. PH problems

[ssbraun]

I am having a heck of a time keeping my PH in check...the TA is fine (confirmed by my dealer at 115); chlorine is normal; hardness is normal.  Each day, however, when I check PH it is at the top of the scale at around 8.2.  I add PH decrease until it is correct at 7.4 (again confirmed by my dealer), but the next day it's up again.  It also takes 2 of the highest dose acid additions recommended by the chem manufacturer to get it down.  What gives??  My dealer had no clue, said he wishes everyone's water looked so good.  It is crystal clear, also, and only about 10 days old with light use.  Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!

Steve

[windsurfdog]

I'm not sure what's causing your pH rise but you might try using unbuffered MPS as a shock--its pH of 3-4 would help bring pH down while shocking at the same time.  I've starting using this method of pH decrease exclusively over dry acid with great results though I don't experience the same high pH problems you describe.

[Rayman]

you say the dealer has checked your TA, this may be a stupid question but has the dealer checked your PH or are you testing it?  And what are you using to test it (strips, taylor etc.)?  If you are the one testing it how long are you waiting to read the results?

Ray

[orlandoguy]

I had a ton pf ph problems as well.  Well, tons in my impatient mind.

The only thing that worked for me was the tedious task of testing, adding an ounce of ph down, retesting in a half hour, then adding another ounce until it got good.  Since then it has needed very little adjusting, thang goodness.

I forget who said I had to do that here, but it was confirmed by the little chemist at the pool store who I like and trust, so I did it.

[wmccall]

What is your PH when you start out with fresh water? WSD's suggestion is a good one.

[ssbraun]

Rayman, no such thing as a stupid question! (that's what I tell my students, anyway )  I am using phenol red, allowing gases from the jets to settle for several hours prior to testing, drawing my sample from about 18" below the surface, and allowing the sample to cool for about 15 minutes...I get the same reading as the dealer (I had it down to 7.4 yesterday; dealer got same result)  One more thing I found during my ongoing quest for knowledge is that chlorine will drive the PH up, not down as I read somewhere else previously.  Any feedback on this?  I am keeping my chlorine on the high side (about 5 ppm) as would a commercial spa since my little "incident" with pseudomonas (which may or may not be resolved... )

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!!

Steve

[ssbraun]

What is your PH when you start out with fresh water? WSD's suggestion is a good one.

The city water has a PH of about 7.6.

SB

[tonyp]

I always have trouble getting my Ph down.  I usually adjust it slowly over a few weeks since it seems to take a while to settle after an adjustment.  I attribute this to the high alkalinity and calcium hardness from my well.  I'll have to test my raw water if it ever stops raining.

[tony]

What are you using for chlorine?  Dichlor has a pH of 7.0 and is the most neutral.  Any other chlorine can have dramatically high or low pH and affect your water accordingly.

[ssbraun]

I am using dichlor, although a new (and as yet unopened) container of chlorine I bought says it is lithium hypochlorite instead of the sodium dichlor I've been using.  I bought it from a different dealer than the last batch.   I never even thought to question the contents assuming the saleperson knew what my spa needs. Should I return it?

[vlady]

My ph was off the scale.  I called my dealer and she told me to add the ph down, wait 30 minutes, test it.  If it was still up repeat the same steps.  

It took most of the day but it finally started moving down and once I got it adjusted I've not had to do anything to it since.

Good luck!

[windsurfdog]

One more thing I found during my ongoing quest for knowledge is that chlorine will drive the PH up, not down as I read somewhere else previously.  Any feedback on this?

Consider dichlor with a pH of 7.0 and you are trying to keep your pH around 7.4-7.6......the dichlor will indeed cause pH to inch down--ever so slightly.  There is no way it would cause it to increase unless you used something other than dichlor.

I am using dichlor, although a new (and as yet unopened) container of chlorine I bought says it is lithium hypochlorite instead of the sodium dichlor I've been using.  I bought it from a different dealer than the last batch.   I never even thought to question the contents assuming the saleperson knew what my spa needs. Should I return it?

Absolutely!  Don't use any other type of chlorine in your tub other than dichlor.

[ssbraun]

In summary:  I'm still using dichlor (ph 6.0 - 7.0 depending on what you read) ; my TA is 115-120; free chlorine levels are staying between 5 and 10 ppm (10 when I shock with dichlor) ;  I have been patiently adding 2 strong doses (per instructions) of ph down each day to bring ph from 8.2 down to 7.4-7.6.  I have confirmed my readings with the dealer by bringing him a sample and his numbers are identical; my city water has perfect ph of 7.6; the tub is getting limited use (since I'm spending all of my "free time" trying to get the ph down )...any other causes of ph increase??

Steve

[hymbaw]

I am using dichlor, although a new (and as yet unopened) container of chlorine I bought says it is lithium hypochlorite instead of the sodium dichlor I've been using.  I bought it from a different dealer than the last batch.   I never even thought to question the contents assuming the saleperson knew what my spa needs. Should I return it?

Yes, return it. LithHypo is generally used for POOLS. It is cheap, but it is HIGHLY volatile. Mixed with another type of chlorine(in its dry form) will cause an explosion. In addition it is a relatively weak formula (about 35% available chlorine). It's ph is in the 10.5 range which wont help your high ph readings. For your spa, stick with DiChlor.  And AVOID a dealer that would suggest LithHypo for your spa.

[ssbraun]

Holy CRAP ... I was going to put the last few tablespoons of dichlor into the new container, until this forum (Thanks Tony) caused me to check the chlorine type (I assumed dichlor, as this is a reputable dealer, and it said for spa use on the package...I thought it only came as dichlor or trichlor which I know not to use).  I will now pay VERY close attention to package labels; and will NEVER mix two products! (Thanks Hymbaw).  Don't need any chemistry experiments in my kitchen

Steve