Improving the FF equipment bay

[Vinny]

After Bosco's and my "experiments", I am impressed with the fact that Bosco's tub maintained the temp with just the filter cycles.

WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE FF VS TP DEBATE - is it possible to insulate the equipment bay of a FF spa to take advantage of the heat given off by the motor(s).

I went on-line and saw someone sells a 1/4" foil-foam-foil insulation roll with a R-14 value. Is it possible to put something like this into the equipment bay and have it insulate the area and NOT make the motors overheat in the summer.

I can only speak for my tub but the equipment bay has 3 bottom vents and a vent on either side. I do have a 3rd pump but have never seen it's configuration.

I would imagine that as long as the vent holes weren't covered up the motors won't overheat.

What's everybody think?

[Pathfinder]

You can purchase the Bubble foil at any industrial supply store  

Buy some bulk velcro strips put one side on the cabinet and the other on the foil   attach both sides and leave it  till spring  and unattach where you want venting for summer
Ive done this to multiple tubs for 7yrs  up here in Canada
it works well.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

"1/4" foil-foam-foil insulation roll with a R-14 value"

Vinny, rememner that phrase about reading and believing? Careful. Reflectiveness only insulates against radient heat loss. Radient heal loss isn't something considered in determinimg Rvalue. R value is ONLY the measurement of heat loss from conduction. And actually, foil conducts heat rather well  

Although, might this be foil faced ceramic insulation? That might be about the righ r value......... but vinny? $100 a square foot?

[NJDave]

Vinny,
I would not recommend adding insulation or foil to your equipment door area. Your equipment needs to breathe. If you insulate that area, you run the risk of your pump motor getting hot and going off on over load. Tp Spas have to have foil or foam on their cabinet because they are so poorly insulated on the shell. The foil or foam on the cabinet trys to keep heat in produced by the motors. With the lack of insulation on a TP Spa, they absolutely need the heat from the motors. Your full foam spa equipment area needs to breathe. Remember, your main pumps in the front door area of you Grand Cayman, are constantly getting warm water circulated through them, coming from the tube from the circ pump. So all of you components are being kept warm internally and yet the pumps are still able to breathe with fresh air in the compartment, which is far better for the equipment to be kept cool, instead of running hot all the time. Past the equipment chamber, your entire spa is protected 100% with full foam. Forget the aluminum foil, keep it in the kitchen. Dave.

[Vinny]

"1/4" foil-foam-foil insulation roll with a R-14 value"

Vinny, rememner that phrase about reading and believing?  ...

Doc, that's your specialty, I thought it sounded "a little" high!

[Vinny]

Vinny,
I would not recommend adding insulation or foil to your equipment door area. Your equipment needs to breathe. If you insulate that area, you run the risk of your pump motor getting hot and going off on over load. Tp Spas have to have foil or foam on their cabinet because they are so poorly insulated on the shell. The foil or foam on the cabinet trys to keep heat in produced by the motors. With the lack of insulation on a TP Spa, they absolutely need the heat from the motors. Your full foam spa equipment area needs to breathe. Remember, your main pumps in the front door area of you Grand Cayman, are constantly getting warm water circulated through them, coming from the tube from the circ pump. So all of you components are being kept warm internally and yet the pumps are still able to breathe with fresh air in the compartment, which is far better for the equipment to be kept cool, instead of running hot all the time. Past the equipment chamber, your entire spa is protected 100% with full foam. Forget the aluminum foil, keep it in the kitchen. Dave.

Dave, I was thinking out loud ... I was wondering about motors overheating and I really don't want to take the insulation off in the spring and reapply it in the fall. I guess the thing to say is if the manufacturer didn't do it why should I!

I promise I won't redesign my spa!

[Cola]

My Epic is FF and has an uninsulated equipment cabinet.  It has vents as well as a cutout with a louvre for the exterior light.  I removed the light fixture (don't want it) and installed two sheets of subfloor paper (like cardboard without the corrugations) as a crude insulator.  I will pull these out in the spring.  This will provide better insulation in the winter for the sensitive electronics as well as keep blowing snow out.  Considering that one pump runs on low twice a day for two hours, I am hadly concerned about overheating.  The mfg. has designed this for worst case heat load which for me is between May and September, longer for southern tubs.  Proper ventilation is a must but only when it is required.  The control cabinet is not insulated on the floor and excessive heat will likely be pulled into the tub from the flow of water.  The ozoneator is also pulling in cabinet air when the filter pump is running regardless of ozone output.  So my opinion based on experience is that you are OK to insullate this compartment as long as you remove it in the warm months.

[NJDave]

Good to Hear Vinny. They put those vents there for a reason. Like cola stated the biggest concern is in the summer, when the outside temperatures really begin heating up, the underside cabinet area could get up to 140 degrees or more, without proper ventilation. We do deal with pumps going off on overload. In the summer, if pumps do run excessively hot, the water temperature in the spa begins to rise, to temps much warmer than what people want them to be, sometimes as much as 108 degrees and that is with the heater turned off. Even in the winter your equipment chamber is quite warm, with heat coming off your circ pump running 24 hours and the heater. Ventilation in the equipment chamber is important 12 months a year, for the longevity of your equipment. No redesigning necessary. Enjoy.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Doc, that's your specialty, I thought it sounded "a little" high!

Well, it is, and it may not be. Depends on the parameters of the actual test. The building industry is the only industry required to follow ASTM standards for testing R value. ASTM standards aside, you can change the parameters of the test to give just about any R value you want.

Testing is done by separating a space with the material and heating each side of the space to a predetermined temperature. ASTM standards call for the difference in temps to be 40 degrees. If you raise the differential the resulting R value increases. I would guess, if the differential was high enough, you could get R-14 from a single sheet of paper.......... If it didn't ignite first  

[Vinny]

Dave and Doc,

I have an engineering background (3 years of college towards an Electrical Engineering degree - then life took over) and repair medical equipment for a living.

I am ALWAYS looking to improve things, you guys have to see what I do when I do home projects.

[Tman122]

There are winter kits available for many brands but they are recommnded for colder climates. As in Northern Minnesota. And they need to be removed when it gets above a certain temp. I wouldn't worry about motor compartment overheat if it was January or February in Minnesota but as March approachs and the temps start to get above freezing the winter kit should be removed. I have a winter kit I install in my tub every fall early winter and it consists of a R12 door insulation panel and an overlapping vent cover. Before I installed a cooling fan I used it exclusivly. Now I can leave the equipment bay fully sealed and insulated as the fan will turn on automaticly if the equipment bay reaches 120 degrees. Most times it only gets as high as 90-100 and this only after 4 hours of filtration. In the summer I consistantly record 105-115 during 2 hours of filtration. On really hot days I can get 120 and above but as the fan kicks on and outside air goes across the motor the temp drops below the set point very quickly. I very seldom see fan engagment even during summer.

That big lake 1/2 mile down the road tends to keep it below 80 here.