Do you soak in the spa without any Free Chlorine?

[Gomboman]

OK, I basically follow the Vermonter method in conjunction with ozone and an N2 cartridge. The method consists of adding dichlor after each soak. The amount of dichlor added is dependent on your chlorine demand to achieve 2-3 ppm FAC fifteen minutes after it's added.

Anyway, the theory is that you soak in the spa without any Free Available Chlorine (FAC) so you're not sitting in a "chemical soup" bath. I believe most folks here follow this routine. This system has worked out for our family so far.

Is it lame to soak in the spa without any Free Chlorine? How long would it take to catch something nasty from an infected guest without any sanitizer in the spa? My family is clean, but who knows what my six year old daughter will bring home from school.

Dichlor users, do you soak in the spa without any Free Chlorine?

[Tman122]

I never though about your question but I soak in 0 chlorine all the time. With friends and without. Let me see if I understand your quandry. If your soaking with another person your concern is, if that person has some sort of bacteria (which is a teeny tiny organism) that it will somehow get carried through the water and get in something on your body that will cause you to have a problem with the same bacteria?

I think we have all kinds of mechinisms on and in our body to fight off the kind of bacteria you are talking, because we fight them off all day long in everyday situations. If it were the case that we increased our chances of getting some bacterial infection from the water in a hot tub my guess is the odds are still so low that it isn't any different than being in the same room with someone who is infected on a warm day.

[Snowbird]

You have probbly read the posts about my skin problems.  The process of elimination has traced it to the spa.  My spa must ahve no free chlorine since I use an ozonator, Nature2 and Activate.

We recently went on a 10 day vacation and followed the dealer's advice to add 6 oz of Activate and turn down the temp to 80.  The temp only dropped from 99 to 93 in 10 days.

Upon retrurn the spa was in pretty good shape with only slight cloudiness.  We added Activate to raise the mps level and let it sit.  After a few hours a test showed no mps.  So we kept adding it.  It would test a good mps level after we put it in, but showed extremely low a few hours later.

Someone of this site said to use Dichlor too so I bought some and added 1/4 cup and let it sit for a few hours.  All levels tested perfect.  So the advise to use weekly dichlor was good - thanks to whoever advised it.

I had some minor surgery a few days ago and will need to let it heal before going in the tub.  The big test is if the skin problems return now that we are using Dichlor.

Here is my question.  Should I continue adding Activate after each soak with a weekly Dichlor shock (indoor tub - odor is an issue) or eliminate mps altogether and use Dichlor?  

[Vinny]

Advice that has been given to me here and I have used it is to add a little chlorine (1 PPM) before your company uses the tub and then add more chlorine (2-3 PPM)during a non soak period (eating dinner). The chlorine would be used up in a short period of time due to any bacteria in the water. I used a pre measured dose in a container and just walked by the tub a popped it in.

We don't party often, but have had 8 or 9 people in the tub on a given day, most of them teen age boys. The above method worked for me.

As far as soaking with infected people, I would hope that responsible adults would know if they shouldn't soak IF they know their infected with something. If you want piece of mind, adding a little chlorine (1 PPM) often will help kill anything in the tub.

Depending on your skin reaction to chlorine, soaking in chlorine isn't too bad once in a while. I have soaked in my tub with over 20 PPM chlorine and came out OK, I would think most people could soak in 3 PPM with it being OK. I have read that water companies use 3 PPM to disinfect their drinking water.

[Snowbird]

Since the reaction only occurs when I use the tub, it is highly unlikely there is any "infection".  My guess is there is some chemical that my body doesn't agree with, or that I am not properly maintaining the tub.  Once the offending chemical is removed or I do the job right, the reaction will stop.  It is a process of making small changes and gauging the result.

I was mostly intetrested in what "free chlorine" was and should there be any in an mps tub or a bromine tub.  That appears to be the base of the whole thing. Apparently there are 3 miain tyoes of tubs chemically speaking: chlorine tubs, bromine tubs and mps tubs.  and there seems to be variations under each type.  Right now we use mps.  Perhaps that is the culprit and I will have to switch to bromine or chlorine.  I have no idea how Bacqua-Spa and Spa Perfect fit into all this.

[anne]

I think that the recommendation to soak with chlorine in the tub is based on bacterial reproduction. If there is chlorine present when bacteria are introduced, then they are killed probably in a few minutes. If you dont add chlorine until you leave the tub, those bacteria have multiplied, and you have a bigger # to kill.

Personally, I soak in 0 chlorine as often as possible.

[Vinny]

Since the reaction only occurs when I use the tub, it is highly unlikely there is any "infection".  My guess is there is some chemical that my body doesn't agree with, or that I am not properly maintaining the tub.  Once the offending chemical is removed or I do the job right, the reaction will stop.  It is a process of making small changes and gauging the result.

I was mostly intetrested in what "free chlorine" was and should there be any in an mps tub or a bromine tub.  That appears to be the base of the whole thing. Apparently there are 3 miain tyoes of tubs chemically speaking: chlorine tubs, bromine tubs and mps tubs.  and there seems to be variations under each type.  Right now we use mps.  Perhaps that is the culprit and I will have to switch to bromine or chlorine.  I have no idea how Bacqua-Spa and Spa Perfect fit into all this.

Were you the originator of this thread? I thought Gomboman was, on my computer he is the first post. My comment on infected people was based on his questions.  Or are you one in the same - I know I've never seen you two together!

There really isn't such a thing as a MPS tub. MPS is an oxidizer not a sanitizer so if that's what you're using, maybe you found the culprit - you need sanitizer. N2 and ozone are secondary sanitizers, with chlorine and bromine as primary. You need something to give an initial kill.  I don't think Baqua or Soft Soak can use either MPS or N2

[The_real_Clown_Shoes]

Just a few suggestions.  Check your pH often.  I'm always skeptical about chlorine being the offending irritant.  If your pH is too low or too high (most cases too high) it can cause an itching sensation on your skin and stinging of the eyes.  Chances are your tap water has some chlorine in it already.

Also, check with your dealer and see if they have Taylor reagents or another way to test for combined chlorine WITHOUT using a reflectance test such as ALEX.  Eliminating chloramines is another hurdle to jump, but if you use MPS in combination with the Dichlor, it will knock some of them out.

[sharkman009]

Theres only one way to gaurantee that you dont get pseudomonas or one of the other bacteria that thrive in warm water and that is to always maintain a sanitizer residual.
If you use your spa without a residual you may go a long time and never have a problem but if you ever get infected you will wish you had never used your spa without a good level of sanitizer.
Some of the forms of bacteria that grow in a spa are pretty serious and can be deadly. One thing to remember is when your running your spa you are aerating the water and if theres bacteria in it and you inhale it you can end up with some pretty serious problems.

[Gomboman]

Theres only one way to gaurantee that you dont get pseudomonas or one of the other bacteria that thrive in warm water and that is to always maintain a sanitizer residual.
If you use your spa without a residual you may go a long time and never have a problem but if you ever get infected you will wish you had never used your spa without a good level of sanitizer.
Some of the forms of bacteria that grow in a spa are pretty serious and can be deadly. One thing to remember is when your running your spa you are aerating the water and if theres bacteria in it and you inhale it you can end up with some pretty serious problems.

OK, this is what I was talking about. The intent of my original post may have gotten lost. I normally soak with zero Free Chlorine, as many people do on this forum. I wanted to know if this was a safe routine to follow.

Let's go back to the original question. Assuming you're a chlorine user, do you typically soak without any Free Available Chlorine? If so, do you have concerns following this method?

[hottub.pool_boy]

gombo, you've got the idea. The chlorine dissipates/ or is oxidized after a day or so. Put the dichlor in after you're done as usual.


Questionable guests....up the dichlor prior to.

That's a good topic. It follows our orientation procedure when we set someone up with a new hot tub on ozone, n2, and dichlor.

[Vinny]

I think bacteria doubles every 20 min in a hot tub environment. Also, some bacteria dies in that hot environment.

Assume you have close to 0 bacteria before you get in due to previous dosing of dichlor from the day before. If 4 people soak in a tub for 40 min and the bacteria that started on their bodies doubled 2x - how much bacteria would that be?

For the sake of argument, lets assume that each person brings in 1000 bacteria (could be 10K or 10M). 4000 x2x2 = 16000 in 40 min. If you dosed after soaking with 3 PPM chlorine and it lasts for 20 min and it's residue lasts for hours, then you did a effective dose. I don't think it was detrimental to anyones health. If that same dose didn't last for 20 min, then you haven't effectively killed all the bacteria and I would think it could be a problem.

In the same scenario, if you start off soaking in 2 PPM chlorine, now 20 min later, your soaking in 0 bacteria since the original chlorine killed the bacteria that was introduced. If you add another 2 PPM, you are killing some more bacteria.

I personally don't think there's a problem soaking in 0 chlorine except when you have a party that'll last for hours. Having people in and out of the tub without adding chlorine periodically could be a problem. As people get in and bacteria lingers and doubles evry 20 min,  by the end of 3 or 4 hours - way too much bacteria.

I usually soak in 0 chlorine and I don't have N2 and my ozone runs 10 hours a day. I do put chlorine in the tub before parties, I probably would add a little before guests use the tub depending on the number of people using it.

[drewstar]

I soak with no free chlorine and don't worry about it.  (The ozone is working 24/7 though. ) I am methodical to ensure that I sanitize afterwards and get the levels up to kill anything that I might have introdcued from the soak.

[Bill_Stevenson]

First of all sanitize is not sterilize.  Meaning there is always some bacteria in your spa.  Second, for most people 2, 3 or even 5 ppm of free chlorine is very unlikely to hurt anybody.  I am not convinced that even very sensitive skin people would be harmed by chlorine at this low level.  While it is true that using the Vermonter's method would result in little or no chlorine for most private spa users, it is also true that there may be times when that scenario is neither necessary nor desirable.  For example, with guests over I would consider dosing the spa before, during, and after.  Depending on the number and age of the guests.  If there were a lot of kids, I would dump the water after they left.  

As to the core question: Is it safe to soak in water with little or no free chlorine?  The answer is it all depends.  For most private users who are treating their water properly, in accordance with the Vermonter's or similar method, and who have normal immune systems, the answer is a qualified yes.  For other people who can't answer all of these conditions in a positive manner, maybe the answer is no.  

Let me suggest an example of where it might not be safe.  Someone undergoing chemo therapy, whose immune system is very weak, it would not be prudent to soak in a spa that wasn't well and truly sanitized with a free chlorine high enough to keep the bugs well in check.  I would think young children, too, would be safer soaking a a spa with sanitizer present.

Regards,

Bill

[Gomboman]

OK, let me sum this up. It sounds like most people soak without any Free Chlorine but add chlorine when strangers or kids show up. Will the use of Ozone/N2 help protect you if someone in the spa was infected?