hot tub wiring

[chaunceyboyblu]

this morning the electrician hooked the hot tub wiring up to the jacuzzi j 385 that was brought out yesterday. a small box with a switch on and off in it was hooked up to the 10 ft big cord that was on the jacuzzi. this cord had four wires in it with only three being used. 6/3 wire was attatched to the switch box and ran into the house attatched to a 50 amp breaker. I read in the manual that a gfi should be used, but both the electrician and the guy who sold it to me said that the tub is built with that protection already. Should I have the electrician back out to instal one?
robert

[water@104]

when i had mine hooked up i had a GFI breaker put in just for  peice of mind. it doesn't hurt to have extra protection when it comes to electricity.

[tonyp]

I read in the manual that a gfi should be used, but both the electrician and the guy who sold it to me said that the tub is built with that protection already.

Two GFIs are probably not a good idea.  I doubt that would offer more protection and may offer less.

However no GFI is a very, very, very BAD idea.  I would confirm with the manufacturer that the tub has a GFI built in.  If the manual says you need one, I'd be pretty sure that it doesn't.  You are putting yourself and anyone else near your tub at risk of electrocution.

[Brewman]

Is this  a new spa or a used one?

If New:
This spa DOES NOT have built in GFI protection.  Check out your owners guide, or your pre delivery manual.  It clearly states that this spa needs to be connected to a GFI Breaker.  

If it is wired to a non GFI breaker, which is exactly what it sounds like, then you are taking a huge risk of electrocution.

You say you read in your manual that a GFI is needed.  IF this is the case, then there is no GFI built into the spa.  The manual wouldn't specify to provide a GFI breaker if there was one built in.  No value what so ever in doubling up on GFI protection.  

Don't use the spa until that issue is resolved.


Lecture Part II-

Are electrical permits required in your locale?  Almost everywhere in the US they are, especiall for pool and spa wiring.  I'd be willing to bet that this electrician didn't pull a permit, and didn't get his work inspected.  There should be 2 inspections (usually).  One is a rough in, where the wiring is checked before it is covered up.  If that passes, a final inspection is needed to power up.  
That's how it works in most places.

If permits are required, and one wasn't obtained, then I'd seriously question the credentials of this electrician.
Any moderately competent inspector would have caught the GFI issue on the rough in inspection.  And a competent electrician would have known to put in a GFI breaker, or at least asked to see the wiring requirements.  They do vary by spa brand.

Then I'd do some a*s whoopin at your dealer.  If they told you wrong, they need to know it.  And if it is true that your spa has no built in GFI, then I wonder how many dangerous installs they have out there.

Sorry for the long post, but this is potentially life threatining.

[keating]

You say you read in your manual that a GFI is needed.  IF this is the case, then there is no GFI built into the spa.  The manual wouldn't specify to provide a GFI breaker if there was one built in.  No value what so ever in doubling up on GFI protection.  

Hey Brewman, sorry for diggin up old skeletons, but I was reading through old posts and came across this.

I have to disagree with your comment above.
If the tub has 15 GFCIs built into it, you're still at GRAVE risk of electrocution......if for some reason a GFCI built into the tub trips, there's probably some issue....forexample, power could be leaking to ground int the spa.....YAY the GFCI saved you......now you step out onto the wet deck/pad and you still have a live 50A/240 line pumping power away to the least restrictive path.

Dunno about where you live, but in Canada, NEC specs require GFCI protection for minimum of 10ft from any point at the tub.....so even if the tub is internally GFCI protected, you need to have GFCI protection for all cabling within 10ft  the tub.....ie, a GFCI breaker/cutoff in a panel 10+ feet from the tub, or in the main panel upstream.

[Spa_Tech]

Two GFIs are probably not a good idea.  I doubt that would offer more protection and may offer less.

It makes no difference how many GFCI's you have in line. It simply is an unnecessary expense. You are correct though, you do need at least one.

Most modern spas do NOT have onboard GFCI's and a spa subpanel with GFCI protection will render the electrical circuit 'safer'...

[johnnythunders]

a small box with a switch on and off in it was hooked up to the 10 ft

Think thats the box you want thats 10 feet from your spa...JohnnyT

[Snowbird]

We have most of the wiring done for the J385.

We ran a 60 amp breaker off the main panel; then 65 feet of copper 6/3 with ground into a sub-panel with a 60A GFI breaker.  From here it goes 15 feet directly to the tub.

As far as we know, there is no GFI built into the tub.  My dealer is pretty good and would have told me about it.  

Consider this: The tub calls for 40A, 50A or 60A service.  How would they know which size GFI your electrical service entrance can support?

We asked our dealer why there was such a wide range of breakers and they told us they have been asking Jacuzzi to remove the 40A and 50A recommendations for the J385.  The dealer recommends 60A because when everything is running at the same time they have found some degradation of performance.

If your service panel can take it, put in a 60a.  This June we had a 200A service put in so we went with 60A.  The difference in cost is minimal.  The sub-panel has room for 2 additional breakers that I plan to use for stereo, TV and some track lighting.

[keating]

a small box with a switch on and off in it was hooked up to the 10 ft

Think thats the box you want thats 10 feet from your spa...JohnnyT

Yes, assuming that box or the panel UPSTREAM (further away from tub) has a GFCI in it.....GFCI built into the tub only, is NOT sufficient for NEC in Canada, if it is in the US, then you'd better be careful, cuz it ain't safe.

[johnnythunders]

I am sure that they have GfCI on the side of their spa but they don't know what that box is lol.Jt

[spaman--]

You should not use multiple gfi's in conjuction with one another it will cause one or both to fail and become defective.