It seems to be Taboo

[Balsam41]

First post to this forum ,but I have basically  read all the 290 previous pages of posts.
My question is this. Why is it that we all have to go around in circles trying to figure out if we got a decent deal on a spa. What I mean is this. The posters put out a price that there being given on a tub. They come here and ask if it sounds ok. The so called experts(I mean salesman) that frequent this forum chime in with there blessing. I want to know what the spa costs the dealer !!! I know that not all retailers get the same pricing but I wish I could have a general idea.That way I would add on what I think is fair and go from there. Sort of like buying a car. Anymore with sites like edmunds one can see what the car there interested in costs. I know you guys have the answers so please confess  !I'm interest in a 2006 Hotsprings Vista. What am I looking at?  The dealer wants $10885. for an 05
without ozone . I got a feeling that price is way out of hand. If not, then I better look at the Envoy or some other brand. My problem is that this area has limited  choices  (Gainesville Fl) .
Thanks for  any input !!

[Vinny]

First post to this forum ,but I have basically  read all the 290 previous pages of posts.

Since you've read all the pages, you know the answer to your question!!!!

[Balsam41]

Either I missed it , or this is the first post asking for the dealers costi.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

1. What you think is fair, and what it costs the dealer to actually stay in business are probably 2 very different numbers.

2. Edmunds does NOT tell you what a vehicle REALLY costs the dealer. They only report the PUBLISHED invoice cost. Depending on volume, a dealer can actually pay FAR less than the published price.

Do you know the wholesale cost of the last tv, refrigerator, stove, couch, or heck, even the last apple you bought (you might be VERY surprised at the markup of apples by the way.............. I can just see making the grocer an "offer").

[Balsam41]

Maybe I shouldn't acknowledge that I am an accountant (30years)so I know what it costs to run a business  !!
I sort have figured that I would be stonewalled ,but had to ask anyway !! Who knows, maybe someone will come through.

[Bill_Stevenson]

I am a consumer, not a dealer.  My take on this question goes like this:  The dealer cost for an item, any item from cars to spas to chickens is confidential.  It is not ethical for a dealer to disclose true cost to any customer.  A savy consumer knows that books like Edmunds are bogus, no let me say that again BOGUS, and we have no idea what the dealer cost is for any vehicle.  It actually changes constantly as manufacturers offer spiffs, and volume incentives, and special package discounts, and so on.  Any business disclosing costs is in the business of going out of business.

This man's question is not a reasonable request.  

Regards,

Bill

[hottubdan]

Maybe I shouldn't acknowledge that I am an accountant (30years)so I know what it costs to run a business Ê!!
I sort have figured that I would be stonewalled ,but had to ask anyway !! Who knows, maybe someone will come through.

So, in your opinion, if the invoice for a Superspa was $5000, what should the retale price be for:

spa
cover
ozone
lifter
step
chems
freight to dealer
delivery to backyard

Dan

[mattNY]

Whoa, holy backlash guys!  I don't think Balsam was accusing you of being filthy cheating liars.    We know you're in business to make money, nothing wrong with that.

I made a similar post before, I was curious not necessarily about what the dealers pay but how to know how much is a "fair" price.  I *think* that's all Balsam was asking, and I don't think that's an unreasonable question to ask, especially if he's in an area with few dealers.  After all, we know you guys are great, but there are a lot of unscrupulous dealers out there that would just love to rake people over the coals if they are totally clueless about how much something "should" cost.

However, Balsam, what it's going to boil down to for you is what are your choices, since your dealer options *are* limited.  I'd suggest visiting all the spa dealers in your area to get an idea on pricing across the board for many different models, then you have something to compare against.  (After all, even if a dealer across the country sells it for $2k less, it doesn't do you any good.)

Edit: I just saw Chas recommended the same sort of thing at the very end of his post.  And he forgot to mention the most important cost of all: hiring those skimpy bikini models!!  

[Balsam41]

Thanks MattNY !  I feel like I'm getting my head bitten off !!

I just want to know what is a fair price , not put you guys out of business  !!

Looks like I struck a nerve  !

Now how about a FAIR price on an 06 Vista ?

[salesdvl]

Who knows, maybe someone will come through.

I think the dealer cost of a Hot Spring Vista is somewhere around $12 (plus shipping).  The Envoy is only $8 so it should be cheaper.    

[hottubdan]

After the government gets through with us, then all the insurance companies, you have no idea how hard it is to sit there and know that people are out there scheming to try to take that last stupid buck of profit away from you.

In this case, I don't feel like Balsom is trying to take anyone's profit away.  In a nontransparent industry with negociating, some consumers are going to wonder if they paid too much, and dealers are going to wonder if they charged too little.

[Mendocino101]

I am going to come clean. I think what you want to know is reasonable and fair. I think most dealers pay about 20 to 40 dollars for their spas. Mine are special and cost me way way more than that but all the other guys pay between 20 and 40 .....

[jnsjr58]

Wow!!!!!  The simple fact that not one dealer felt comfortable enough to step forward and respond to this post really blows me away. My business ( building materials ) has the same cost base + 100 as Chas pointed out and we work on about 10% overall markup. We do move a lot of product everyday, where a spa dealer may average selling....I don't know... 2 per week?
I would have to guess they work on a 40-60% mark up, based on how many they can move. Net net  I would guess they realize 25% per sale. But they, like the rest of us, go to work to make money, they took a risk to open their shop, work long hours and put up with a lot of BS on a daily basis. I hope they all make a nice living   and I hope they are there to help us out when we need em.

[joshua45]

I don't know if this is any indication of 'dealer cost'.. but I just brought an 05 (never filled.. last one in the store) and paid better then 70% less then 'suggested retail' (normal asking price'.. and that was with stairs, cover, lifter, start up chemicals, delivery, ozonator and 60 amp box and breaker (GFIC)....  Perhaps I "STOLE" it (according to the dealers here'.. but TRUST ME.. this guy DID NOT LOSS MONEY selling it to me at the price he did.  Yes, he wanted to 'get rid of the tub (05), Yes, it was the last one in the store.. BUT HEY.. he CHOOSE to sell it to me at the price he did (the whole time 'complaining' that "I could get more money for this when my new tubs come in"... I'm simply saying that MOST LIKELY... the mark up is AT LEAST 75-100%...    Bottom line: THIS DEALER DID NOT LOSS MONEY BY SELLING IT TO ME AT 70% less then 'the usual price"...  

[J._McD]

Balsam41, I will side with Chas on this issue, but I would like to point out that he did forget to mention the 15% fuel surcharge that we pay on freight.  Being an accountant, you can readily recognize what that would amount to on a truckload of spas with a freight bill of $2,800, which is the way we buy them.  That's right, an extra $420 on top of the freight charges.  On top of the freight, the dealer either puts a lot of cash up front for the goods or a uses a good credit line that we all pay for as well.  

Now Chas is in a different part of the country than I am, and my freight is probably 5 times greater than his freight, but our utilities are cheaper, so it is needless to say, he and I have different cost of overhead in running our business's as we wait for you, or any other consumer to come in.

We very much do want you to buy. so we must be price competitive with other sellers in our area.  We do not want you to leave with out buying from us because you might not come back.  So, if you believe that dealer gave you a price that was out of range, tell him you came to this web forum, and "searched" the last 25 posts regarding Vistas and 1 of them had a price of $9,185.  

Keep in mind, you have not indicated to us what was included in his price, but never the less, I am sure he will discuss with you WHAT HE considers to be a fair price and you can make your decision.  It might help your cause if you have your check book on the table at the time of discussion.

Now then, on the other hand, this issue of a fair price is a very good point and I would like you to answer hottubdan's question below, WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER TO BE A FAIR PRICE in this scenario?

So, in your opinion, if the invoice for a Superspa was $5000, what should the retale price be for:

spa
cover
ozone
lifter
step
chems
freight to dealer
delivery to backyard

Dan

Let's include the other cost items later for the purpose of this question.  What is a FAIR price?  Is it $5,000 with a 20% margin of $1,250, 30% margin of $2,142, 40% margin of $3,333, 50% margin of $5,000, or do you really think we get a 100%?  Then, deduct the cost of the "extras" that you want included.

I am very interested in your response, as I would be interested in my own accountant's response.  BTW, I know my account charges more profitable business's more than he does marginal business's, which is were we all seem to be.  

When you think about it, we do not make a lot of money in our line of business and we need every dime we can get to do everything consumers expect of us.

Now then, a Vista at $10885 vs. a Vista at $9185 in Arkansas gives you a $1,690 spread, are you getting something different, is there a cost difference in overhead, whats included, is one just a low ball, and then what do you expect of your dealer?

From one business man to another, please answer my question.  What do you consider A Fair Price?