Comments on Arctic spas?

[NorthWoodsDipper]

Spa family,

I am soooooo close to purchasing an Arctic Summit Ultra.  Comments from other Arctic owners?  How do you like your purchase?

Steven-

[Styx555]

I am also close to purchasing. What have you negotiated price to thus far?

[cooltoy2000]

Did you look at any other spas? Did you wet test? I would also call independent spa repair companies and ask them which spas they have to work on the least.

I looked into Arctic Spas when I was looking to buy. From my research I thought that they were above average, but in my opinion overpriced what what you got (not hugely). Then I did research on the whole insulation issue and chose not to go with Arctic.

[anne]

Please read my review: just hit the "reviews" icon at the top of the page, and look for the most recent Arctic review- I think 5/06. I do really love my tub, but all of the detail that I dont want to type again is there- kinda long- sorry. I'm also happy to answer any specific questions you have, but I'm just a well informed owner, not an expert.

As far as insulation goes, I also have been very happy with how little impact my tub has on the energy bill. I live in CA, so the tub will rarely have to stay at 103 while it is freezing out, either! Full foam vs others- what a mess. But someone here summed it up pretty well, saying (roughly) FF vs TP is not this issue- it is how well either one is made. OH, please nobody come after me........

[NorthWoodsDipper]

Please read my review: just hit the "reviews" icon at the top of the page, and look for the most recent Arctic review- I think 5/06. I do really love my tub, but all of the detail that I dont want to type again is there- kinda long- sorry. I'm also happy to answer any specific questions you have, but I'm just a well informed owner, not an expert.

As far as insulation goes, I also have been very happy with how little impact my tub has on the energy bill. I live in CA, so the tub will rarely have to stay at 103 while it is freezing out, either! Full foam vs others- what a mess. But someone here summed it up pretty well, saying (roughly) FF vs TP is not this issue- it is how well either one is made. OH, please nobody come after me........

Anne,

Did you get the Arctic Ozone, or Peak Ozone?  Comments on either?

Steven-

[Steve]

Did you look at any other spas? Did you wet test? I would also call independent spa repair companies and ask them which spas they have to work on the least.

I looked into Arctic Spas when I was looking to buy. From my research I thought that they were above average, but in my opinion overpriced what what you got (not hugely). Then I did research on the whole insulation issue and chose not to go with Arctic.

Nothing personal but I really question the intelligence of a post like this? Some decent advice with a small mix of praise yet the bottom line cooltoy was that you were sold by some BS sales pitch sorry to say! Is one REALLY better than another? I would love an open debate with you on this as I have many years of experience on this matter. I'm serious when I ask for an open, serious debate based on data and intelligence. Opinions and marketing not included...

I don't work for Arctic and in fact, sold against them head to head for many years but to suggest to a consumer that they consider another brand based on the insulation method any one manufacturer uses is extremely weak advice.

Arctic makes a good product with exceptional support from their dealers and there are very few unsatisfied owners of this product.

Answer one question for me cooltoy and this will determine if a debate is something we need to consider...

What are the benefits of full foam and is there a proven cost savings to this type of insulation over a thermal lock design? Please reply with something more than an opinion or what you once heard a salesman of another product tell you... Thanks

Steve

[Tman122]

Any one who buys a Hot Tub based on insulation method is making a mistake and has been sucked into a marketing stratagy. There are several great brands made by manufacturers that make a comfortable, dependable, energy effiecient (as energy effiecient as a hot tub of water sitting outside can be) product. Arctic is included in my opinion in the top ten. If another insulation style came along that was any better you can count on alot of manufactorers jumping all over it, but it hasn't happened.

[anne]

Anne,

Did you get the Arctic Ozone, or Peak Ozone?  Comments on either?

Steven-

I got the Arctic ozone, as nobody could really explain to me how the other was better. My dealer was an idiot. I think there is more contact time in the Peak, and I do believe that that is important, from what I have learned here since then. Both were rediculously overpriced, so I decided to go with the less expensive. I am very happy with my water's clarity, but I really dont know how much the ozone contributes. I was determined to have a tub with ozone when I bought, having heard soooooo many people, including my uncle, rave about it, so I bought what I could afford.

[drewstar]

Did you look at any other spas? Did you wet test? I would also call independent spa repair companies and ask them which spas they have to work on the least.

I looked into Arctic Spas when I was looking to buy. From my research I thought that they were above average, but in my opinion overpriced what what you got (not hugely). Then I did research on the whole insulation issue and chose not to go with Arctic.

Nothing personal but I really question the intelligence of a post like this? Some decent advice with a small mix of praise yet the bottom line cooltoy was that you were sold by some BS sales pitch sorry to say! Is one REALLY better than another? I would love an open debate with you on this as I have many years of experience on this matter. I'm serious when I ask for an open, serious debate based on data and intelligence. Opinions and marketing not included...

I don't work for Arctic and in fact, sold against them head to head for many years but to suggest to a consumer that they consider another brand based on the insulation method any one manufacturer uses is extremely weak advice.

Arctic makes a good product with exceptional support from their dealers and there are very few unsatisfied owners of this product.

Answer one question for me cooltoy and this will determine if a debate is something we need to consider...

What are the benefits of full foam and is there a proven cost savings to this type of insulation over a thermal lock design? Please reply with something more than an opinion or what you once heard a salesman of another product tell you... Thanks

Steve

Oh,  can I jump in?

I'll ask the same thing toward you (the sound of horses being beaten is heard in the distance) Are there any proven  cost savings to Thermal lock over Full foam?  The only data I've seen is several years old and was discredit via the cover issue. ( The Artic tub was a few pennies less in energy, but this was attributed to the cover, not the thermal lock).  

But the benifits of Full Foam?

It's insualation method is not depedant on running the pumps. It requires NO energy to  work.  A thermal tub requires the air barrier to be kept at the same, or greater temperature of the water.  TO do this, they are inherently dependend on running the pumps.  the Thermal crowd touts this as a benift, saying "more filtration!" To me, I think it's a flawed design, as I have no water issues and not dependant on running the pumps.

 Another downside is,  the tub will actually get hotter when you use it, due to the pumps running. In another thread this was touted as a feature. I saw it really as a flaw.  If I don't want to have my jets on, the Artic will switch to heating the water via the heater, and since the air barrier is being heated by the pumps will work harder, use more electricty to maintian the heat.  Ie for a TP tub to be even considered efficent, the pumps must be running.

For a thermal tub to work effeicently,  it must be sealed very well. The tubs  I aw were not.  Perhaps Artic has got this down pretty good, but keep in mind, air leaks in the cabinet can be a big issue.

Side benifits of full foam: Sound insulation. Any one with a tub outside thier bedroom or on a deck will tell you,  a full foam is quiter (less sound, less vibration, and no  huge pumps  on every few hours).

Structual integrity on pipes and fittings. Less vibration. Less leaks due to joint failure.

But we've been through this all before.

The only benifit on TP is if there is a leak in the cabinet. FF requires more work to repair. However, my research when shopping indicated that majorty of leaks occur in the pump area, where they are not ff.    Leaks that did occur in the plumbing area where mostly on tubs that did not have the FF for structual suppport.  Hmmmm.  

Furthermore, most of the leaky tubs were alos of an older technolgy that used an inferior glue.

To seal the deal, and this is more from a consumer peice of mind than anything else, the # seller of hot tubs uses FF. If all the evils of FF that many of the TP crowd claim is true, they'd be tens of thousands of FF users up in arms.  The fact is, folks who have a FF tub, love them.  As a consumer,  this ment a lot to me.

Plus, I've heard from a certain texan, Giant Mutant Rats like to live inside Thermal tubs.

 

[cooltoy2000]

Did you look at any other spas? Did you wet test? I would also call independent spa repair companies and ask them which spas they have to work on the least.

I looked into Arctic Spas when I was looking to buy. From my research I thought that they were above average, but in my opinion overpriced what what you got (not hugely). Then I did research on the whole insulation issue and chose not to go with Arctic.

Nothing personal but I really question the intelligence of a post like this? Some decent advice with a small mix of praise yet the bottom line cooltoy was that you were sold by some BS sales pitch sorry to say! Is one REALLY better than another? I would love an open debate with you on this as I have many years of experience on this matter. I'm serious when I ask for an open, serious debate based on data and intelligence. Opinions and marketing not included...

I don't work for Arctic and in fact, sold against them head to head for many years but to suggest to a consumer that they consider another brand based on the insulation method any one manufacturer uses is extremely weak advice.

Arctic makes a good product with exceptional support from their dealers and there are very few unsatisfied owners of this product.

Answer one question for me cooltoy and this will determine if a debate is something we need to consider...

What are the benefits of full foam and is there a proven cost savings to this type of insulation over a thermal lock design? Please reply with something more than an opinion or what you once heard a salesman of another product tell you... Thanks

Steve

I am not sure that there is anything to debate here. I just asked if the person looked at any other spas. I see a lot of people go to the very first dealer and buy from them without looking at anything else.

I looked at about 10 different spa manufacturers when I was buying. This allowed me to see a much wider variety of spa building techniques. I was as confused as anyone at that point. So I turned to websites like this one to get educated. After reading all the arguments for and against different types of insulation, I decided that I liked the idea of full foam insulation better. It was my own decision and not a sales pitch that made choose the tub that I choose. Actually to say that someone can pitch something to me insults my intelligence, as I do not feel I am influenced by salespeople or advertising.

I considered buying an Arctic Spa, but other factors drove me away from them. I did not like the design of the seats (too angular), the would not let me wet test, the show room looked like crap and the dealer gave me bad vibes. They also have cheesy commercials on our radio stations which make them seem unprofessional.

I never said that they make a bad product, as a matter of fact from what I understand they make one of the best spas amongst that type of tub, but it was not for me, so I choose something else.

[Tom]

I considered buying an Arctic Spa, but other factors drove me away from them... They would not let me wet test, the show room looked like crap and the dealer gave me bad vibes. They also have cheesy commercials on our radio stations which make them seem unprofessional.

Please send me a private message with the name of the dealer involved.
Thanks
Tom G

[Steve]

 

Oh,  can I jump in?

I'll ask the same thing toward you (the sound of horses being beaten is heard in the distance) Are there any proven  cost savings to Thermal lock over Full foam?  The only data I've seen is several years old and was discredit via the cover issue. ( The Artic tub was a few pennies less in energy, but this was attributed to the cover, not the thermal lock).  

But the benifits of Full Foam?

It's insualation method is not depedant on running the pumps. It requires NO energy to  work.  A thermal tub requires the air barrier to be kept at the same, or greater temperature of the water.  TO do this, they are inherently dependend on running the pumps.  the Thermal crowd touts this as a benift, saying "more filtration!" To me, I think it's a flawed design, as I have no water issues and not dependant on running the pumps.

 Another downside is,  the tub will actually get hotter when you use it, due to the pumps running. In another thread this was touted as a feature. I saw it really as a flaw.  If I don't want to have my jets on, the Artic will switch to heating the water via the heater, and since the air barrier is being heated by the pumps will work harder, use more electricty to maintian the heat.  Ie for a TP tub to be even considered efficent, the pumps must be running.

For a thermal tub to work effeicently,  it must be sealed very well. The tubs  I aw were not.  Perhaps Artic has got this down pretty good, but keep in mind, air leaks in the cabinet can be a big issue.

Side benifits of full foam: Sound insulation. Any one with a tub outside thier bedroom or on a deck will tell you,  a full foam is quiter (less sound, less vibration, and no  huge pumps  on every few hours).

Structual integrity on pipes and fittings. Less vibration. Less leaks due to joint failure.

But we've been through this all before.

The only benifit on TP is if there is a leak in the cabinet. FF requires more work to repair. However, my research when shopping indicated that majorty of leaks occur in the pump area, where they are not ff.    Leaks that did occur in the plumbing area where mostly on tubs that did not have the FF for structual suppport.  Hmmmm.  

Furthermore, most of the leaky tubs were alos of an older technolgy that used an inferior glue.

To seal the deal, and this is more from a consumer peice of mind than anything else, the # seller of hot tubs uses FF. If all the evils of FF that many of the TP crowd claim is true, they'd be tens of thousands of FF users up in arms.  The fact is, folks who have a FF tub, love them.  As a consumer,  this ment a lot to me.

Plus, I've heard from a certain texan, Giant Mutant Rats like to live inside Thermal tubs.

 

I think what you’ll find within my initial post is an opportunity for some to expand their minds and consider the bigger picture. I was neither defending nor condoning any specific design. Many of us have been around a long time and I don’t pretend to offer any new, earth shattering debate on what’s been beaten to death already with the FF/TP debate. I do however, take exception to the belief that one has superior benefits over the other. I have read the examples you noted over the years many times before. I could suggest that most of those are subjective to any one design.

When in the retail game selling FF products, we had our share of noise complaints and the result of that noise has very little to do with the amount of insulation but rather the mounting of the pumps and application of the spa placement. I don’t believe there’s been any real evidence supporting that FF spas operate more quietly though that is what we’re recommended to say when selling it. I also don’t recall reading any complaints by Arctic or other non FF spa owners on this issue you bring up and I’ve been on many forums over the past 10 years. Show me a FF spa on a wood deck and I’ll show you boards that act like tuning forks with noise and vibration.

I’m aware of the study conducted by Arctic showing a slight advantage to their design concept. If this purchase comes down to saving a buck or 2 per month on heating costs regardless who suggests superiority, I suggest that the cost of the spa is likely out of their budget.

My point is that each concern you mentioned Drewstar can be construed as a benefit or detriment. Capturing residual heat from motors is good thing in sales pitch as long as it doesn’t cause temperature creep. Would the addition of adjustable vents which allow this heat to dissipate during the warmer months be a viable option? Again, my point is that both concepts work well and the rest is sales and marketing hype. The suggestion that a spa be purchased or not on this one aspect is erroneous.

Steve

[Steve]

 
I am not sure that there is anything to debate here. I just asked if the person looked at any other spas. I see a lot of people go to the very first dealer and buy from them without looking at anything else.

I looked at about 10 different spa manufacturers when I was buying. This allowed me to see a much wider variety of spa building techniques. I was as confused as anyone at that point. So I turned to websites like this one to get educated. After reading all the arguments for and against different types of insulation, I decided that I liked the idea of full foam insulation better. It was my own decision and not a sales pitch that made choose the tub that I choose. Actually to say that someone can pitch something to me insults my intelligence, as I do not feel I am influenced by salespeople or advertising.

I considered buying an Arctic Spa, but other factors drove me away from them. I did not like the design of the seats (too angular), the would not let me wet test, the show room looked like crap and the dealer gave me bad vibes. They also have cheesy commercials on our radio stations which make them seem unprofessional.

I never said that they make a bad product, as a matter of fact from what I understand they make one of the best spas amongst that type of tub, but it was not for me, so I choose something else.

Obviously, that isn't even close to what you stated on your original post. It's too bad you withheld all of that important information initially... Information that really makes a significant difference in your choice other than just the insualtion properties. Hopefully, the posts that you read that convinced you to go FF weren't only partial truths as well...

Enjoy whatever spa you purchased! Go Oilers go!

Steve

[cooltoy2000]

 
Go Oilers go!

Steve

Now I understand.

[cooltoy2000]

I considered buying an Arctic Spa, but other factors drove me away from them... They would not let me wet test, the show room looked like crap and the dealer gave me bad vibes. They also have cheesy commercials on our radio stations which make them seem unprofessional.

Please send me a private message with the name of the dealer involved.
Thanks
Tom G

I don't think that is necessary.
That was my opinion of them, not neccessaraly the many other customers that buy from them. I don't go with the crowd.
If you really wanted to know you can easily figure out from my profile where they are, if you can not, I am sure Steve can help you.