Looking for hottub- questions about brands

[mchilders]

We are looking for a  spa,  and have looked at several places locally, including Cal Spa, Caldera, Viking, Great Lakes, Jacuzzi, Morgan, BullFrog, Marquis, Hot Spring, etc.  Reading posts and reviews here, I gather that Cal Spa is not very good.  From what I have seen Morgan is not a winner either.  We like the Bullfrog design but price seems higher for a comparable spa.  We are looking inexpensive but dont want to get screwed either.  At the local Jacuzzi dealer he showed us some blemished spas (of course at discount, which we like)  those included some great lakes which they sell new as well and some Imperial by Jacuzzi.  This where most my question is.  They had some they said came on the truck of blemished spas as odd balls and didnt know what they were getting.  Some were apparently older Imperials still brand new by stickers and other labels in place in the tub.  He could not tell me much about them and did not know the model, pump size or number, other features.  I tried the Imperial site with no luck, but only one current model which they also had.  I emailed and got a response from Jacuzzi's spa division supervisor which says that they were made for Costco which they do not sell through anymore and so the imperial line is no longer being produced.  But the imperial site says that current one is sold not only through costco but Sams club and Walmart as well and all three have it on their sites.  One would assume that Jacuzzis Spa Division Supervisor would know who they do business with and make spas for, so then why does it conflict with what I see locally and on their site.
While looking at sams and walmarts sites I am interested in the others by Keys Backyard, apparently they bought Image spas here in TX.  How good are they really? Though I do understand the benefit to buying from a dealer which is why I visited the others.  Thanks

[East_TX_Spa]

Welcome to the forum!  There is a lot of great information available on this sight to help you weed through the spa jungle (and it is a jungle!).

There are some Jacuzzi dealers that frequent this board and I'm sure one of them will be along shortly to answer your questions.

What part of the Great and Free State do you call home?

Terminator (Proud Texan)

[DPS]

Image - type - spas are manufactured to be sold through big box retailers.  They are made to be sold at a certain low price point.  Creating as much profit as possible at that price point usually means using the least expensive components available.  With no knowledgeable sales person there to help you, it is uncertain exactly what you are getting, or not getting for your money.  There are plenty of reputable spa retailers here in Texas.  I would recommend finding one you are comfortable with, as they will be there to help you keep enjoying your spa for several years.

[East_TX_Spa]

There are plenty of reputable spa retailers here in Texas.

Terminator

[DPS]

How about there are several reputable spa retailers here in Texas?  

[Vinny]

My local HS dealer also sells Image/Weslo spas (or at least did).

The biggest problem it seems is that they get parts from suppliers and once their gone (probably during manufacturing) their gone. Unless they have an upgraded version in what they have in them (I believe their biggest problems are jets and controllers)  it  can get costly.

It probably is possible for a spa to last 5 or 6 years without a problem but what happens if it doesn't. One year down the line, no warranty and a jet pops out or control board fails - what happens.

The other problem is cost of ownership. Buying a $3000 spa with little insulation will cost more to run. I'm not familiar with TX (sorry Term) but I'm sure having a quality full foam or thermopane spa will save you money in the long run.

There are some manufacturer's that have lower priced lines. Beachcomber has their 300 series, Artesian has their Promo series and they're probably others too.

I too was going to buy a HD type tub when I first started, then I started researching and realized I should buy something a little better quality to make sure it had a future of being able to be repaired. The other thing was someone had a friend who owned one of them and here in NJ in the winter it was costing over $100 a month to run ... and that was 3-5 years ago.

[East_TX_Spa]

How about there are several reputable spa retailers here in Texas?  

I'll vouch for you and me, the rest can sit on a stick!

Terminator

[Vanguard]

I would stick with the companies that have reputable dealers.  Being in Texas, I am sure you have many choices.  Be sure to wet test the spas you like.  That is the only way to know for sure if you like the spa.  Don't go for cheap.  You get what you pay for - and sometimes in the spa industry, you pay a lot and still don't get much.

Look at the major brands.  Hot Spring, Sundance, D1, Marquis, etc.  Each has their selling points and should do well for you.  As you keep shopping, post up what you are looking at and I'm sure you'll get plenty of responses.

BTW, where in Texas do you live?

[mchilders]

We're in San Antonio,  havent seen an artesian dealer and havent visited the D1 and Sundance dealer yet.  How good are the Great Lakes spas?  The Caldera dealer dealt with Marquis as well but said they were getting out of the Marquis line (Sweetwater spa)  we had been looking at some of the lower lines of the major ones, and thats where Imperial came in that I was asking about.  
I had a Keys backyard guy call me.  He seemed more on the home depot side (caller id was keys B)  I asked about service and he said "huh, I dont know" and moved on (quickly!)  I asked again later and he told me the parts are here in texas. (since they are made in Mesquite).  That was enough for a couple of red flags.
I thought maybe someone here had some experience with them.  Since their aquisition of Image is recent, I consider them too.  But I think well be getting from someone else!
Current models were considering are Great Lakes Ottawa, Penta and the Imperial model (Jacuzzi) Winchester.  Any suggested models?  I like the lounge and the wife likes the open seats- less sculpted for ease of movement.

[hymbaw]

I'm a Great Lakes dealer(as well as Sundance) My experience has been nothing but positive with the Great Lakes line. The Geloy material they use to make the shells is unique and comes in some awesome colors. Great Lakes makes a great tub for the $$.

By the way, the Ottawa has been discontinued.

[Vanguard]

If you are looking at Caldera as well, I'd look at the Moorea.  It is a very nice spa and should be a mid-level price.  It is a new spa for Caldera this year.  My friend who is a Caldera dealer says he has had success with that spa this year.  Also, the Caldera Martinique is a great buy in the size  you are looking for.

[In Canada eh]

We too just went through the pains of purchasing our first hot tub.  Had no idea what a racket the spa market is, and how difficult it is to make a comfortable decision!  And just when you think you've made one, you'll find some negative comments about the model or manufacturer you're about to buy .... so then you have to sort through what opinions are legitimate and which ones are planted by sleazy dealers deliberately set out to slam the competition.  (that's why I like this forum -- it doesn't permit such opportunities)  In the end, it all comes down to gut feeling -- about the product suitability and quality, life expectancy, insulation, operating costs, and dealer reliability/stability.

I was pleased to see you tried the Bullfrog, as it is seldom mentioned on this forum.   We had narrowed our choice down to Hot Springs, Caldera, Catalina and Bullfrog and have just ordered the Bullfrog 451.  We're excited to receive it.  We chose the Bullfrog because it appears to be a quality tub with simplicity, flexibility, and a good warranty.  We have bought into the idea that with majority of plumbing being within the tub, there will be less heat loss, and less risk of external leaks.   With large $$ purchases like a hot tub, etc. I always look for quality in the basics rather than lots of toys that could mean more opportunity for problems.

There seems to be only one member on this forum who has a Bullfrog or will talk about it.  I do often wonder why that is.  The dealers on this site seem to indicate they don't know much about it and therefore won't comment -- but if a new innovative competitor came on the market, what good manufacturer or dealer wouldn't find out everything they could about it?  Its good business to know your competition.... so then I think either they think its a really crappy product & are keeping quiet about it, or they think its a great product but since there are patents on its design, they can't (yet) copy it to compete apples-to-apples??  I am hoping some of the HS, Caldera & other reputable brand dealers on this forum will take this bait & comment  (and hope I don't regret this)  yikes!

Anyhow, I can only hope we'll be happy with our Bullfrog.

I suggest writing down what you know is MOST important to YOU in a hot tub, so you can keep going back to it and stay focused.  This will help prevent the sales pitches about features you didn't care about from penetrating your brain.

And finally, to address your question about the blemished spas referred to, I agree with the others and would personally steer away from big store type tubs that may have little to none after-market servicability.  I love a good deal and often buy cheap -- but only for items I'm okay tossing out when they break.

When negotiating price, rather than ask the dealer to reduce the price on the hot tub, bring them your own proposal or Offer to Purchase, with a complete list of everything you want as a package (including chemicals, steps, ozonator, Nature2, spare filters, taxes, etc.) with an out-the-door package price you're prepared to pay right then if they accept it.  They'll usually decline it but counter-offer slightly higher still giving you a really good discount nonetheless!   This way, you can't say you paid $5,000 for a tub that the dealer sold to someone else for $5,600 -- it would be bad business if other customers found out.  Rather, you just got a customized package price and really have no idea where the discounts were applied.

I wish you great fun and luck in your hot tub search, and am sure you'll find the perfect one for you!

[shabba34]

There seems to be only one member on this forum who has a Bullfrog or will talk about it.  I do often wonder why that is.  The dealers on this site seem to indicate they don't know much about it and therefore won't comment -- but if a new innovative competitor came on the market, what good manufacturer or dealer wouldn't find out everything they could about it?  Its good business to know your competition.... so then I think either they think its a really crappy product & are keeping quiet about it, or they think its a great product but since there are patents on its design, they can't (yet) copy it to compete apples-to-apples??  I am hoping some of the HS, Caldera & other reputable brand dealers on this forum will take this bait & comment  (and hope I don't regret this)  yikes!

I personally don't comment on the Bullfrog product because they don't effect my sales or even enter onto my sales floor as competition.  I am fully aware of the product and it's claims as a MFG.  Most people won't comment only due to the fact that Bullfrogs dealer network is too small and does not effect business as much as the larger, more established MFGs.

Congrats on your purchase and I wish you luck in the long term.  

[hymbaw]

No dealers here , never seen one. therefore no comment!

[East_TX_Spa]

Here's what I wrote at the first of the month.

Re: Bullfrog?
« Reply #5 on: Apr 1st, 2006, 2:13pm »  Quote  Modify  Remove  

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Bullfrog seem to be a well-made spa from where I sit.  They have some things I like (full foam) and some things I don't care for (no circ-pump, jet-packs).  There is a dealer here that has sold them for 3 years.
 
A girl that worked at our Shreveport store sold them for awhile and she had this to say about them:
 
1.  The jet pressure was not very good
2.  They leaked quite a bit
3.  The jetpacks DID tend to stink
4.  The jetpacks were fragile
 
A couple of my customers have friends who bought the Bullfrogs, but both of them sold them within a year.
 
Give them a wet test and if you like the product, the dealer, and you believe you are getting a good deal, go for it.  
 
Terminator