Spa Tech Hot Spring Question?

[SpaSalesMan]

when you say balanced filtration i assume you mean like hot spring.  But hotspring does not have balanced filtration.  Balanced filtration is squar footage of filters compared to gallons per minute. But a Sovereign moves 90 gallons per minute through 2 30 square foot filters, the third filter is dedicated to the silent flo 5000 which moves 5000 gallons of water a day, or 3.47 per minute.  With this spa the filtration is 60 square feet and 93.47 gallons per minute.. All in all, there is no such thing as balanced filtration is there?

[wendy]

I see you have mentioned the Sovereign from Hot Springs, I have been checking out Hot Tubs for about a month now.  I think I may have decided to go with the Sovereign, but what is making me hesitate is the price is so much higher than any other Hot Tub out there that I have found.  Please help me!! Thanks

[SpaSalesMan]

I have sold hot spring spas in the past.  They are a great buy, but i agree the price is too high.  I would sell them again if a Sovereign went for $5,995.00.  The power of the jets is somewhat week and is due to the filtration system.  The spas pump works off of a no-bipass fitering system that restricts the water flow to the pump.  The pressure is sub par for a model selling in the seven thousand dollar range.  The circulation pump moves 3.47 gallons per minute and draws from beneth the water line.  It pulls from the circular hole under the skimmer door.  I found this to be a problem because the pump never comes on during the day to "Skim" water off of the surface.  This has been known to cause a scum line on the spa that needs to be cleaned daily.  It is as if Watkins Mfg knows of this problem but is too set in their ways to change it.  Though i see flaws in the spa, it is a reliable unit.  I have started selling a comparable brand of spas now that are similar in features but much more powerfull and have much more to offer.  Always wet test before you buy.(atleast dry test) Some spas are very uncomfortable with standard up-right seating.  The spas I now sell, I belive to be the best the indusrty offers at a bit below Hot Spring prices.  If you do buy a hot spring, you did a good job, its just my opinion that there are better spas out there these days.

[BV]

Please tell us what brand you now sell.

[SpaSalesMan]

im not here to sell hot tubs.  even if a buyer was in my area, i wouldnt solicit them. I have a lot of experience with Hot Spring and Sundance, ive sold both, but do not sell either now. I have found a product that meets them in the middle and found great success with it.

[Spa Tech]

What Ive been taught about balanced filtration is that for every 4 gallons of water you should have 1 square foot of available filter space. Most of the 'generic' spa companies install the same 50 Sq ft filter cartridge regardless of the spas water capacity.

Ive even seen a 25 Sq ft filter cartridge on a 400 gallon spa in the past and the results of such inadequate filtration is unnecessary stress on the pumps and a constant need to clean the filter cartridge.


Despite the previous comments about HotSpring, they do fall into the balanced filtration formula.

As an example, the Sovereign has a water capacity of 355 gallons of water--divided by 4 is 88.75 Sq ft of minimum filter space. The Sovereign is equipped with three 30 Sq ft filter cartridges for a total of 90 Sq ft of filter space...

This formula can be applied to any make to assess whether or not it has adequate filtration for the amount of water the spa can hold. If the spa has inadequate filter space for the amount of water, the spa will either over-tax the pumping equiptment or simply draw unfiltered water through the filter bypass and allow sedimentation to collect inside the pump.

I hope this has clarified the balanced filtration comment that Ive make in preceeding posts.

[SpaSalesMan]

no hot spring sovereign model has only 60 square feet.  The third filer is dedicated only to the circ pump.  When you speek of usage, there are only two filters working off the pumps.  The circ pump filter is filtering only 3.47 gallons of water per minute.  I see your point but when hot spring claims balanced filtration, they speak of gallons per minute vs. square footage of filtration.  They mislead people by not telling them that the filtering system is filtering 60.347 gallons while the pumps are moving 90.347 gallons per minute. I do not think that this is poor filtration, though as i pointed out the spa does not skim and does get a scum line, the honesty in manufacturers brochures is poor.  Like the no-fault 6000 heater, they claim it will never wear out yet the old stlye heater submersed in water lasts about 6-7 years and costs 90-100 while the new heater has the same warranty and costs 300-400 to replace..(which one is better?)

[Peggy]

I have a Hot Spring Prodigy used on a daily basis.
I don't have the scum line that you mention.  My water
is very clear.  The jets are powerful enough to push me
out of the seats.

[Spa Tech]

First, Id like to emphasize that I'm not an expert on HotSpring spas,... but I do however want to make it clear I really would rather not have anyone misled about any of the products being described on the forum. This includes the inference in the above, and the other previous posts youve made on the forum in reguards to HotSprings filtration.

As youve stated above the jet pump draws through two of the 30 Sqft filters while the third is dedicated to the circulation pump. However to discount the circulation pump as a passive filtration device is misleading. On spas theyve produced since 1990 and all the models theyve made since, the spa operates the circulation pump continously and is the primary filtration device even after the jet pump has been activated. This in fact, does utilize all 90 Sqft of filtration space once the jet pump has been activated. As far as I know, this was designed specifically to eliminate the programmed, timed cycles you've mentioned before.

Furthermore, I researched your claim about the HotSprings brochure and at no point are there claims made that their heater will never wear out. They do point out that it is designed so that the element does not come in contact with the water and that the heater is unconditionally warranted for 5 years. In the past the warranty was conditional... If you didnt keep your water chemistry within recommended tolerances the heater would not be covered under the warranty and the customer would absorb the replacement cost. I must admit the expence of the new style heater is significantly greater than that of the prior heating element they were using, but since the element doesnt come in contact with the water, I can see it being a significantly more reliable appliance than that of those immersed in water.

It is obvious we have some differences in opinion, which is healthy. They way we go about it however, should be balanced, so I do welcome futher debate on the topics explored here via e-mail since we've already
reiterated most of your concerns and my rebutals more than once.

For the forums further edification, Ive added a link to HotSprings current warranty page below.

[Spa Tech]

www.hotspring.com/Built/warranty.html


Cut and paste- hyperlinks appear not to be working.

[SpaSalesMan]

opperating all the jets at the same time in your sap, they are very week, the pump only moves 90 gallons per minute.  Maybe your water in your part of the country is different. I sold hot springs for five years and still think its one of the best spas out there.the prodigy was my favorite model, Congratulations on your purchase, you did well.  There are a couple of things that i did not like about the product.  One is the three filters, i think they need to be larger so that you dont have to rotate and change them as often.  The dealer here charges 50 a piece for new ones.The other is that the water in the plumbing lines, is never filtered.  Bacteria, viruses, and paper algea grow 24 hours a day in hot, dark water.  You should drain and clean that spa every 90 days. Yet the spa is very energy efficient and reliable and I consider it one of the best (my second choice)

[SpaSalesMan]

In the Hot Spring 2000 Brochure it states and I QUOTE "Balanced fitration on a spa mean that the gallons per minute on the pumps is equal to the square footage of the filters" YOU ARE WRONG. The pump generates 90 gallons per minute and there is 60 square feet in filtration.  The filter in the circ pump moves 3.47 gallons per minute. The circ pump filter is not drawing water into the jet pump. I do think that the circ pump is a great product for filtration, you are missing my point on that.  I in fact stated that they have a wonderfull filtration system (with exception of the pump not skimming the surface)I am not misrepresenting anything at all. What they state and what is true is different.  I do consider myself an expert on Hot Spring Spas.  Ive been to 3 (40 hours each) technical seminars at the factory.  How can you make accusations of me misleading anyone? I have never said HS was a bad spa, just that there are a few things on it that I do not agree with.  If you knew the wholesale pricing on hot spring spas, you too wold agree that they are above the price ANY SPA SHOULD BE. I am not trying to sell anyone a spa here, just stating that manufacturers sometimes mislead the public.  I too would think a hot spring filtered 90 gallons per minute if I didnt know any better.  You state that you feel balanced filtration is 1 square foot per every 4 gallons.  WHO MADE YOU THE EXPERT? That is not what Hot Spring suggests in their brochure.  My advice would be that you read the posts in their entirety before you respond, you seem like you get mad half way through and post a message back.

[Chas]

Who keeps dredging up these old posts?

[Gomboman]

Maybe you have a virus Chas.

Who keeps dredging up these old posts?

[Vanguard]

Where did this thing come from?  2000?  Geez.