Hot Spring "Cost guarantee"

[mxw128]

Anybody out there see a guarantee from their hotspring dealer guaranteeing that their spas will not cost more than $20/month to operate?

That was part of my dealer's sales pitch.  When I asked what they did about it, he said they would come and put a meter on my tub and if it did cost me more than $20/month (based on kWh usage and current rates) they would pay the difference.

Anyone know if Hotspring has ever actually followed through on this?  

I've had my tub since August and I've been doing some analyis on my bills, looks like the impact to me is much more than $20 a month!

[Snyper]

I had this pile driven into my sales pitch as well. It really turned me off because just minutes before, there was an irate customer there complaining about the ways they checked. Seems the meter they used was not one that the utility company came out and used.

[Hot Tub Guru]

Please let me know the stipulations of how they go about testing/paying the differance of your electrical bill.

Thanks,
Michael

[mxw128]

When I called the dealer he directed me to the service number of their main office.  I called them and they seemed a little surprised that I had asked about it.  She said that she had never been asked the question about it before.  I don't want to rush to conclusions, because they've always been helpful in the past.  (the dealer didn't always follow through on his commitments, but that's another story...)

I'd bet HS counts on folks either  not noticing, forgettign about it or not taking the time to work out the numbers.  (or maybe the tubs ARE that good!    ) I'll let you know what happens...

[hottubdan]

Hot Spring Energy Guarantees are actually dealer guarantees, not manufacturer guarantees.  Typically they are based on specific usage guidelines.

Following the guidelines, typically 101 degrees f, using tub 6 times a week, 15 minutes jets on, 15 minutes jets off, an EE (Energy Efficient) Hot Spring is going to use 200 kwh +/- depending on your ambient temperature.  Laws of physics.  That is the power that is going to be consumed.

My questions would be:
1. What model do you have?
2. What is your use pattern?
3. What is your ambient temperture?
4.  How much do you pay per kwh?
5. How does the guarantee read?

You can go to the HotSpring web site and use the energy calculator and it will be pretty close.

A HP(High Performance) model will cost a little more.

Hope this helps.

Dan

[East_TX_Spa]

As a dealer, we've never offered it.  It's never been an issue in 20 years.  I have yet seen a customer of ours come in and say their electric bill went up.  The only comments I've heard are "We've seen no increase in our electric bill."

It's a type of sales gimmick.  Every retail store on the planet has one or more of them.

Terminator

[salesdvl]

I agree with Term, I sold HS for over 20 years and we only had 1 guy complain about his electric bill.  Turns out he put in central air and was trying to scam us.  

[Mendocino101]

It is a very open ended promise as how much a spa is used is certainly going to effect its cost. I admire the dealers who stay away from using this as it is misleading. I know Hot Springs makes a fine product and is as energy efficient as any out there, its just most of the better made spas of comparable size will cost "about" the same each month.

[mxw128]

I certainly agree that it is an open ended guarantee.  I had the same conversation with the sales folks, telling them that the amount of use and energy costs must make honoring the warranty difficult.  His reply was the same, that they only had a "few" people pursue it. 

What made me wonder about the costs was the fact that my electric bill was way higher than my friends and neighbors in similar houses, (and I have high efficiency furnace and A/C units)  When I ran the numbers and looked at kWh used inthe months before and after installing the tub and compared them to the same timeframe last year, there was a noticable difference after the tub was installed.  It wil be good if/when they do install a meter and I can be sure.  I'm not necessarily complaining about the electric bills, (I'm sure that the HS tub will be comparable in cost to operate as its competitors), but none of the competitors were willing to offer a "guarentee".  So as part of the sales package, I'm curious to see how they honor it.  
 

[Chas]

Just a note: I have observed a $50 or $60 jump in the first month of spa ownership. It seems to happen no matter what model my customer selects.

After that first month, most of my customers report less than a dollar a day, depending on use and jet pump size.

I have metered tubs over the years, and generally they use less than people expect. Why the jump during the first month? I can't be certain, but I think it has to do with the folks being home more, opening the tub lid many extra times per day, making adjustments up and down in temperature, and so forth.

[Bonibelle]

Chas...My electric bill has gone sky high. I think what you say is right, opening the tub so often (and for me trying to reduce the bromine levels), but in my house, no one will use a towel more than one time. That means that I wash and dry almost twice the number of towels just about every day!  :-/

[Gomboman]

MXW, what model do you own? How much is electricity in your area? How much has your bill increased? Be assured that Hotspring spas are about as efficient as they come.  

I've never heard of a Cost Guarantee before since it depends on your usage, cost of electricity, and temperature delta between your set water temp and outside temp. I personally think a dealer would be crazy to make a "Cost Guarantee". The cost guarantee wouldn't apply in most parts of California. If I used 200 kWh's of electricity my bill would be around $40. I pay $.20 per Kwh in Southern California which is on the high side.

Hottubdan or another HS dealer, how much more electricity would a HP model use following your 200 Kwh example?

[jsimo7]

Hot Spring Energy Guarantees are actually dealer guarantees, not manufacturer guarantees.

When I was shopping for my spa one dealer made that 'cost guarantee'. It didn't sway me to buy from them, I bought it from a dealer that didn't offer that guarantee

[mxw128]

MXW, what model do you own? How much is electricity in your area? How much has your bill increased?

I own a Vanguard.  My current electric rate is $.0793 / kWh.  Comparing the six months prior to owning the tub with the six months after (and looking at the same time periods the previous year to account for seasonal differences) and without going into standard deviations and such...The difference in my average usage went from 165 kWh for the six months prior to purchasing the tub to 612 kWh after.   In other words in the six months after I installed the tub, I used an average of 1992 kWh, compared to the same six months last year where I used 1380 kWh, (so a difference of 612 kwH)  My electricity rates went up about an average of about $.01/kWh when comparing the six months following install compared to the previous year.  So this equates (using the average electricty rate since I've owned the tub) to about a $40 difference, or twice the "guaranteed" cost.  And I really don't use the tub excessively (2-3 time s'a week) or keep it that hot (101 deg) and it really hasn't been THAT cold here this winter, (Average temp for the last month has been in the upper 40s).  

Now is that $40 going to be a "deal breaker"?  Nope.  Am I going to unplug my tub?  Nope! I really am looking into this whole thing for two reasons:  1. I'm a stickler for keeping folks to their word. Especially salesmen.  If they would have not thrown that guarantee up and preached to it, and maybe just offered some estimates or figures for typical costs, I could have bought that. (I probably wouldn't have even asked)  2. (and more importantly) If a typicall tub really does do a better job, I wonder if there is something that could be better (i.e. wrong) with mine....

[Gomboman]

MX,

Are you saying that you use 612 Kwh more per month or for a six month period? You've lost me with your calculations.

612 Kwh per month does seem like a lot of electricity for a Vanguard. That would cost me about $120. Are you sure nothing else has changed in your household? Just be thankful that your electricity rates are very reasonable where you live. Where do you live?

I own a Vanguard.  My current electric rate is $.0793 / kWh.  Comparing the six months prior to owning the tub with the six months after (and looking at the same time periods the previous year to account for seasonal differences) and without going into standard deviations and such...The difference in my average usage went from 165 kWh for the six months prior to purchasing the tub to 612 kWh after.   In other words in the six months after I installed the tub, I used an average of 1992 kWh, compared to the same six months last year where I used 1380 kWh, (so a difference of 612 kwH)  My electricity rates went up about an average of about $.01/kWh when comparing the six months following install compared to the previous year.  So this equates (using the average electricty rate since I've owned the tub) to about a $40 difference, or twice the "guaranteed" cost.  And I really don't use the tub excessively (2-3 time s'a week) or keep it that hot (101 deg) and it really hasn't been THAT cold here this winter, (Average temp for the last month has been in the upper 40s).  

Now is that $40 going to be a "deal breaker"?  Nope.  Am I going to unplug my tub?  Nope! I really am looking into this whole thing for two reasons:  1. I'm a stickler for keeping folks to their word. Especially salesmen.  If they would have not thrown that guarantee up and preached to it, and maybe just offered some estimates or figures for typical costs, I could have bought that. (I probably wouldn't have even asked)  2. (and more importantly) If a typicall tub really does do a better job, I wonder if there is something that could be better (i.e. wrong) with mine....