HS Filters

[jsimo7]

And there it is.  Final results:

Terminator (Salesman)- Believes it is better to filter out debris before it enters the spa pump, heater, and plumbing.

Bill Stevenson (Engineer)- Believes it is NOT better to filter out debris before it enters the spa pump, heater, and plumbing.

And that's all that I have to say about that!  

Terminator

Very interesting.   This does not seem like rocket science

[Chas]

Having worked at NASA, I can vouch for the fact that EVERYTHING that flows through the systems of a rocket gets filtered first.

[stl-rex]

Sorry, I meant cartridge filters which filter by "depth" and advetise "equivalent surface area" instead of regular surface area is, to me, shady.

Especially when each depth doesn't have a progression of larger to smaller holes, as you described.

-Ed

"MicroPure filters are very porous.  In fact they will only drop 2 psi  from new to dirty. Since the filter is made up of caves and caverns there is about 900 sq ft of "surface" material exposed through the entire filter.  " from Filterguy in an earlier post.

"Lower density at the surface of the filter with progressively higher density towards the center." from the Micropure.ca website.


Curious why this bothers you so.  It appears to be logical and to put a quantitative number to how effective the filter is at removing contaminants both in particle size and efficiency.  Does it bother you because it provides marketing fodder or don't you believe in the product itself?  If you filter water through a 40 micron filter vs a 1 micron filter, which is more likely to have microscopic contaminants remaining?  Is it useful for a spa?  Don't we shed particulate matter under 40 microns that one will filter and the other will not?

[Wisoki]

You are correct sir!

Uh-oh!  Wait'll Wisoki reads this.  He'll be laughing at you like he did me.

Terminator

[mxw128]

Anyone know what he means by this?

When I remove the filters from their stand pipes and look through the center, 3 of the four Tri-X filters (my fifth filter is a standard filter) have a plastic tube with holes in it the runs the length of the filter.  Like the paper tube in a toilet paper roll.  I assume it is meant to help the filter keep its shape.  One of the filters does not have this.  I don't know if HS changed the way they build the filters, or if I got a dud.

[East_TX_Spa]

OMG, now that I have wiped the tears out of my eyes from belly busting laughter, I'd like to ask Chas a question. In you years in business, how many pumps have you had to replace? I'm sure Terminator meant only 8 pump replacements DUE TO DEBRIS getting in the pumps and causing mechanical seal failure. What about the others that have start capacitor failures, or bad windings, etc.? 8 whew, I thought I was going to hurt my self!

So, any idea how many pumps you've replaced?

Chas has done 6 in 20 years, we've done 8 in 21 years.  Of course, we've both stayed with a brand we think is the finest in the world the whole time.  I can't speak for Chas, but we have always had the utmost confidence in the brand we sell to our customers.  That's why we don't feel the need to switch brands on our customers on a regular basis.

I realize you've gone through 2 or 3 brands in the 9 months I've been here.  Which one have you had the most success with as far as pumps and which ones have you seemingly had trouble with?

Terminator

[Wisoki]

Sure, I'll take a guess. Lets set the record straight first. I opened Country Spas 07/2000 selling Jacuzzi brand. On or about 10/2003 Jacuzzi decided I wasn't moving enough spas for their liking and gave the line to some one else. Since then there have been 5 yes FIVE Jacuzzi dealers in this area, 4 of which have gone out of business and the current one that sells a brand which will remain nameless and has shelved the Jacuzzi product, keeping it on board soley for the brand name recognition. Smart move fellas(sarcasm for JPS sincerity for the dealer)! But I digress, I then took on Catalina, Up until 4/2005 when I was made an impressive offer by a dealer here to basicaly do what I do for my self and get paid for it. Those of you that are owners know what I'm talking about! So, in answer to your question, I will stick with the 2 brands I sold in my dealership. I have easily replaced 10 pumps on the Jacuzzi spas for varrious reasons, I have replaced zero pumps on the Cats, admitedly I have fewer of them in the field, but I get no calls on them for either flow problems or heater issues. I also carried Free Flow to hit the 1995 price point, and have replaced 2 pumps in those and have about 6 in the field. Additionally in reply to your remark, "That's why we don't feel the need to switch brands on our customers on a regular basis." Nor do or did I. The grand manufacturer in ALL their wisdom took care of that for me. So, all in all a rough estimate is in 5 years about 12 pumps.

So, any idea how many pumps you've replaced?

Chas has done 6 in 20 years, we've done 8 in 21 years.  Of course, we've both stayed with a brand we think is the finest in the world the whole time.  I can't speak for Chas, but we have always had the utmost confidence in the brand we sell to our customers.  That's why we don't feel the need to switch brands on our customers on a regular basis.

I realize you've gone through 2 or 3 brands in the 9 months I've been here.  Which one have you had the most success with as far as pumps and which ones have you seemingly had trouble with?

Terminator

[Guzz]

Have'nt been selling HS as long as some out there but we have replaced 2 pumps in 9 years, never even thought about it till this thread came up,... thanks

[East_TX_Spa]

So, all in all a rough estimate is in 5 years about 12 pumps.

Well, that ain't all that bad.  The way you were ragging on me, I got the idea that maybe you were replacing 10-20/year and that's why our success seemed so incredible to you.  Thanks!

Terminator

[J._McD]

We have replaced a lot of motors simply because they had a pump seal leak.  Instead of changing out the pump seal, which most manufacturers will not cover under warranty, we simply put a new pump in, but it is because of the pump seal.  

Unfortunately, we see too many pump seal leaks and a lot of it is caused by water chemistry, or customer neglect running the pumps without water.  I suppose we could tell our customer it's not covererd under warranty because of water chemistry or customer neglect and charge them accordingly, but we have never done that.  It has been our experience, when a pump seal leak is not detected in the early stages, moisture and chemicals gets back into the bearings and that is when the problems really begin to develope.

If the spa is out of warranty, we will change out the pump seal, but if it has been blowing moisture back into the bearings, the life of the motor has been shortened.

East_Tx_Spas, do you see many pump seals go?  I know we have serviced some HS for pump seals.

[salesdvl]

 HS makes a great product, but it is not the only game in town.  Caldera, Jacuzzi Premium, Sundown, Marquis, Master, Dimension One. to name a few, are equally excellent and have their own features and benefits.  This filtration difference is a red herring.    

Regards,

Bill    

I sold HS retail for 20 years and I couldn't agree more.  I stopped drinking the coolaid years ago and now that I work for a diff spa manuf. and travel to retail spa stores, I see alot of good spas out there.  I remember going to a HS sales seminar that was being taught by a former HS employee and his comment was similar: "Now that I am out working with other companys, I realize they are all just big boxes of hot water."

[Kyle]

I think everyone agrees that HS is a great spa.  But you've only bragged about the motor replacements or lack there of in 10 - 20 years.  How about the other 30-50 components?  How about heaters in 20 years?  How about circ pumps, flow switches, Moto-massages, etc.>  It's nice to talk about the quality in design, but don't get carried away with it.  

[stuart]

Having worked at NASA, I can vouch for the fact that EVERYTHING that flows through the systems of a rocket gets filtered first.

 

Is NASA  using Tri-X now...?

[East_TX_Spa]

I think everyone agrees that HS is a great spa.  But you've only bragged about the motor replacements or lack there of in 10 - 20 years.  How about the other 30-50 components?  How about heaters in 20 years?  How about circ pumps, flow switches, Moto-massages, etc.>  It's nice to talk about the quality in design, but don't get carried away with it.  

I'm sorry.  I didn't think it would be pertinent to make a list of the other 30-50 components.  Quite frankly, I'm very busy selling spas lately.

Heaters- Some of the older style had to be replaced.  Didn't cost the customer one red cent.  New ones are working great!
Circ Pumps- Maybe 20/ year
Flow Switches- No idea.  Personally, never been made aware of any problems since I've been here
Moto-Massages- Replace maybe 2 or 3/ year on older spas.  Maybe 5/ year
Etc- I have no idea

Gotta customer, gotta go!

Terminator

[Kyle]

You ought to have those 8 motors on display in your showroom.  That would be powerful.