Deaths of Children in Pools and Hot Tubs

[Drewski]

Hi All:

The other night on Larry King, I had an opportunity to hear former Secretary of State Jim Baker talk about the death of his 7 year old grand daughter in (what appeared to be) a combination pool/spa drowning accident.  A complete transcript is here (link probably will be lost by June 1, 2006).

In short, the little girl was swimming in the pool and spa, became entrapped against the underwater suction grate of the spa and unfortunately died. Her mother couldn't pull her off the bottom and it took 2 men to eventually get her out. Mr. Baker is apparently lobbying for legislation addressing the safety issue of suction entrapment and has a plan for dealing with it. Senator Allen of Virginia is the sponsor.

I know that some tub manufactuers (including mine) use by-pass suction openings (Hot Springs guys, DON'T start...) and I'd be interested in hearing how any of you might address this issue and IF you think it's a problem.

Let me first say that on occassion, I've tested the by-pass suction in my own tub and found it strong enough to pin my hand against the tub wall under water. My biggest fear is having my 12 year old neice, or any other girl/boy with long hair, get their hair sucked into the opening and pinned underwater. I've shown them where the openings are, cautioned them to avoid contact, etc., etc., BUT you guys KNOW kids...

Food for thought...

Drewski

:-/

[Vinny]

My tub also made by Artesian has grates in front of all the suction fittings in the foot well. I recently noticed how I can feel the flow going past my foot. The grates are about an inch wide and 4" round, maybe manufacturers are designing the suction grates differently these days due to the entrapment issue.

[Pathfinder]

It seems that kind of accident is becoming more common
Up here in Canada there are provincial legislations that state all commercial pools and hot tubs have anti vortex drains as well as having a emergency shut off equipped with a vacuum release.

The Cal Spas already have a vacuum break system that actually works I ve tried it   I guess they are doing something right before most companies

[East_TX_Spa]

HotSpring Spas actually have NO suction fittings anywhere in the body of the spa.  It's physically impossible to ever become trapped.  They've been like that for 20 something years.  I'm glad to hear that CalSpas is coming around.

Terminator

[East_TX_Spa]

Safety Information

This is the gubberment's stance.

Terminator

[Wisoki]

This has never happened in a portable spa. Jacuzzi, Hotspring, Sundance or otherwise. It is always in a built in pool and or spa that has only one suction fitting on the bottom of the spa or pool. I did'nt click on terms link there, but I'm sure the wording is to the effect that as of such n such date all swiming pools and spas must have at least two suctions per pump to prevent entrapment deaths.

[DPS]

UL requires at least 2 sources of suction for every pump.  I know that the ones we sell (Marquis) go one step further and have three for each pump.  I have never noticed any alarming amount of flow at any of the suction fittings.
I think when a tragedy like that happens, one or more safety checks built into the system have been by-passed.
I remember one do-it-yourselfer who had by passed his GFCI because it kept tripping in his old generic spa.  He was calling to ask our techs what might cause the electrical shock he was feeling in his water when he used the spa.

[Chas]

In a tub with bypass filtration, the suction fittings are frequently plumbed in a Tee fitting with the filters. As such, as the filter gets dirty - or worse, gets plugged - more and more suction is applied to the suction fittings.

So if you have one of these tubs, don't panic. They are still FAR safer than some old commercial in-ground tub you may find at the health club, resort or other publice place. But you should still keep those filters clean.

[Wisoki]

Unfreakingbelievable!

In a tub with bypass filtration, the suction fittings are frequently plumbed in a Tee fitting with the filters. As such, as the filter gets dirty - or worse, gets plugged - more and more suction is applied to the suction fittings.

So if you have one of these tubs, don't panic. They are still FAR safer than some old commercial in-ground tub you may find at the health club, resort or other publice place. But you should still keep those filters clean.

[The_real_Clown_Shoes]

I think most everyone's covered what I was going to say.

Suction fittings are safe if you're not screwing around with them.  The way you get pinned is by having something bigger than the fitting (main drains in pools too) covering the opening.  It's like when you take a cup and suck the air out and it sticks to your mouth.

[J._McD]

Let's understand the real problem here.

These unfortunate instances occur in wading pools, spas, pools and any other water vessel that has been made at the site by a pool builder or contractor that did not comply to the standards as they are written today.

While politicians, who happen to be lawyers who have won 10's of millions of dollars that have been added to there bank accounts, seek publicity and recognition because of the sympathetic issues.

The suction from a pump even a small pump is sufficient to "suck you tight" against a single intake and the powerful force of 4 men are unable to overcome the suction holding force until the power is shut down.  FOR THIS REASON THERE MUST BE 2 SUCTION FITTING FOR EACH PUMP seperated away from each other.  It is only common sense.

It never ceases to amaze me, that in spite of an 8½ x 11 sheet of written electrical instructions, that new spa owners DO NOT put the GFCI OUTSIDE or a SAFETY DISCONNECT IN SIGHT OF THE TUB.

In the 60's or the 70's when these outdated installations were put in they did not meet the current day standards.  The installations were done without forsight or knowledge of the impending event that could or would occur in the future.

Today's Hot Tub manufacturers are not the problem here, and the unfortunate accidents that happen, happen every day from falls, crashes, impacts and in this case entrapment.  Leave it to the lawyers to find and place fault, and leave it to the politicians to bring it to the forefront for publicity and political gain.

Manufactured Hot Tubs are made to exacting standards are are safe from entrapment until someone uses them under the influence of drugs or alcohol at elevated temperaturs and they drown.  I am certain IF and WHEN is may occur, lawyers will fault everything in sight.

In the meantime, you can rest assured, Hot Tub manufacturers are well aware of the potential hazards they must protect us all from.