Hot Tub rash, where does it come from?

[J._McD]

Pseudomonas aeruginosa: commonly know as Hot Tub rash, what is it and where does it come from?  A rod shaped bacterium that lives in soil or decomposing organic material, some of which are pathogenic to plants and animals.

We all talk about how and why we need to SANITIZE the water, so we don’t get infected, but wouldn’t it be interesting to know where it comes from and how it unknowingly gets into our Hot Tub? If we know how to kill bacteria and viruses in Hot Tubs (chlorine, bromine, ozone, silver ions, baquaspa etc.), do we know where the bacteria comes from and how they enter the water to multiply and infect us?  

These bacteria are common inhabitants of soil and water and can be picked up from the grass. They occur regularly on the surfaces of plants and occasionally on the surfaces of animals.  The bacterium is ubiquitous in soil and water, and on surfaces in contact with soil or water.

IF the Hot Tub is sanitized and has no bacteria present, and someone gets out to get their rubber duckie or a beverage and returns back into the spa, they can/will infect the spa from what they pick up on the bottom of their feet.  We all know, at a certain point, the sanitizer is consumed and users are then subject to infection.  

A busy spa needs active sanitizers.  Best advice is get in, stay in.  Traffic in and out of the Hot Tub calls for the use of more sanitizer.

[East_TX_Spa]

Good advice and an informative post.  That's why this is the best spa-related forum on the internet.

Terminator

[loneoak]

Is it possible that some rashes could be caused by the chemicals themselves?

Astrid.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Is it possible that some rashes could be caused by the chemicals themselves?

Astrid.

While pseudomonas may be the #1 cause of  the appearance of rashes, the majority of what appears to be a rash is caused by something else.

[Bonibelle]

Great post! I was kind of amazed at first when I found out that P. A. was the most common contaminant. I thought, possibly, skin organisms. I think that the P.A. is able to cause problems because the abrasiveness of the jetted water and some of the chemicals remove the skin's natural protection against opportunistic organisms.  I know that I always thoroughly flush my hose before refilling my tub and shock after the addition of water for the same reasons.   :-/

[J._McD]

Is it possible that some rashes could be caused by the chemicals themselves?
Astrid.

I would say anything is possible, but more often than not, people will interpret the effects of a rash or bacteria to be a sensitivity to chemicals.  These experiences lead some to believe they have a sensitivity to chemicals when it is really the lack of chemicals that allows the presence of bacteria.  The best advice here is to get and do a bacteria test of your water periodically just for your own edification.

While pseudomonas may be the #1 cause of  the appearance of rashes, the majority of what appears to be a rash is caused by something else.

If pseudomonas is #1, the majority of what appears to be a rash is caused by what?

[Mendocino101]

While I have attended several classes on Hot water chemistry ...there is still so much to learn.....I have a question we know that in order for a sanitizer to work to its maximum effectiveness it needs to operate in a certain Ph range .....what happens when someone who is continually adding the sanitizer yet does not shock or who's Ph is way out of range ....are they someone who while having a large residual of sanitizer it is of little use because of the other imbalances ....

[loneoak]

How do you do a bacteria test?  

Astrid.

[Bonibelle]

The way that I would do a bacterial test would be to take a sample of the water ( a known volume) in a sterile container that had an appropriate inactivator for the sanitizer. Then filter the water using a membrane filter (0.2 micron membrane). The filter would then be placed on a plate of sterile agar and incubated at optimal temperatures for bacterial growth (30-35 degrees C). After about 3-5 days you would see growth (maybe sooner) Because you know the volume of water, you could calculate the approximate organisms/ml. Then you would have to have a microbiologist  identify the organisms! Since there probably is always a low level of bacteria in the tub, you wouldn't know what to do with the quantative results.  By the time this is complete, the entire chemistry of your tub has probably changed. Since my husband manages a microbiology lab for a pharmaceutical company, we could do this and had originally thought of doing it at least out of curiosity as to the typical bioburden of the tub. But, I really don't think it would be worth the trouble unless you had a persistant problem that would not resolve with disinfection. Or unless your really wanted to rule out bacteria as the cause of skin problems. It is really a catch22, too many chemicals you get a reaction, too little chemicals, you get bacteria.
We need an invention .....mmmmm. Is this the thing Hot Springs is working on Term?  The health department in your town might do a potable water test for you, if you really wanted to know if you have bacteria in your tub.  :-/

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

If pseudomonas is #1, the majority of what appears to be a rash is caused by what?

Everything else........

In no paticular order, probably not all spelled correctly, and not a complete list;

sensitivity/allergy to chemicals
Grovers disease
unbalanced pH
schistosomes
Dermatitis
excema
Leptospirosis
Toxoplasmosis
Salmonella
Austrobilharzia variglandis
avian schistosome
ring worm

[Bonibelle]

Ok, Dr., but aren't all of these critters also  possibilities for people who have swimming pools?  What I mean is there can be a load (bioburden) of bioterristic critters in your tub,  or your pool. I think that you can tolerate a much higher level of contamination when your natural barrier(skin) is not challenged by heat and agitation. So isn't it possible that some people just develope a rash from the drying effects of the hot water and the aggitation of the jets? The bacterial stuff is secondary?

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

So isn't it possible that some people just develope a rash from the drying effects of the hot water  

Covered by these;

Grovers disease
excema

So isn't it possible that some people just develope a rash from the aggitation of the jets?  

AH-HA......... thank you, I forgot this one and will add it to my list.

[J._McD]

Everything else........

In no paticular order, probably not all spelled correctly, and not a complete list;

sensitivity/allergy to chemicals
Grovers disease
unbalanced pH
schistosomes
Dermatitis
excema
Leptospirosis
Toxoplasmosis
Salmonella
Austrobilharzia variglandis
avian schistosome
ring worm

doc, your a wealth of knowledge, now how about you tell the good folks here how to detect them, where they come from and how to get rid of them.  

I was trying to help with the most common #1 problem and you want to cover them all.  Well, I'll let you have the floor so you can help the good folks that are lurking and reading here.

Based on your input, I think Ii am going to fill my spa with gasoline and set it a fire to get rid of all that stuff.  And, just when I thought is was safe to go back in the water.

I am sorry folks, but the doc seems to have a point here.  Maybe there is far too much to fear and to be aware of.  But, then maybe he can help us now with some added information.  I really never knew there was soooo much to fear.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

 I really never knew there was soooo much to fear.

And all of this, just a micro percentage of what can go wrong in life. Remember, look both ways before crossing.

"I was trying to help with the most common #1 problem and you want to cover them all."

As I read your original post, it is titled "Hot Tub rash, where does it come from?" and begins, "Pseudomonas aeruginosa"...... Never does it mention anything else might be the cause of a rash. As I read it, it looked like the messaage was that Pseudomonas was the only culprit.

"Well, I'll let you have the floor so you can help the good folks that are lurking and reading here. "

I believe I have already done just that.

[Gomboman]

OK, I thought Pseudomonas was generally caused by contaminated spa water? I believe one spa owner on this site got a new spa from contracting Pseudomonas from stale water trapped in the pipes of their new spa.

I'm confused, is Pseudomonas generally caused from contaminated spa water or from another source--like another person with Pseudomonas? Are there any microbiologists or medical doctors here that can explain how you can get Pseudomonas in layman's terms? I guess I'm still confused.