What's the Best Hot Tub

Author Topic: Question to Bonibelle ...  (Read 2463 times)

Vinny

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Question to Bonibelle ...
« on: May 17, 2006, 07:16:40 pm »
In a post on Doc's site a long while ago, Vermonter (who's also a microbilogist I believe) posted on what it takes to completely disinfect a tub. He used a log number and I believe a contact time and chlorine amount that equaled 2400 (again, I think that's the number).

My question - At what point in a microbiologist's view would something, in this case a hot tub, go from "disinfected" to "sterilized"?

My belief and I may be wrong is that after a certain contact time and chlorine (bromine) level that EVERYTHING in the water will pretty much be dead and if you still have a chlorine (bromine) residue active that the tub would stay bacteria free until something (anything) is introduced.

I'm not looking for specific numbers but a general understanding ... my next post in a new thread will answer why I would like to know.

Thanks!

Vinny

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Question to Bonibelle ...
« on: May 17, 2006, 07:16:40 pm »

Bonibelle

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Re: Question to Bonibelle ...
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2006, 08:13:42 am »
Vinny, I have to tell you, most of my experience with sterilizing and sanitizing has been with things for sterile pharmaceuticals.  I therefore don't really believe that a hot tub can be sterilized completely, since contamination can be reintroduced on a continuous basis. The tub is not a closed system.
Critical factors are as you say, the amount of disinfectant or  sanitizer, what sort of organism you are trying to kill, the actual level of contamination [glb]and[/glb] contact time with the disinfectant

To give you an example, chlorine is a very good disinfectant and for many types of organisms it is bacteriocidal (it kills them) There are some organisms that are resistant however and therefore the chlorine may act as a bacteriostatic agent (it keeps them from reproducing, but they may still remain viable until conditions are favorable for replication-like a drop in sanitizer levels). To me something that is sterilized is void of ALL microorganisms. I don't think that is possible in a hot tub in a normal situation.

Just to see what happens, since you have me curious too, I am going to plate my water. It has been crystal clear and the bromine levels are relatively low. I'll try testing after shocking when the levels are high and when they decrease. since I only use strips, we will be limited to relative levels, but we can see what happens..and I will even plate after we soak, but before a filtration cycle... this sounds like science fair material ;D
« Last Edit: May 18, 2006, 08:15:11 am by Bonibelle »
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Brewman

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Re: Question to Bonibelle ...
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2006, 08:20:08 am »
Sounds like an interesting experiment.  
This question comes up a lot in the brewing world, too.
We have to sanitize equipment, and use chlorine (diluted bleach, usually), iodophor or other chemicals to sanitize, but not sterilize brewing equipment.
 It's pretty much understood that sanitation is all that's practical or necessary.  
I personally don't believe it's possible to sterilize a spa with any of the common methods.  
It may be technically possible, but not practical, and absolutely not necessary.  

But do post your results.  I'm really curious on what you do find.

Brewman

Vinny

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Re: Question to Bonibelle ...
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2006, 08:42:41 am »
Thanks Bonibelle!!

I know in hospitals they use various methods to kill infectious organisms. The two main methods are steam sterilzation and Ethylene Oxide gas (ETO) and these are used for the Operating room instruments.

But Perocedic (sp?) acid is used in cleaning certain equipment and so is bleach and a bunch of other disinfectants.

I "know" about the factors involved to disinfect and was really thinking about the normal bacteria from after soaking and not a biofilm.

I had no clue that chlorine wouldn't kill all organisms; I thought it did. As Brewman said I know that some sort of chlorine solution is usually run through food processors such as ice cream machines to kill off the bacteria.

Thanks again!

Vinny


Bonibelle

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Re: Question to Bonibelle ...
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2006, 09:11:13 am »
Vinny, some organisms are spore forming and can resist  disinfection. Some of the work I remember doing involved testing various disinfecting agents and determining when a new, different agent was required to remove the resistant residual guys. Many procedures for disinfection of equipment (that can't be heated or radiated)use more than one, in order to cover all bases. Also be aware that chlorine in too high a concentration can be ineffective..and I think that has something to do with the way it permeates the cell wall of the organisms... :-/
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Re: Question to Bonibelle ...
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2006, 09:11:13 am »

 

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