Question for the police on here

[drewstar]

when I was younger, the Commonwealth of MA allowed you to go to "Traffic School" and avoid the violation. Yea, it took 3 hours to complete,  but you got to drive in those cool simulators, AND it wasn't required to get a passing score  on  the simulator to approved for the fine waiver.  I purposely drove the simulator like it was a vidoe game and crashed into everyone.

[k9smith]

I am a policeman and the story your husband is telling you just doesn’t seem right to me. I'm not saying he is lying but it just doesn’t seem right. I can’t imagine a copper telling someone that he just pulled over that he wasn’t sure about the speed. Why write the ticket? What the officer can say is that the slowest car was going x mph and all the other cars in the pack were going faster. That would stand in court but again I can’t imagine writing tickets if I can’t verify whose speed I checked on radar. The other thing is even though the officer that pulled your husband over wrote the ticket he wont be the one in court it will be the one with the radar and he didn’t say anything to your husband because he didn’t come up to the traffic stop I’m assuming. Depending on the size of the department/city you might be able to call the prosecutors office and ask about the ticket or you could just show up at court explain your story and his driving record. If what your husband said is true he should be able to walk out without anything. The other thing is if you decide to contest it and the officer is not there they will set a new date. They don’t expect every officer to show up to traffic court because there would be no one left on the street so they wait to see which ones are contested and set a new court date.
Everything I have told you applies to my area and may not in yours but it gives you a general idea.
Joe

[drewstar]

Here in MA, too many folks were contesting tickets because they knew if the officer didn't show up they'd win by default.  THe State police are now able to send in a "Police representative" who is a trooper and has been made aware of the case and can speak on behalf of the officer.

[LtDan]

If it is like our court system, being in the right has very little to do with it. The system is set to make  you give up and pay the fine its easier.  Lt. Dan, do you remember Judge Ann Taylor?  That was one worthless human being.

I sure do. She was actually very police friendly, went to her house several times in the wee hours to get search warrants signed. Some of the judges are down right unfriendly when that happens, she never was.

As far as the ticket, one of the easiest ways it to meet with the prosecutor beforehand (call ahead), ask if he is willing to reduce to an equipment violation that carries no points. The city gets their money, your hubby, who probably was speeding, gets to pay a little cash but no points and everyone gets to feel that justice was served.

[Bonibelle]

I know Joe, it doesn't seem to make sense to me either. That is why I said to my husband that the officer wouldn't have taken the time to ticket anyone if they didn't have evidence they all were speeding. I think my husband probably argued that it would be tough to take that road at 42 MPH...which is why the posted limit is 25!  He sent in the money today so it is up to him to resolve this, hopefully with as little damage to his driving record as possible. I told him for his punishment he needs to explain in detail how this happened..to my kids at dinner tonight.  And I am going out to spend an amount equal to his ticket on something perfectly stupid because he fibbed and tried to hide it from me.  ..

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

You guys pay the fine BEFORE going to court? This makes no sense at all. Innocent till proven guilty. And if you're going to court to contest the ticket, you're innocent until judgement is handed down. I'm liking CA more and more. First they add a "convenience fee" to the initial cost of the ticket if you pay by mail. Simply going to court gets this "fee dropped". The cop that wrote the ticket also HAS to show up in court ON THE COURT date. No cop, ticket dismissed (cops are generally in court on a specific day and that's when their ticket hearings are scheduled).

A "Police representative"? This sounds like a violation of constitutional rights in terms of being able to confront (wrong word I know) your accuser (do they ask you to waive this right before the hearing?).

[ndabunka]

I'm on a number of forum's during any one day.  Here is a thread from the Acura TL forum on how to beat a ticket.  To be honest, I did not even read it (got too many other things going on) but figured it may give you details on how others handle these things...http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157606

[Bonibelle]

Apparently in Pa, (or maybe it is just in West Chester), if you don't send the money, you will face higher fines. The money is held almost like a bond. He will get a court date and appear to defend himself. I told him to keep sitting next to the mayor at church  Thanks so much for your detailed post, Nda, I printed it out for him.

[tony]

A "Police representative"? This sounds like a violation of constitutional rights in terms of being able to confront (wrong word I know) your accuser (do they ask you to waive this right before the hearing?).

In MA, your first course of action if you do not agree with the ticket is to request a hearing in front of a clerk magistrate of the court where the police department will most likely have a representative of the department present.  If you disagree with the clerks decision, you appeal to be heard in front of a judge or jury where the officer would have to be present.

[wmccall]

I got a speeding ticket for $74 last year. It was my first ticket in over a decade. I went to the hearing and told my story to the judge, about how I didn't have any points on my license, I'm a good driver, etc. He waived the fine but charged me $74 in court costs - which, he was quick to point out, is exactly how much I would have paid if I would have just mailed in a check. So, fighting it works, as long as you're not in central Ohio & get Judge Irony...

That is exactly what happened to me with that dingbat  Franklin County Muninicpal Judge Ann Taylor, except for me it was their favorite "Unassured clear distance"  As long as they get their money they don't really care about the offense.

[bosco0633]

As most of you know I work for a city department now.  Prior to that I was a highway patrol officer.  I am versed in radar, laser, and all traffic related offences.  In my area, we have companies consisting of usually retired officers that act as an agent for the accused.  These agents represent you in court and work to discredit the officers information to get out of the ticket.  People pay a fortune for these people.

Now, I know that most court systems are based on the same principles.  You can contact the courts either, court officers, crowns or prosecutors or the judges depending on your area.  It is called a first appearance where I am.  It is like an audition before you go to trial.  You explain your case and driving history and they try to come to a resolve before trial.  If this does not work, set a trial date, go to court, ask to speak with the crown or prosecutor before trial and plead your case.  9 times out of 10, the lawyer will reduce the ticket to avoid points or bring the costs down.  DONT HIRE A LAWYER OR POINTS PERSON OR AGENT!!!!!! THIS IS A WASTE OF MONEY.

Now, it looks like DOC is one of these guys that we police get frustrated with, but it is still your right.  If you want to fight the ticket, there are ways and things you can go after an officer for.

I am not sure if I should get in to it, but what the hell.  If it was a laser that was used, I will suggest that you are going to have more difficulty getting off.  You should raise, when the laser was tested to ensure that it was working for one.  Here in my area the laser must be tested before and at the end of shift when used to ensure it is working properly.  You can question the officer as to the testing sequences if you like, but this is pricky!

The fundamentals of a laser is that the laser is pin point accuracy.  We are trained to aim at the front of the vehicle.  The laser has a scope with a dot usually in it.  This red dot is centered between the headlights of a specific vehicle.  We activate the laser and it tells the specific speed of one vehicle. I have been sucessful at getting a vehicle on laser up to 1 mile away.

So this is why it is difficult to fight the laser.

Now if it was radar, handheld you have a better chance to fight the ticket.  The radar is not specific beam like a laser.  The radar sends out a beam like a wine bottle.  The further the distance, the wider the beam gets.  So when vehicles enter the beam area the radar will identify speeds.  Now the officer is responsible for gathering physical evidence to support the reading.  The officer will identify a vehicle travelling at a high rate of speed, activate the radar to confirm the vehicle speeding.  The officer needs to ensure that there were no other vehicles in the beam that could have been picked up instead.  New radars have the abillity to give two readings at once, so if you observed two vehicles and see one going faster, you can identify which one was speeding.

So basically you can attack the officers ability to distinguish if the speed on the radar was infact that of your husband.  If the situation is the way you said it was and it was in fact a radar, I would suggest that you have a good case here.

Hope this helps a bit.  I can give you more info if you like, but honestly talk to the lawyer before trial and they will reduce ticket to a lesser fine.  I see it all the time.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

A mile with laser? Wow, you're good. From independant studies I've read though, the laser can spread out to as much as a 3' wide beam (it may have been 5'). But still, I agree with you. You have little chance of beating a laser radar ticket.

California differs a lot from the east coast. You get a court date, with the judge (or a pro tem..... volunteer lawyer wanna be judge). If the cop doesn't show up, case dismissed. The cops ALWAYS starts with spec'ing their radar gun and all the testing and dates of tests. I've never seen a ticket won here. I've also never seen anyone represented in court, though I hear it's common with truckers (I'm not in an area with a lot of speeding truckers).

Usually around here, if there's a pack that's speeding, they only pull over the front driver. If you're in the middle of the pack it's usually easy to beat by simply stating you were moving with the flow of traffic. There's, I believe, 4 highway patrol laser radar teams that travel around CA targeting some well known speeding areas. 1 guy with the gun, and 3 or 4 patrol cars pulling people over. They WILL pull over as many in a group as they can. So far, been lucky.. Ok........... so far I've gotten enough warning from my V1 to just barely avoid them   . The rest of the highway patrol around here is using ka band. Detectable from a mile away around 2 tight curves in the road.

bosco, I really mean no disrespect to you or any other officer I've never met. You have a difficult job and I do respect you for it. I've just had my share of very "interesting" run-ins with some very questionable police officers (one of which I believe is no longer on the force due to HIS completely unjustifiable confrontation with me..... though I should add, it was hinted to me by his Sargent this wasn't the first time).

[bosco0633]

its always the few that ruin it for the bunch.  No worries, I think that it is great that you are willing to research and learn and that you believe in standing up for you fair right to trial.  The police are not always right and we do make mistakes as well.  

yeah it was just shy of a mile but it was awsome.  radar detectors are illegal here so we have some equipment that we use to detect them. It is like stealing candy from a baby

i hope that the police officer was delt with accordingly.

[ndabunka]

Here on the east coast, the process is similar but it's in actual court.  If the police officer does not show, the ticket is dismissed.  It's common practice for anyone who wants to simply show up the day of the ticket.  See if the officer is there.  If he is, then most barter the speed down with the DA from actual (85MPH in a 55 bartered down to 62, etc) just prior to actual court.  I've not been in court on such an occurrence for about 5 years but I don't think it's changed much.  Although I was never pulled "at speed" I did run with a group who were traveling anywhere between 140MHP and 170MPH over a number of 1-5 miles stretches on major, vacant interstate.  We got lucky and no one suffered any "tickets" but the group of us all older guys with more money than sense (at the time) would have had a tough time wiggling out of jail time.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

So that puts you in either Virginia or Wash DC?

Around here, you can make a court date by phone, and just show up ........... with 500 other people. Somehow I ALWAYS wind up being the LAST case (only been 3 times, in my 31 years of driving), and I like to sit in the front row. Get to listen to a LOT of interesting cases and see what works, and what doesn't..... and, it can be quiote ammusing at times.

The thing here is they add that convience fee to the fine, for being able to pay by mail. Go to court and the fine can drop 35%. And, there's always the chance of getting the ticket dismissed.

I think they reciently changes some of the laws here. 100+ mph and your car gets impounded on the spot (might be slightly higher). Somehow I recollect that by the time you get your car back, costs (including towing and impound fees) can exceed $3000.00