1998 Grandee Problem

[tuggnet]

I currently own a 1998 Grandee which I received as a warranty replacement tub.  Previous to that I owned another Hotspring spa.

My first spa (don't remember which model it was) was replaced for something Watkin's calls "crazing."  That's where  small "micro" cracks form in the shell.  Usually along the bar top.

My Grandee is well out of warranty now and of course it started doing the very same thing.  I noticed this a number of years ago and  called for service and was told "they do that."

Well, this crazing has lead to various cracks in the bar top.  I have two huge cracks and several of the small "crazing" cracks are opening into larger cracks.

Additionally, I have the added benifit of my tub leaking in various places.

So I'm pretty hot about all this and call up Watkins and make a stink.  I'm told that "crazing is a natural part of the shell aging."

So, I'm ready to buy a Cal Spa but first I contact my local dealer to see if they'll do anything.

The owner tells me he'll call Watkins and see what he can do.

Well to make a very long story short, they will sell me a new Grandee for $7000.

My problem is I don't know if this will happen again with a new spa.  

Is anyone else having this problem?

I'm really thinking about a Cal Spa.  Does anyone know if Cal Spas suffer from the same crazing problem?

Thanks for the advice/input!

[Chas]

You had a problem that would be considered cosmetic - and they gave you a free spa. The replacement spa has had the same problem and your dealer is still willing to give you a two-thousand dollar trade-in allowance. Not bad IMO.

The cracks can be repaired, the crazing doesn't need to be repaired unless you want it to be. You could continue to enjoy that tub for another decade if you choose to.

You have already gotten very good life out of the unit. The leaks? I don't know - not enough info - but those could be a fitting or seal in the motor compartment or similar easily-fixed problem.

I know this sounds like I'm minimizing your troubles, I'm not: I am just telling the same story from another point of view.

Most importantly: the new tubs and materials do not craze. There were a number of years when HS had more tubs that crazed than should have. 1998 was well after that. The problem was solved, and has not recurred, so I am going to say your tub must have just been unlucky.

I would not, under any circumstances recommend a Cal.

[tuggnet]

I bought my first HS tub in 1994 and I don't remember the model. I was the one just below the Grandee.

The only thing the dealer told me was there were problem with the tub that required it to be replaced and all they ask me was if I want a Grandee.  

Crazing was present on the first tub but it was not cracked!

Well I was overjoyed and took the tub.

The local dealer has been out twice to fix the cracks and the tub continues to crack in the same place.

I think I just may have a lemon.  Within the past few weeks, the spa has started leaking on the side by the moto jets.

Will you elaborate on the problems with the Cal Spas?

Thanks

[J._McD]

Noone would ever suggest you bite off your nose despite your face.  Obviously this is not HS classic white endural shell and thus, is acrylic reinforced with fiberglass.

What does your spa sit on as a base?  If you understand that the shell is forever under a load stress, it does need to be properly supported.  Secondly, going to another manufacturer because you have experienced a problem is not good logic.  It may put you into the open market shopping for a Hot Tub and I am sure you will ask many questions about warranty and spa crazzing.

Every manufacturer, mostly in their early years, go through a learning curve in what they do.  When they change material or use different glue or cabinet materials, etc., there is always a learning curve, a period of time that tells the tale.  I would believe that every manufacturer has experienced acrylic shell problems in their earlier years and have corrected the cause to make a better product.  That is what warranties are for.  Frankly, I believe you could have more confidence in HS newer product line.

Your spa is 8 years old, is it not covered under a warranty.  Shell structures are usually warrantied for 10 years, unless this is determined to be a surface condition which would then maybe have a 7 years warranty.  I am sure they would have asked you, or told you, if it was, or was not, covered under warranty.  If it cracks open and leaks, I would consider that to be a structural failure not a surface condition.

I have sold acrylic shells since the early '80's and have not seen alot of shell failures in what I have handled, but I have seen some.  If it is something they say happens a lot or is common, they must see more of it than I do.  I would not consider it to be a natural part of "shell aging" as much as I would attribute it to "shell stress" considering the weight that it holds.  500 gallons = 4,000 pounds, try supporting that for 8 years.

[Kyle]

You'll be very frustrated if you went for a Cal spa.  Why Cal?  Leaks happen, cracks are unfortunate.  Crazing happens in the whole industry occasionally and especially with certain materials.  I understand if you choose another brand, but I'd research it a little more.

[tuggnet]

Noone would ever suggest you bite off your nose despite your face.  Obviously this is not HS classic white endural shell and thus, is acrylic reinforced with fiberglass.

Well, my current grandee is the classic white endural shell.

What does your spa sit on as a base?  If you understand that the shell is forever under a load stress, it does need to be properly supported.  Secondly, going to another manufacturer because you have experienced a problem is not good logic.  It may put you into the open market shopping for a Hot Tub and I am sure you will ask many questions about warranty and spa crazzing.

My spa sets on a paver stones.  The area is completely level.

[Chas]

Obviously this is not HS classic white endural shell and thus, is acrylic reinforced with fiberglass.

HS doesn't back it's tubs with fiberglass - even the new acrylic shells are ABS backed.

Your spa is 8 years old, is it not covered under a warranty.

That is correct. Standard warranty is seven years for surface and structure.

[J._McD]

Your orignal purchase rules.  1994 makes your spa out of warranty for structural after 10 years, 2004.  You have had 12 years of great performance and family fun.  The new tubs today have changed over the 12 years since you bought your tub.  Considering the tub had been replaced once, you have had 12 years of service out of your purchase.  Maybe it is time to get one with 2 motomassages.

[East_TX_Spa]

I can recall seeing cracklin on 1 Endurol spa and that was on a 1995 Highlife we took in on trade.  I sold it to a nice lady who loves it dearly over a year ago for $4000 and it's still bubbling along.

It does sound like you got a limone.

Terminator

[Micah]

If you are happy with how the watkins company has taken care of you, and just not happy with how long the spa lasts, maybe you should look at the other watkins brand.  Since hot springs dosent use any fiberglass backing, try looking at Caldera.  Caldera uses fiberglass backing instead of an A.B.S.  backing.   I.M.H.O. fiberglass seems to be a more rigid and stronger way to back a spa.  I have seen more crazing on spas with rovell, Centrex, Ultralife and Endurol.  The one common denominator with those four types of material is that they don't use fiberglass.  Since you are not really on a solid foundation, I think a stronger spa might help.
P.S.  I'll be suprised if the mother ship dosent come after me with everything they have over this post

[East_TX_Spa]

P.S.  I'll be suprised if the mother ship dosent come after me with everything they have over this post

They have advised me that they appreciate your promotion of their line of products and may you live long and fruitfully.

Terminator THX-1138

[tuggnet]

If you are happy with how the watkins company has taken care of you, and just not happy with how long the spa lasts, maybe you should look at the other watkins brand.  Since hot springs dosent use any fiberglass backing, try looking at Caldera.  Caldera uses fiberglass backing instead of an A.B.S.  backing.   I.M.H.O. fiberglass seems to be a more rigid and stronger way to back a spa.  I have seen more crazing on spas with rovell, Centrex, Ultralife and Endurol.  The one common denominator with those four types of material is that they don't use fiberglass.  Since you are not really on a solid foundation, I think a stronger spa might help.
P.S.  I'll be suprised if the mother ship dosent come after me with everything they have over this post

You know, I am happy with the way watkins has treated me.  They replaced the first tub almost before I knew there was a problem.

My local hotspring dealer has been good.  I talked to the owner last friday and told him my problem.  He said he would make a couple calls and see what he could do.

I got a call back a few hours later with his offer.  I don't think $7000 is a bad price for a new Grandee!

They seem to be willing to take care of me as a customer.   I guess you really can't ask for more than that.


Are the new shells on the Grandee made of that Endurol stuff?  I think I'm interested in the "Sand" finish.

I'll post what happens.

Cheers

[J._McD]

I can recall seeing cracklin on 1 Endurol spa and that was on a 1995 Highlife we took in on trade.  I sold it to a nice lady who loves it dearly over a year ago for $4000 and it's still bubbling along.

It does sound like you got a limone.

Terminator

Wow, even I would think that was a lot of money for a used tub that had a crack in it, but I do assume that would have included a brand new cover, cover lifter, 3 new filters, chemical start up and delivery though, right?  Even then, that is $1800 short of brand new today.  That is what you gotta love about a quality tub, they hold their value.

[tuggnet]

Just wanted to update you on my Grandee issue.

After talking to the local Hotspring dealer (owner) I've got a new 2006 Grandee scheduled for delivery on June 15.

I feel International Hot Tub and Watkins went out of their way to keep me as a customer.

Thanks to all for your input on this issue.

[Chas]

Yay! Enjoy your new tub! Did you go with the sand interior?