Great forum, newbie decided, hope this helps other

[PaulMc]

  Hey folks. I've lurked here for a while and gained a boatload of info from the posters here. So, many thanks to all of you. Just thought I'd let you know what I did and why if it helps owners and dealers.

 I'm in the east end suburbs of Toronto and have thought about a hot tub for years. My wife and one daughter mentioned it again a month or so ago and not knowing pricing I said I had 8 grand to put into it so if they could get us into a tub, all in, for that (Cdn$ so about 6500 US for most folks here) I'd do it. That meant electrical. pad everything.  I didn't think they could. They couldn't. But now I was more interested because of the work they put into it.

 Long story hopefully shorter, it will be about 14K Cdn (12.5 US) all in. We looked at Jacuzzi, HotSprings, Sundance and Sunrise among others. My wife just didn't like the look of the HotSprings and my daughter didn't like the dealer because he waffled on whether we should pay PST (in Ontario you don't and we knew beforehand) among otherthings. Nice tub but asthetics and confidence in dealer ruled it out. Jacuzzi dealer too far away and wet test was ok but not great for us little people. We were down to the Sunrise and Sundance. Realy liked the Sunrise dealer and would have bought one of theirs but the warranty on the Sundance is better and I'm a  worry-wart and we liked a couple things on the Sundance. We chose the Majesta. Unique selling features were the footjets and the cool down seat that will help my calf muscles after golf.

 Costs - 10,600 CDN (stereo, delivery, ozonator and start up kit), plus 740 or so GST (no PST). Concrete pad, haven't figured that out yet but I've allowed 500 dollars which with all the young lads coming over this weekend to do the labour should be more than enough. Electrical was a surprise. It will be about 2,200. I needed a new panel to support the GFCI and while I was at it I had them add some power to my garage which is really a woodworking shop, so it would have been about 2K just for the tub. So all in, it's just around 14,000. And I'll need a little more to extend the existing deck around the tub which will be about two feet away. Some day I'll have to post pics to my site that has some wood projects in it.

 This was tougher than buying a car. I did no real negotiation on price. I've bought my wife a car and myself a truck in the last year and I was just tired of the haggling. Don't know if either Sunrise or Sundance would have moved on their price but in an odd way I kinda don't care. A few hundred dollars was a small factor in the end.

  For you dealers out there... I knew nothing and appreciated facts. No fluff, no disparraging the competition but pointing out differences and stating the value you think they have is fine. I'll make the decision later. Most of us are newbies so we need some reassurance we caa maintain these things and the water... with your help of course. And don't ignore the younger people. My daughter (who worked summers for a pool/spa supplies company) is 23 and looks 16. She asked about supplies and the PST question. When the dealer waffled or would tell us the answer instead of she who asked... bad form, she wouldn't let us consider them. And I think dealers thought I was more serious when I came in with a pre-printed list of questions.

 Oh, and the ladies started the search at a Home Depot and then some spa places. When I told them about the comments on service and support I'd read here they were quick to see that a specialist and a local business was the way to go.

 Sorry to be so long winded. We get the electrical done on Tuesday and the tub delivery and hook up are Thursday. The weekend will be spent building the deck extension. I'm sure I'll be back with water questions.

Thanks to all who participate in the forum, this is just what I can do to giveback.    paul

[Backpains]

Congrats on chosing your tub! I'm sure you will be thrilled with the sundance hot tub you purchased. Unfortunately, buying a hot tub is a pricy affair, it's not to be entered into lightly nor is it a have to have type purchase it's a luxury and the prices show it. You will, as soon as it is delivered and your up to your neck in hot water, forget totally about the expense. Your first soak will be well worth it! Again congrats and I truly hope your spatopia is a great one!  

BP

[JcDenton]

Congrats Paul! I know that purchase/start-up/electrical/pads/chemicals etc etc can at times feel a little duanting. But take it from me, after all is said and done and you're sitting in the tub with your wife and/or family, you'll soon forget how much you paid for it all.

It's one of the best purchases we've ever made. My wife and I are now hottub demons!

Jc

[J._McD]

Congratulations Paul and thank you for the insight.  Your comment about, "A few hundred dollars was a small factor in the end" is truely and honest evaluation, thank you again.

For all of those shopping that are lurking in the background, there are a lot of things that are more important than "a few hundred dollars".  Of course, there are those, who will walk out the door over a few hundred dollars, so I don't mean to slight price or money in any way, but is it really the biggest issue or the main point?  

Paul, I know, and so do we all, that you and your family are going to enjoy your Hot Tub and will consider it to be one of the best things you have ever purchased.  Thank for taking the time to be an informed buyer.  Your advance team did a good job and you showed up with and understanding of what you needed to know.  I am glad we were all part of it.

NOW, put that bottle of wine in the fridge, for you and the wife, and locate a few of those sweet smelling candles and get ready to get into HOT WATER.  Too bad you're gonna have to wait.

[Lori]

I'm going to bestow blessings of plenty of hot, clean, bubbling water!!!

Enjoy that new tub!  (In case I don't get a chance to stop by for a while!  Man, no internet access at work is hard!)

[SDguy]

Congratulations big guy!! Welcome to the family. It's great to hear of a new Sundance owner. That spa is a great choice. It's brand new to the Sundance line and it is getting great feedback. I wish you years of happy tubbing!!

[PaulMc]

  Thanks for the warm welcome folks. A couple of quick updates.

 We have a pad in place now. This weekend was a blur. I cleaned the existing deck Friday night and then waterproofed it Saturday morning before we went to my mother's 89th birthday down near Kingston. Got back late and got up early yesterday and got at it with a few young lads coming over to help, I've destroyed the lawn and had to remove a nice lilac bush but oh well. A long day but closer.

 Electrical happens tomorrow and they have moved the tub delivery up  to tomorrow as well so I'm hoping we can get our first soak after my son's baseball game Wednesday night. And the weather forecast has changed from thunderstorms tomorrow to just a late day rain.... maybe the man (or woman) up there isn't too mad at us for missing church yesterday... (knocking on wood).

 As to the financial and beverage hints you've given... I look at it like buying a car or a tool... if you've done your research on all aspects of the purchase and ownership, have set a realistic or acheivable financial budget and are happy with what you bought and who you are dealing with, then there is no reason to begrudge the money and you can enjoy. (although I could have spent less on this and then bought a nice new Unisaw to replace my old tablesaw but that's being saved for in another coffee can). And to show how thorough I can plan.. I stopped and picked up a case of wine on the way home Friday as it looks like the LCBO (Liquor Store up here) may go out on strike Thursday.

 Thanks again for the warm welcome.   paul

[drewstar]

 ... And to show how thorough I can plan.. I stopped and picked up a case of wine on the way home Friday as it looks like the LCBO (Liquor Store up here) may go out on strike Thursday.

  Thanks again for the warm welcome.   paul

I liquour  store on strike?  

Good lord man!  Just the thought of that sent shivers down my spine.  Let's hope they workers can get thier differences settled before things start to get too crazy.

No one panic.

Thankfully, the president has the authority to order stricking employees back to work if it's in the best interest of the nation.
(Remember Regan and the air traffic controllers?). Let's hope it doesn't get to that point, but just in case, I'd have my congressman's tel #'s handy).  

[brooksie]

 
I am just in the process of purchasing a hot tob and wondered why no PST (ontario) on it. I wasn't aware of that.

[Cola]

Brook, don't concern yourself too much with that.
The seller has to pay it on the wholesale price which means that they are marking up something that costs them more.  If they put it on your bill, you can argue at that point if you want.  They have to deliver it on to a permanent pad for this to apply.
Good luck

[PaulMc]

  Brooksie. No PST because although it's called a portable spa, it's considered a 'permanent' upgrade to your house. There was a reference in one of the forum entries that pointed to the government website that laid it out in case your dealer wants to charge you.

 As Cola mentions, there is Ontario PST charged to you, but it is charged on the purchase by the dealer as the item flows through them. So the tax is paid, and you ultimately pay it because it's part of the dealer's cost, just like shipping from the factory to there warehouse or store would be a cost they incurr. I'm making these numbers up of course but let's say on a 10k tub the cost of just the tub to the dealer is 7k, PST would be $560. They'd add that in to their shipping and all the other things that go into their costs and get to maybe 9k. That'd leave a margin of 1k for them to work with. If my dealer had charged me the tax I would have paid another $800. I don't believe that if they charge you the PST that they actually have to submit it, just submit what they owed on their original purchase from the manufacturer. So their margin went from 1k to 1,800.  

 I would worry about it, both since it's money in your pocket and goes to the integrity and/or understanding of the business that the dealer has. A HS dealer told us we were wrong and insisted we'd be paying it (well actually he implied I was nuts but that's a whole different story more related to finding a decent dealer). All the other dealers around here knew about it and were even quick to point it out if we didn't ask early in the pricing  discussion.  

 Good luck with your looking around. It's a great time up here to be soaking. Doesn't make me look forward to winter, but at least this year I can look forward to being in the tub in the snow.   paul

[brooksie]

 Thanks !  Was not aware of this and on looking at my contract  noticed it had been included in the total but NOT broken down on the bill. I will be making a call  looking for an explaination.

 Thanks again from another soon to be Optima owner.

  PS Any idea when the gov't info was mentioned

[PaulMc]

  Try looking at this site...

http://www.trd.fin.gov.on.ca/userfiles/page_attachments/Library/3/Rsie_In43.pdf?N_ID=3

 You may want to read the definitions of Temporary Personal Property and Real Property, but the key seems to be delivery and placement on a pad or where it will be permanently located. Having a contract that includes delivery and setup should cover that.

 If I read it right and understand what you're saying about how it's written in the bill, your dealer is doing it right if they list it as covered in the cost but it's not broken down as a seperate line item like GST is. They don't have to list the line item if they pay the PST, and they wouldn't want to, since if it would tell you what they paid the manufacturer for it.       paul

[brooksie]

 Thanks Paul for the site link will take a look at that.
My contract does include setup & deliver.I am putting it on patio stones not sure if that effect things?
The contract doesn't include an GST amount either. But  by working backwords from the total and by the amounts written in the description for the tub and extras it looks like they are charging me gst&pst.
No wonder they advertise no tax sales events!!

 Brooksie