Electrical question-set up

[joshua45]

I just brought a tub and the brochure says I need a 4 wire.. The current draw is only 30 am but the GFIC is rated at 50 amp.  An 'electrician' said I would need to run a number 6 gauge wire... Isn't that pretty thick and do I really need that thick of a wire?  I will be running aproximately 80 foot from the breaker box to the GFIC and tub... Any thoughts? Anyone know the cost of aproximately 100 ft. of 4 wire #6??

[tjvm]

I will anxiously await the responses because I too will need an 80 foot run.  My guess is it will cost around $1 to $1.50 a foot.

[tonyp]

I'm not sure of the wire cost but the wire must match the breaker not the draw.  I don't think that it will be but if 8 ga wire is much cheaper you could replace the GFCI.

[galen]

What gfci? Was it already on the house or in the tub? If it is on the tub and its 50 amp then you will need to put in #6 gauge. I don't understand 30 amp draw. Is this a breaker that was already in the service box? Or are you going by the owners manual?

[anne]

I paid $2/foot (0.50/foot for each "strand") of #6 at Home Depot in Sac, CA.

[jim97219]

Johsua,

I think you'll find your "electrician" may or may not be right.  I'm not an an electrician but as I understand things, 80' is right at the maximum distance for #6 wire. You may want to consider running #4 wire at least from the panel to the disconnect.  You can then #6 from the disconnect to the tub itself.  Also, check the temperature rating of whatever wire you buy.  I think you'll find code requires wire rated at 90º C.  This usually means running THHN wire in conduit as it's rated at the 90º C you need.

With all due respect to you and your abilities, your question leads me to believe you're a bit of a novice when it comes to wiring.  Frankly, a hot tub isn't a good place to learn.  Here's a post you might want to take a look at: http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/config.pl?noframes;read=86240.  I'm not saying you can't do the work but you might be well served in seeking out some professional help.  Regardless of who wires the tub, I strongly urge you to get a permit and have it inspected.

Please do report back on how everything goes.

Jim

[Brewman]

 What's up with this 30 amp draw 50 amp breaker stuff?

You need to use a GFI breaker sized as the manufacturer of your spa requires.  If the mfg. specifies a 50 amp breaker for your spa, you HAVE to run #6 wire, period.  You cannot put #8 wire on a 50 amp breaker (in most cases).

IF your manufacturer says to use a 30 or 40 amp breaker, get one and install it.  And use #6 wire even if it's not required.  Some day you or someone else may want to replace that spa, and you might have to at that time install a 50 or even 60 amp breaker for it.  You'd already have the correct size wire in place.  
Else, you'd have to re-wire.  Cheap insurance if you ask me.

[Skellman]

Not only does Brewman have a cool name, he is also absolutely correct.
Do not skimp with the electrical.
#6 at the least.
While you can fit four #6 wires in a 3/4" conduit, (that's the max, by the way) I'd go the extra step and run 1" conduit too. That will make the pull easier.

[anne]

While you can fit four #6 wires in a 3/4" conduit, (that's the max, by the way) I'd go the extra step and run 1" conduit too. That will make the pull easier.

I thought 1" was required, not just recommended?

[Skellman]

I thought 1" was required, not just recommended?
[/quote]

According to my trusty NEC handbook, the maximum number of #6 wires is a 3/4" conduit is four.
Now, I'm not sure but perhaps there are different codes per town/village etc. I hope not.
In my case I ran 3/4" but, where the tub will sit (if I ever get one) is literally right on the other side of the wall where my main breaker box is. It's only 4' of wire from the GFI to the main.
Any electricians that care to elaborate?

[Brewman]

There are fill calculations for conduit, but I sure as heck can't figure them out.  Too much math for me.
That's why the professional electricians get paid so well- they have to learn all that stuff, and a LOT more.

But There are rules of thumb, and it's ok to use 3/4" conduit for a 4 wire 6 gauge spa run.  That's for THHN/THWN wire, not romex cable.  
You can upsize as well, if you want.  It is easier pulling wire thru larger conduit.  

[crapjack]

Why 4 wire? What i think you would need is #8/3 wire which consists of a RED, BLACK and either a BLUE or WHITE,and a bare copper ground wire(teck cable)...#8 wire is good for 45 amps-in which you could use a 40 amp gfci breaker for your 30 amp load----check the name plate on spa which will have volts, fla(full load amps) which is what the tub will draw in current(amps) with all pumps, heaters and accessories on and running and that is how you would tell what size of breaker and cable sizing.
I don't understand the concept of going bigger IN CASE in the future you may want to expand? If you want more buy it now...I suggest buy what you need not well maybe....  

[jim97219]

What i think you would need is #8/3 wire which consists of a RED, BLACK and either a BLUE or WHITE,and a bare copper ground wire

You'll find code requires an insulated ground.  The 8/3 wire you're suggesting has, as you know, an uninsulated ground wire.

Also, you might want to check your distance with respect to wire gauge size and derating.  I think that at 80', you're at the point where you'll need to go one gauge heavier.

Finally, I'm in Brewman's and Skellman's court.  Go heavier; you won't regret it.

Jim

[Brewman]

Why 4 wire? What i think you would need is #8/3 wire which consists of a RED, BLACK and either a BLUE or WHITE,and a bare copper ground wire(teck cable)...#8 wire is good for 45 amps-in which you could use a 40 amp gfci breaker for your 30 amp load----check the name plate on spa which will have volts, fla(full load amps) which is what the tub will draw in current(amps) with all pumps, heaters and accessories on and running and that is how you would tell what size of breaker and cable sizing.
I don't understand the concept of going bigger IN CASE in the future you may want to expand? If you want more buy it now...I suggest buy what you need not well maybe....  

Code in our area requires: 2 "hot" leads theses can be any color except white, green, or gray.  They can be the same color as long as they aren't white, green or grey.
Neutral has to be white or grey, and ground has to be green.  That's a total of 4 wires.  Bare ground isn't allowed here.  Some areas may allow romex cable, which is already color coded, but the ground is bare, and isn't allowed.  Other areas may differ.  

I suggested going to #6 because: It's not THAT much more expensive.  And the original poster didn't exactly specifiy what setup he had.  The 30 amp "draw" on a 50 amp breaker makes no sense.  And NEC REQUIRES that if you do have a 50 amp breaker you cannot use #8 wire.  The wire is sized to the breaker, the breaker sized to the spa.  If the spa maker requires a 50 amp breaker, then #6 wire must be used.  If this spa need a smaller breaker than 50, then lighter wire may be allowed.
I also recommended that #6 be run because once wire is placed, it can be extremely difficult to remove and re-install.  
In the event that this spa is ever replaced, (they don't last forever) it is possible that the replacement spa could require #6 wire.  
I'm guessing that more spas require the #6 than anything smaller.  
The cost difference between #6 and #8 wire is pretty small in regard to the cost of purchasing and installing a spa.  You won't even notice the extra expense, most likely.   So if the day ever comes that this wire is needed, it already there.  No need to re buy the wire, rip out the old stuff, and try pulling new wire.  
Pay an extra small amount now, to avoid paying a significant extra cost in the future.  
And it never hurts to up your wire by one size anyway.
To me it's a no-brainer.