What does really high Bromine do?

[Bonibelle]

I think my Spa frog will be going into hibernation. Just when I think I have things figured out, and my water is beautiful....something goes haywire. Here's what happened...The tub got cloudy (my bromine cartridge is realtively new- a little over 1 week old) and it happened so fast. I test every other day. Anyway, the bromine level was about 0, so I put in bromine let it circ all day and then shocked. The bromine was off the charts. I took the *&^% frog cartridge out (although I wonder if it was working anyway since the bromine was sooo low) and ran the jets with the cover open for a long long time (I turned my temp down so not to keep heating water all that time). When my husband got ready to go out last night, it was still reading >10 on the strips. He went in anyway. I could smell the bromine on him when he came out. What is the danger of going in the water with such a high level of bromine? Bosco, I know you said you go in when the levels are high, but when it makes your eyes smart? ...that is too high. I wouldn't let the kids in and I made him shower. I told him he would bleach out his Italian tan in all that bromine!

[Bill_Stevenson]

Bromine is a halogen - that means a very strong chemical compound.  It is a poison in addition to being a sanitizer (which is stuff that kills bugs/microbes).  The idea is to have just enough of this chemical in the tub to kill the nasties, but not so much in there as to kill the people (only slightly exaggerating here to make a point).  High concentrations of halogens can cause serious skin irritation too.

Making your husband shower was a very excellent suggestion.  He really should not get into the water with such a high concentration of bromine.  Kids are more likely to ingest some water, too, so you also did the right thing by keeping them out.

You were right, which might be tough to take.  Show them all this message and I will take the heat for you.  ;-)  BTW, I am a chemical engineer.

Regards,

Bill

[Bonibelle]

Thanks so much Bill. I talked with my dealer today and he offered good suggestions and I guess I will stick it out with my frog for now. When the level gets too high (and I was wrong, it was >20 on the strips), hubby will just have to just take a hot bath ...or something!

[cappykat]

I don't know anything about water chemistry and how it all works, but I'm wondering what your pH is/was?

When my bromine levels got high my pH was also high.  I did the same thing...ran the jets for a period with the cover off.  I also added pH down...don't remember how much, whatever the instructions said.  Seems like it was 2-3 teaspoons.  That brought the pH down and the bromine down.

[Bonibelle]

Hi Cappy, I do a lot of ph down, you are right they do seem to be related. I am also always adding alkalinity up. It just seems to me that the bromine is sneaky!
I wish that the reminder to change the cartridge on the tub was tied to the number of times the filter cycle ran instead of a timed schedule (days). If I understand right, the frog system allows bromine to go into the spa when the filter cycle goes on. So the more filter cycles, the faster the cartridge would empty. Right? I am going to continue for a while to try to master the frog..I really hate that... when amphibians outwit me!

[cappykat]

That's right about the bromine being released.  In fact, I just read somewhere that everytime you use the jets or the filter cycle bromine is released.  That being the case no wonder they only last 2-3 weeks.

Like I said, I plan to pry the things open and refill them.  Of course, as many time as that advise has been posted everywhere whoever the manufacturer is will probably find a way to make it impossible to do it.  

[HotTubMan]

Be careful making balancing adjustments when your bromine or chlorine is high.

High bromine or chlorine may do one of two things to your pH test.

1. Give a false high. This condition is know as phenol purple, some times the phenol red (pH reagent) reacts with sanitizer and turns purple (not wine, but a bright purple).

2. Give a false low. Chlorine and bromine have the ability to "bleach" your pH test, TA test and in extreme cases your br/cl test.

If your bromine or chlorine seems quite high, ignore your other test results until the sanitizer level comes down.

[bosco0633]

I have gone in at high levels before.  The only difference is that I smell a little when I get out.  I have never had an irritation since using the tub.

Just wondering if the frog system has dial to turn down amount being released.  I find that keeping my floater at 4 in 500gal tub has been great.  It is a little less than recommended, however, I find this helps me.  It stays well withing the safe amount, and if it ever drops a little low, I add some shock to the tub and it bumps the level up for me.

Alk up, seems to be the most used chemical when using bromine, but 10.00 every 6 weeks does not seem to effect my budget that much.  

Bonn, you are going to get in a routine, where you know your tub and water.  Give it some time and you will have it down to a science.  

I am not a chemical expert but I can tell you from my own use that high bromine never effected me.

my two year old has been in at high levels with no problem.  The only thing I do notice with him is that his skin gets dry sometimes.  I would not worry about it, but maybe get rid of the frog and try just a floater.  I would say that you may have more control over your bromine.

[Bonibelle]

Thanks everyone! The bromine is gone this morning. Unbelievable but 0 today no level my strips. So I put a new frog cartridge in set at 2. I turned on the #1 jet and will see just how high it goes on the initial addition of a new cartridge. All my other levels are in acceptable range. I guess the best way to get bromine down is bather load since it doesn't seem to "gass off" like other sanitizers with jets and air on. (or at least that hasn't helped me). I am going to keep a log of this and see if I can figure out what I am doing wrong. In theory, the frog should make things easy, maybe it is just me making this stuff hard. And Hottubman, thanks for your post, I thought maybe by adjusting those other things, I could bring the bromine down. I won't do that anymore.  :-/

[fletch49]

I have gone in at high levels before.  The only difference is that I smell a little when I get out.  I have never had an irritation since using the tub.

You have to wonder about the long term  carcinogenic effect of a halogen?? Skin is a very porous membrane.

I don't think anyone can definitively tell what the long term effects of many carcinogens are such as bromine in the doses that we are talking about (10-20 ppm)

Not for the acute effects, but for the chronic effects, I'd tend to want to avoid water that has a reading of 10+ ppm.

[Bonibelle]

I'm with you Fletch but my husband calls me the Spazo Woman and thinks I worry needlessly about stuff like that, so he will still go in. My goal here is to avoid having levels >10 so we won't have that issue anymore!

[dpgtech]

Bather load certainly determines the amount of bromine that is used up.  the more people in, the more contaminents we bringin, the more bromine gets used up.  shock or oxidizer also plays a role in determining bromine levels.  you can test and find very little to no bromine level on your strip, and then shock and find the level to be acceptable to high.  try and oxidize the water even just a little bit before you test to get the truest bromine reading.