like The_Bends experiment of  trying a re-fill without MG and paying attention to any tints in the water.
Perhaps my weekly Defender would be all I need or I switch over to the Biogard or Brilliance that others are using as they specifically say they control metal as well as scale.

I too, didn't like the idea of just dumping a whole bottle of stuff in the spa if I really didn't need it especially if they tell me to add other protectors for very similar weekly maintenance as well.  Seems like a big double dose.

We'll see how it goes....Thanks much!

[Gil]

I was told by LT that since I had well water to use the entire bottle even though our well water is very good by most standards and I only have a 320 gallon spa.  We don't have a filter and don't need a water softener system for our well water however, I don't actually know the true metal content.  The Metal Gon bottle doesn't say it, but it is designed for 300-500 gallons of water treatment.  I too was told that Metal Gon and stain and scale products are different.  Defender is what was recommended for me to use for stain and scale control.  Pool Magnet from Bioguard and Metal Free from Natural Chemistry are the only other products that I have seen that seem to be comparable to Metal Gon.  I'm sure there are others.  
Anyone know if using a filter when filling would lessen or eliminate the use of metal sequestering products?  

Take Care.
Gil

[tony]

That sounds similar to LT Defender, "designed to prevent scale formation, aid in the removal of existing scale, and to help prevent precipitation of dissolved solids"  Are those solids other metals?

"Defender is designed for weekly maintenance.  Use Metal Gon during start up to prevent stains from other metals."

Dissolved solids mainly refers to calcium.  Defender is a great product and cheap insurance.  Two oz every week or every other week.

Metal Gon is also cheap insurance.  Whole bottle each drain and fill.

[The_Bends]

Anyone know if using a filter when filling would lessen or eliminate the use of metal sequestering products?  

Take Care.
Gil

Absolutely.  Micropure makes a pre-filter that attaches to the end of the garden hose that filters out bacterium, minerals, metals, and other elements before they are introduced into the spa.  

Defender, if I am not mistaken is being discontinued?  In any case, it is a polyacrlyamide capable of holding minerals in suspension.  The downside is that a high ionic concentration, like salt, will allow those particles to come out of suspension.  

Try the water without the chemicals, and if you have high concentrations, and notice staining or scaling, than add them later.  Less is more!