Sundance Filters

[shabba34]

The Microclean filter are "depth loading"(capturing particles all the way through the filter media) A pleated filter is "surface loading" (capturing particles on the surface)

You can clean the surface of a filter. I agree, it would be nice if you could clean the depths of a filter.

Until we figure out how, you just have to toss them.

Tri-X filters are both surface and depth loading and are able to be cleaned.

[Drewski]

Why aren't they recommended if they fit. Didn't they filter just fine previously? I thought that was a perfectly fine alternative if you don't want to be buying new filters every 9 months for $90 (therefore $10/month on disposable filters when you can use a traditional one for about 3 yrs at about $2/month)?

Am I misinterpreting something?

I'm not a Sundance owner, but I did some research on this. Noblewinds, an Internet seller, has the following to say about the Sundance filter issue:

"The Unicel C-8326 Replaces both Sundance filters (Pleated 6540-501 & Micro-Fiber 6540-502)  with a single pleated filter.  The C-8380 replaces only the pleated 6540-501 Filter."

Here's the link to the replacement filter they indicate. Their price is $64.34 including shipping.

How about the fact that the circ. pump runs at 35 GPM as opposed to 5 GPM. Instead of cleaning your filter every 6 weeks you would have to clean it every 6 DAYS!

Again, with a little research, the "standard" formula I found for water flow rates through pleated cartridge filters was .375 GPM per square foot of cartridge media. OK, .375 X 125 SFT = 49 GPM, meaning a 35 GPM circ pump is still "in range?"  Am I reading this wrong?

Additionally, regardless of flow rate, if your water is dirty, it's DIRTY.  The change in flow rate only equates to the amount of TIME it takes to clean your water. So, to use a ridiculous example, if you have a 5 GPM circ pump, you get dirty water for 5 1/2 weeks until your filter finally overcomes it and gets "dirty" enough to clean. With a 35 GPM pump, it does the same process in 5 1/2 DAYS, after which you need to clean it.

What type of water would you rather have?

Drewski


 

[windsurfdog]

How about the fact that the circ. pump runs at 35 GPM as opposed to 5 GPM. Instead of cleaning your filter every 6 weeks you would have to clean it every 6 DAYS!

Are you suggesting that filters be cleaned every six weeks?  YIKES!  How 'bout biweekly?  Having 2 sets of filters that get switched and rinsed every 2 weeks seems like a better procedure to me...but that's just me.

[hymbaw]

Noblewinds, an Internet seller, has the following to say about the Sundance filter issue:

"The Unicel C-8326 Replaces both Sundance filters (Pleated 6540-501 & Micro-Fiber 6540-502)
 

I'm sure that Noblewinds knows more about Sundance spas than the people that design/build them. I already said that it will "fit".

[hymbaw]

Additionally, regardless of flow rate, if your water is dirty, it's DIRTY.  The change in flow rate only equates to the amount of TIME it takes to clean your water. So, to use a ridiculous example, if you have a 5 GPM circ pump, you get dirty water for 5 1/2 weeks until your filter finally overcomes it and gets "dirty" enough to clean. With a 35 GPM pump, it does the same process in 5 1/2 DAYS, after which you need to clean it.

Your quote above would have some validity if you never use your tub.
If you are using your tub daily you are continuosly adding waste to the water.
X amount of water through the filters and they are ready to clean. 5 GPM or 35 GPM which is ready for cleaning first? It's a no brainer.

[SerjicalStrike]

The pleated filter was designed with 2 parts.  1 section for the ciirculation pump, and one for the 2 speed pump.  

The new filter has only 1 pump pulling through it because the filtration is totally separated from the main pump system.  That pump will pull unevenly through the filter because of how it is seaparated.  That is why it is not reccomended.

This is why the filter will not work.  The filter that "fits" was designed as a 2 part filter.  1 section for the small circ pump, 1 section for the main pump.  The 2 part filter will replace the microclean 1, but not the microclean II.  

[SerjicalStrike]

Are you suggesting that filters be cleaned every six weeks?  YIKES!  How 'bout biweekly?  Having 2 sets of filters that get switched and rinsed every 2 weeks seems like a better procedure to me...but that's just me.

1 filter that gets replaced every 6-12 months seems easier to me.   But, it depends on what your time is worth.  

Pleated filters should be cleaned (if you can see them) when the pleats start to stick together or you notice a decrease in jet pressure.  Having a routine like every 2 weeks is nice because usually that keeps you ahead of the game.  

[Drewski]

Your quote above would have some validity if you never use your tub.  If you are using your tub daily you are continuosly adding waste to the water.
X amount of water through the filters and they are ready to clean. 5 GPM or 35 GPM which is ready for cleaning first? It's a no brainer.

Yeah, I know it's a no brainer.  BUT, it's for a different reason.  I doubt Sundance increased the circ pump flow rate to increase water turnover. After all, if the "new" filter is so great, why do you need to filter the tub volume so many times per day? I'm thinking they increased the GPM to increase PRESSURE, allowing the filter to still pass water as it clogs.

BUT, the "paper" filter also allows a flow rate of 35 GPM and higher pressure.  Maybe it won't clean the water as efficiently as a micron filter AND maybe it requires you to clean it more often, but is it more economical while providing the same benefit?

My point is this - do spa manufacturers add these features as a "marketing" ploy (WE have it, THEY don't), a reason to keep us consumers coming into the dealer's shop (you can only get this SPECIAL THING through the DEALER), or are they genuinely improving the performance of the product they make while at the same time reducing cost and effort to the consumer?

From some of what you said before, it sounds like the Sundance filter might almost last an entire year without replacement. If that's true (and I'd have to experience it at MY volume of use to believe it) you guys have a dynamite product!  If on the other hand, I'd have to replace it multiple times per year because it clogs easy, sorry, I'll stick with the tried and true method. If you didn't offer that method, I'd be sorely PO'd

So, when you said your customers are "averaging about 10 - 11 months on the MicroClean II" before replacement, does that mean you have some customers who only average 6 months?

Don't take me wrong here, I'm NOT trying to give you a hard time. It's just that a claim of filters lasting 10-11 months really makes me wonder. I'd definitely buy such a product if it performed as you advertise because you're absolutely right when you say the cost and time of cleaning filters adds up...

Drewski

[tony]

There are more manufacturers than just Sundance that use a high volume circ pump.  What are they using for filters?  I'll bet a pleated filter.  A pleated filter will allow more to pass through than the 5 microns that the Microclean II filters allow.  I don't see why it would not work.  On the older SD systems, the pleated filter handled the two speed pump on high.  That's got to be more that 35 gallons per minute.  How about a pool pump with a cartridge filter?  Same thing there.

[Spatech_tuo]

There are more manufacturers than just Sundance that use a high volume circ pump.  What are they using for filters?  I'll bet a pleated filter.  A pleated filter will allow more to pass through than the 5 microns that the Microclean II filters allow.  I don't see why it would not work.  On the older SD systems, the pleated filter handled the two speed pump on high.  That's got to be more that 35 gallons per minute.  How about a pool pump with a cartridge filter?  Same thing there.

Well I'll admitt that those were my thoughts 1) others use similar circ pumps tied to pleated filters and 2) pleated filters would allow MORE flow so if they fit I don't see how they wouldn't work but I didn't want to come accross like I'm telling someone how their product works (maybe it's too late for that ).

[SerjicalStrike]

From our perspective, the microclean IIs lasted 9-12 months.  We had an issue with a few caving in in the beginning but were told it was a manufacturing problem.  Since then, 9-12 months has been the norm.  I have yet to see where it needed to be replaced every 6 months, but I am certain there are those where it is needed.  


From what I have experienced out in the field, the product is genuinely better.  The pumps pump at full force all the time, and the new circulation pump really moves the water around.  If you cut the circulation pump time down to 8 hours, you are still filtering more water at a higher rate than a 9gpm working for 24 hours.  You are also using less power. (If someone really wants me to do the math, I will) I am really hoping that Sundance will put the new circulation pump on the 780 line, but I don't see that happening.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

[SerjicalStrike]

Well I'll admitt that those were my thoughts 1) others use similar circ pumps tied to pleated filters and 2) pleated filters would allow MORE flow so if they fit I don't see how they wouldn't work but I didn't want to come accross like I'm telling someone how their product works (maybe it's too late for that ).

Look in the middle of a double ended 125sq. ft. filter.  There is a wall close to one side.  That section was used to handel the small circulation pump.  That wall is why you cannot use that filter.  

[marks]

Anne,

The Micropure filters are standard on Arctic tubs.  They say the filter will work on any tub that uses a pleated filter that has a 4-15/16" diameter, 13-5/16" length with a 2-1/8" center core.  They also eliminate the need for Clarifiers and Stain and Scale control.  I think it is an interesting product and am thinking of switching to them on my Beachcomber.

[anne]

Anne,

The Micropure filters are standard on Arctic tubs.  They say the filter will work on any tub that uses a pleated filter that has a 4-15/16" diameter, 13-5/16" length with a 2-1/8" center core.  They also eliminate the need for Clarifiers and Stain and Scale control.  I think it is an interesting product and am thinking of switching to them on my Beachcomber.

Just be careful- its not just that they "eliminate the need" they also *strictly limit the use* of said products. Perhaps used with more experience then me, you need no clarifier. However, if you use stain and scale now, you wont be able to in the future, and there is nothing that the Micropure does that reduces calcium levels. Not everyone has hard water, so that might not be an issue. The rep that I spoke with said to keep an eye on their website, as a new carbon filter is coming out that will remove calcium. He thinks.

Dont get me wrong- I['m interested too, but at least for me, there are to many contraindications at the moment. My tub did come with one.

[marks]

Anne,

I am definitely not an expert, just read the web site and talked to a representative.  The representative confirmed that you do not need and should not use any of the additives listed below.  I wonder who is correct? The web site states:

"Micron disposable filters are meant to last from 2-5 months depending on use and chemicals added. To get maximum filter life with crystal clear water you do not need to use enzymes, brighteners, clarifiers, coagulating agents, or stain & scale preventers. Your filters natural properties will attract oils and scum that go through standard filters, so you can decrease or stop the use of defoamers or other anti-foaming agents."