Cloudy Hot Tub

[Ronald5599]

We had a new Hot Springs Envoy installed the first week in May. Everything was fine until 3 weeks later when we noticed the water turning cloudy. We ended up dumping and refilling the tub - starting all over. Again, 3 weeks later, the same thing. We were very disappointed as we thought the Hot Springs filtration would prevent something like this. As I had surgery the first week in June, the tub has had very light usage and still it was getting cloudy. Our dealer sold us on the Rendezvous GLB products. What we do is put in 2 oz. of Chlorine over the weekend, when we use the tub 1 capful of Activate and once weekly 2 oz. of Protect Plus.  It seems that as the end of day 6 comes along, the water starts to turn. When I put the chlorine in, later that day it is clear again. I do not understand - the tub has the 24/7 ozinator, the silver ion cartridge, these two things "they say" take care of 95% of the tub needs. The Chlorine is jut supposed to do the 5%. Well, it seems that without the chlorine - the other two things don't do the job. In addition, they have us cleaning out at least one of the five ceramic filters weekly with a hose - I have no idea how we will do that during the cold winter months here in NY. So we are very frustrated - are we doing something wrong? What about the chemicals? We have apprehension every time we open the cover. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Brookenstein]

I have had an 05 Envoy since November.  I'm not familiar with your chemincals.  I use dichlor after use (~ 1 tsp per person) and then shock weekly with MPS.  I just changed the water last weekend... before that it was late March and the water still looked perfect.

I rinse all 5 filters at a time with a hose.  In the beginning I was good at doing it weekly, now it is closer to ever 2 weeks.  Usually the only filter that really looks like it needs it is the one on the circ pump.  I use the spray on cleaner at water changes and also use the dishwasher then.  I've onlsy soaked the circ pump filter once since Nov.

My water is crystal clear 98% of the time.

[Tatooed_Lady]

It's not the tub or the filters, it's the system you've got of chemicals. I'll leave it to someone more eloquent, bright and awake to give you advice, though.

[Vinny]

Not too bright or awake but ...

Your not using enough sanitizer in your tub!

Get on a routine where you use mostly dichlor. The cloudiness is probably bacteria that has gotten out of control and when you use 2 oz of chlorine you kill and  oxidize it. 2 oz may be eqivilent to 8 PPM or higher of chlorine and this is a "shock" dose.

People put too much stock in the mineral cartridge and ozone - some people claim N2 works, for me it didn't, as for ozone see my recent post about my experiment.

Go to http://www.rhtubs.com/bbs/FAQ.htm go to the Vermonter's info and Northman's info and read up on water care. It's simple, a lot of people use it and it seems to work for most people.

[drewstar]

I agree that you need a better sanitizing system.  I second the vermonters dichlor rotuine.  I use the method on my tub and have a 24/7 ozone system and my water is great.

As far as the cleaning the filters in the winter, I'd buy an extra one, pop the clean one in, take the dirty one out and wash it inside the house in the bathtub using a handheld shower head. Some filters can be washed in the dishwasher.

By having an extra filter you can rotate a clean one in the tub, and wash the diry one inside at your leisure.

[Drewski]

...until 3 weeks later when we noticed the water turning cloudy... Again, 3 weeks later, the same thing....What we do is put in 2 oz. of Chlorine over the weekend, when we use the tub 1 capful of Activate and once weekly 2 oz. of Protect Plus.  It seems that as the end of day 6 comes along, the water starts to turn.... When I put the chlorine in, later that day it is clear again. [/u]

Hi Ron:

Sorry about your frustration, but a hot tub or spa requires a little more sanitizer than what I think YOU thought. Maybe your dealer "sold" you on a "low" level of chlorine use (or maybe that's what you "heard"), but what others have suggested here is absolutely correct - your level of sanitation is too LOW.

The routine you describe sounds like you are using a buffer and clarifying agent, along with a sanitizer but the symptoms you describe are consistent with a LOW level of chlorine (or other sanitizer).  This eventually causes your cloudy water, followed by you shocking on the weekend followed by the tub going clear again. This repeats a few times until levels really build up, forcing you to empty the tub and start over.

Key thing here is for you to add sanitizer after each use (or at least 3 times per week when not in use) and shock weekly. Although HotSprings has excellent filtration, they do NOT have molecular level filtration which means they can only filter out organics AFTER they have been created and "clumped" up. To cause this, you need to use MORE sanitizer. You probably should consider increasing by about 1/3 the amount you use daily and then calculate your shock amount by using 10 times your base level (i.e., if you have 1 PPM of chlorine in your tub, use shock to bring to 10 PPM).

As far as filter cleaning goes, that's a chore that you just need to get used to.  There are lots of Canadian members here, so I'm sure they can offer some winter cleaning suggestions.

When you get all of this sorted out, it gets a LOT easier and you'll be HAPPY before you know it!

Good luck and post questions if you have them...

Drewski

[Ronald5599]

Thanks for all the replys. We had the owner of the company over today to discuss the cloudy situatioin and other mechanical things that are going on. Basically, he is agreeing with everyone, the ozone and silver does not "do the whole job". He said to double up on the chlorine (4 oz instead of 2) once a week and that should do it? Does that make sense?

[DoubleA]

When I was first trying chlorine (am still on it today), I was using too little chlorine or not enough in the week.  If I wouldn't sit in it for 3 to 4 days or forget to put in chlorine for 3 to 4 days my water would be cloudy.  But a chlorine shock would do the trick.  A chlorine shock is a larger amount of chlorine that can be used instead of a MPS shock.  Not sure if I'm right but I think a chlorine shock brings your Chlorine level to about a 10 ppm or so.  Anyway.  I agree with everyone else that it is possibly bacteria that is making your water cloudy.  So I would recommend chlorine be added after every soak and possibly every 2 to 3 days if no soaking was done to maintain a low to free bacteria tub.  Once a week adding will bring the level up but I'm not too sure if it will maintain a proper chlorine level for sanitation.  If I'm wrong please someone chime in.  I hope I have shown a little light for you, With my routine I add chlorine after soaks and every other day if no soaks.  MPS shock once a week, and balance the pH, total alk, add stain and scale and spa enzyme.  Good luck and hopefully we can be of help to you.

[Spatech_tuo]

Thanks for all the replys. We had the owner of the company over today to discuss the cloudy situatioin and other mechanical things that are going on. Basically, he is agreeing with everyone, the ozone and silver does not "do the whole job". He said to double up on the chlorine (4 oz instead of 2) once a week and that should do it?

Does that make sense?

I think that will only help a little bit, doubling up on a once per week chlorine use will help marginally but you'll still see it getting cloudy later in the week. You're going too long in between use of your sanitizer.

People try to hold onto the idea that they can add chlorine just once per week but it just will not be effective enough from my experience. I council people on spa care VERY often and see this same scenario time and time again. If you switch to a routine of adding chlorine AFTER each use your water issues will almost assuredly go away. My advice has always been to generously add 1 TSP of chlorine per person AFTER each use and once per week to shock with MPS. When people switch to a "chlorine per use" approach they find it works great AND they find that there is little to no chlorine smell as they add it after they get out and it's largely dissipated before they get in again.

[wmccall]

My advice has always been to generously add 1 TSP of chlorine per person AFTER each use and once per week to shock with MPS. When people switch to a "chlorine per use" approach they find it works great AND they find that there is little to no chlorine smell as they add it after they get out and it's largely dissipated before they get in again.

I have been using this method for about 3 years and find it works great for me.  Water quality is pretty much something I only think about every 3-4 months.

[Brewman]

 One of the reasons I initially resisted dichlor was because it sounded like too much work to be always adding the stuff, but so far it's we've spent way less work for nicer water quality.

[The_Bends]

I think that will only help a little bit, doubling up on a once per week chlorine use will help marginally but you'll still see it getting cloudy later in the week. You're going too long in between use of your sanitizer.

People try to hold onto the idea that they can add chlorine just once per week but it just will not be effective enough from my experience. I council people on spa care VERY often and see this same scenario time and time again. If you switch to a routine of adding chlorine AFTER each use your water issues will almost assuredly go away. My advice has always been to generously add 1 TSP of chlorine per person AFTER each use and once per week to shock with MPS. When people switch to a "chlorine per use" approach they find it works great AND they find that there is little to no chlorine smell as they add it after they get out and it's largely dissipated before they get in again.

This method is very effective.  

One thing to add to this, pH has an effect on chlorine.  Even though most test strips say that the ideal range for pH is 7.2 - 7.8.  With Chlorine:

*At 7.2 chlorine is 90% effective; at 7.5 chlorine is only 50% effective, and at 7.8, chlorine is only 20% effective.**

Not that you have to break out the chemistry set to get the pH perfect, just remember that if it is on the low side of ideal, what you put in will go alot further.  

[hymbaw]

I realize that this forums members are skewed towards di-chlor. I, however, love me some bromine tabs! Let those suckers do their thing all week, shock with MPS on Sunday; crystal clear, perfect agua, all the time.

[Chas]

I realize that this forums members are skewed towards di-chlor. I, however, love me some bromine tabs! Let those suckers do their thing all week, shock with MPS on Sunday; crystal clear, perfect agua, all the time.

NO! Bromine tabs are close to half CHLORINE - which eats the inside of your cover alive. Slow painful death - gets very heavy as it begins to absorb water. Oh sure, they seem so nice and inocent, don't they?!

Plus you have that smell when you open the lid.

If you want to use bromine, get you some 'Brilliance,' or find another type that is pure Bromine, not mixed. You will have to shock it once per week, but you can do that with the lid open and it won't do the 'burn the cover guts' thing.

[bosco0633]

bromine user here as well.  I have had cloudy water once.  My dispenser ran dry.  i shocked the snot out of it and it bounced back.

Bromine has no smell to me, I love it and find it really easy for my life style.  Shift worker and father of two with a three week old son.

Cloudy water in my tub is always a result of not enough bromine or shocking.