still having pH problems

[anne]

OK, so I posted last week b/c my pH was so high, even though I added dry acid a few times, about 1/2 oz at a time. Since the last addition, I waited 48 hr, then just rechecked the pH with my Taylor kit: 7.8! (Same as before acid). I double checked it, too. Funny thing is, the test strip says 7.3.

My TA has gone from 110 to 90. Assumably from adding acid.

So I'm wondering a few things:

1. Is that TA "low" enough (even though it is the "acceptable 80-120 range) to make my pH hard to manage? (And if anyone does recommend increasing TA, how to do so without increasing pH?)

2. Do I believe the titration pH of 7.8 or the strip at 7.3? Why so different?? I think the test kit version should be more accurate, and if so, why is it so flippin' high still? I'll add more acid, I guess, but what if the 7.3 is right?

3. My water was a bit cloudy today, and now I am concerned that high pH is interfering with the relatively small doses of chlorine I have been using (1tsp after each soak, resulting in a post-tx Cl of 2ppm). So I added 2 tsp tonight. I saw no need to "shock" as I have no combined cl- just thought I needed a little more per dose to counteract the high pH. Was that a good idea?

thanks!

[TrikkeAddict]

At 7.8 your pH is not that high - you should be aiming for 7.6.  Give it a few days and then check again.  I would not believe the test strips.

[Vinny]

Anne,

Although some (many) people don't agree with my saying - worry about the PH and not about the alkalinity - when you're close to good PH, that's what I would do - worry about the PH.

What TrikkeAddict said I agree with. I don't remember if you're using bromine or dichlor but dichlor is at a PH of about 7 and I think bromine is even lower. Regular use of both will bring down the PH and alk and in a few days test the PH after adding your sanitizer.

If after the PH gets down to the "correct" range and you see it bounce all over - then worry about the alk. In MY (bolded because it seems to work for me) tub, I've noticed that my PH and alk go up and down together ... if at PH 7.6 it'll stay there for a few weeks (alk approx 90 or100) as the PH drifts down, 7.4 it'll last maybe 2 weeks but at 7.2  the PH starts to decline rapidly.  This may work for you or it may not.

As far as testing ... buy a CHEAP OTO test kit that tests for PH and chlorine/bromine and see what the reading is or go to your dealer and see what they test it at.

Vinny

[wmccall]

I would believe the Taylor and not the strip.  7.8ph and alk of 90?  I would leave it alone and not check again for a week.  

[anne]

As far as testing ... buy a CHEAP OTO test kit that tests for PH and chlorine/bromine and see what the reading is or go to your dealer and see what they test it at.

I already have a test kit- using the Taylor K2005 that I got from the good doctor.

I'm using chlorine, not bromine.

OK, I'll leave it all alone. I REALLY thought that I was level headed enough to avoid the newbie-mistake of over analyzing my water chemisty. Guess not- I'm just a control freak

I realize that 7.8 is not disasterous, I just dont understand how adding  a little chlorine each day (mildly acidifying) and a total of 3-4 oz of dry acid over the last 10 days, I still have the same pH. Even if it is not a problem, it bothers me b/c it doesn't make sense.

I guess I'll go soak on it.....

[hottubdan]

Anne,

Relax, you seem to be doing fine.  The pH bounces back up because the water is not balanced...or maybe it needs to be high because of the hardness level of the water.  Your Taylor kit has the balancing wheel, doesn't it?  When you account for the hardness level, what does it suggest the pH and TA should be?

[Vinny]

I already have a test kit- using the Taylor K2005 that I got from the good doctor.
.....

My comment about the OTO test kit was basically to say that buying another cheap kit ($5) would give you piece of mind on which reading was correct - the Taylor or strips. Whenever I test something and use 2 different methods that are off, I choose a 3rd and different method. It keeps things in perspective.

If I got a 3rd different reading, well ... that's another story.

[anne]

Vinny- ok, I get it. Actually, ironically I have a $7 kit that I bought before I realized I wanted water hardness and free vs total chlorine......I was going to return it, but this just may be worth a $7 investment. Why didn't I think of that???

Dan- Dont have the wheel in front of me, but if memory serves, with my hardness a constant at about 450, I was aiming for a TA of 110 and pH of 7.2-7.4. Setting the wheel with that TA and hardness, with the temp at 104, the pH on the wheel was 7.0 (with 0.5 +/-) So I figured that I was safe up to 7.4, but did not want to go much higher for the sake of efficient chlorine.

Does hard water have a tendancy toward a basic pH?

[anne]

UPDATE:

pH is still 7.8 according to Taylor test kit AND cheap $6 kit. TA is now down to 70. Do I add bicarb and dry acid? Seems like my tub may turn to salt :-/.

[drewstar]

Me? If my water was clear and clean, I wouldn't worry about it.  

Is that a mistake?

[Vinny]

7.8 although high isn't extremely high. Do you have some unbuffered MPS? If yes, through some of that in, it has a PH of about 4.

Do you know what your calcium level is? Take a look at the Taylor watergram:

With a Alk level of 70:

At a Cal level of 80 and a water Temp of 104 - PH is above 7.8 and at 100 it's about 8.0.

At a Cal level of 150 and a water temp of 104 - PH is 7.7 and at 100 it's slightly more.

At a Cal level of 200 and a water Temp of 104 - PH is slightly under 1.5 and at 100 it's 7.6.

I still believe your water is balanced and not to worry. PH will come down. I sometimes have a PH of 7.8 for a couple of weeks but I make sure my levels are within +/- 0.5 as stated by Taylor.

[hottubdan]

Add bicarb today.  Check and adjust pH tomorrow.  If you are using dichlor as I think you are, the chlorine might be eating the TA.

Maybe the Canadian spa is reacting to US water?

[anne]

7.8 although high isn't extremely high. Do you have some unbuffered MPS? If yes, through some of that in, it has a PH of about 4.

Do you know what your calcium level is? Take a look at the Taylor watergram:

With a Alk level of 70:

 At a Cal level of 80 and a water Temp of 104 - PH is above 7.8 and at 100 it's about 8.0.

 At a Cal level of 150 and a water temp of 104 - PH is 7.7 and at 100 it's slightly more.

 At a Cal level of 200 and a water Temp of 104 - PH is slightly under 1.5 and at 100 it's 7.6.

I still believe your water is balanced and not to worry. PH will come down. I sometimes have a PH of 7.8 for a couple of weeks but I make sure my levels are within +/- 0.5 as stated by Taylor.

The problem is that my calcium level is 400-500. That is why I'm pushing to get my pH down.

I dont have any unbuffered MPS at the moment, but will be ordering some from the good doctor tonight.

For now, I'll do as Dan suggests- add bicarb and check the pH again tomorrow.

Maybe I have to import water form Canada? My dealer did NOT warn me about that expense!!!!!!!!!

[Vinny]

Anne,

As you add bicarb, you'll be raising PH also. The good thing is that bicarb has a PH of 8.4 so that's the max the water can get.

The higher you get in alkalinity you need to go down in PH because of your high calcium. Is your fill water naturally high in calcium?

[anne]

Anne,

As you add bicarb, you'll be raising PH also. The good thing is that bicarb has a PH of 8.4 so that's the max the water can get.

The higher you get in alkalinity you need to go down in PH because of your high calcium. Is your fill water naturally high in calcium?

I do have naturally hard water. I know that that means I want to aim for a more acidic pH- thus my current frustration. What I had not thought about is this "higher you get in alkalinity you need to go down in PH because of your high calcium".......I guess I could keep my TA lower, I just assumed that getting it in the middle of the "normal"range was better, since I'd have less pH fluctuation.

I figured that adding bicarb could not hurt too much since the water is already so basic...then once TA was a little higher, I'd start adding acid.

I think I may end up a fan of non-buffered MPS as a shock, both to help this crazy high pH and so I can soak as soon as possible after adding.

I just tested my tap water with the Taylor kit to find out where my water "started" and it is pH 8.0, TA 70. Almost where I am now.